New Caliber - 300 AAC Blackout
- Thread starter OnPointFirearms
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5.56 and .308 are all that's needed? I won't take that too far, but those two require two different actions. 5.56 is an ok round, but it lacks enough punch to reliably knock down larger game. .308 does that well, but at the cost of twice the recoil and 2 1/2 pounds more weight in the package.
But, use a 6.8SPC in the lighter AR15, which is done so much it's the #1 alternate caliber, and you have a 7 1/2# deer rifle that's easy to carry, uses a 16" barrel and gets the job done at ranges most hunters actually shoot. Those are all the reasons for the lever .30-30, too, and why it's the No.1 deer rifle in America for the last 100 years.
The AAC is applying the .30 to the 5.56 and enjoying many of the same benefits in the AR. Since I've already found the .308 and .30-06 to be more trouble to carry around than they are worth, I'm moving to the AR in intermediate calibers. It makes the combination more effective in a long days hunt.
But, use a 6.8SPC in the lighter AR15, which is done so much it's the #1 alternate caliber, and you have a 7 1/2# deer rifle that's easy to carry, uses a 16" barrel and gets the job done at ranges most hunters actually shoot. Those are all the reasons for the lever .30-30, too, and why it's the No.1 deer rifle in America for the last 100 years.
The AAC is applying the .30 to the 5.56 and enjoying many of the same benefits in the AR. Since I've already found the .308 and .30-06 to be more trouble to carry around than they are worth, I'm moving to the AR in intermediate calibers. It makes the combination more effective in a long days hunt.
Zanad
Member
you said cheap ammo, I have to ask,
how cheap?
will it be about what boxer-brass 7.62x39 is for price or will it be more?
If ammo is cheaper than .308, this may be a about what I'm looking for.
how cheap?
will it be about what boxer-brass 7.62x39 is for price or will it be more?
If ammo is cheaper than .308, this may be a about what I'm looking for.
Forster Products 300 AAC BLACKOUT reloading dies.
Full Length Sizing Die only, 300 BLK, Part # 005545
Standard Seating Die only, 300 BLK, Part #006205
Ultra Micrometer Seating Die only, 300 BLK, Part #U00099
Set of Full Length Sizing Die and Standard Seating Die, 300 BLK, Part #004453
Set of Full Length Sizing Die and Ultra Micrometer Seating Die, 300 BLK, Part #U04453
I resized Remington 300 AAC BLACKOUT cases with each of the following dies, and then put a metric pin gauge in each, to see the largest pin that would fit. The goal being to see which dies resized the cases to the optimal inside diameter for ideal bullet pull without over-working the brass.
Forster had the benefit of having both the factory drawings and factory fired and unfired 300 AAC BLACKOUT brass - and so they knew the neck-wall thickness.
Results:
Forster 300 AAC BLACKOUT die: 7.76mm (0.3055 inches inside diameter)
Reading 30-221 die: 7.74mm (0.3047 inches inside diameter)
Hornady 300 Whisper(R) die: 7.58mm (0.2984 inches inside diameter)
Been done before.
An what does Remington backing mean anyway. Remington was backing 6.8 and seems to have back away. 6.8 does have a following, and so does 6.5 grendel, so this one might last if there factory ammo and guns for it.
One of the arguments in the article cited is less case taper than 7.62x39 - as though this were a good thing. Case taper has been one of the arguments for the reliability of M43.
As noted, there only so much you can do within the AR platform. You can trade bullet weight for velocity and that's about it. Long range performance is likely to be worse than 6.8, which short range performance will likely be a tad better.
Just another trade off.
An what does Remington backing mean anyway. Remington was backing 6.8 and seems to have back away. 6.8 does have a following, and so does 6.5 grendel, so this one might last if there factory ammo and guns for it.
One of the arguments in the article cited is less case taper than 7.62x39 - as though this were a good thing. Case taper has been one of the arguments for the reliability of M43.
As noted, there only so much you can do within the AR platform. You can trade bullet weight for velocity and that's about it. Long range performance is likely to be worse than 6.8, which short range performance will likely be a tad better.
Just another trade off.
I agree that short range/short barrel performance is at best a 'tad' better than 6.8, BUT....
300 AAC BLACKOUT works with normal magazines.
It has a full 30 round capacity in a normal magazine.
It works with a normal bolt.
Only the barrel changes.
300 AAC BLACKOUT will have lower cost ammo than 6.8.
Case taper for 7.62x39 is only bad thing on ARs - due to it not working in the mag well, and due to increased bolt thrust breaking AR bolts. The AK has a much beefier bolt and a curved mag.
Remington backing means millions of rounds of affordable ammo is on the way.
300 AAC BLACKOUT works with normal magazines.
It has a full 30 round capacity in a normal magazine.
It works with a normal bolt.
Only the barrel changes.
300 AAC BLACKOUT will have lower cost ammo than 6.8.
Case taper for 7.62x39 is only bad thing on ARs - due to it not working in the mag well, and due to increased bolt thrust breaking AR bolts. The AK has a much beefier bolt and a curved mag.
Remington backing means millions of rounds of affordable ammo is on the way.
I think most people are missing the major point of this round. The 300 whisper or blkout is meant to shoot a really heavy high BC round really f'ing quietly. The Whisper/Blkout is cool because it uses less powder than the 308win and 7.62x39 to shoot the 240-220 bullet around 1100 fps which means it's going to be quieter when used with a suppressor. Thats it pretty much it. If you don't care about being a little extra quiet then it's probably not cartridge for you.
Zak Smith
Member
Actually it's more because it will cycle an AR-15/M4.
300 AAC BLACKOUT has 7.62x39 ballistics. I don't see people saying the only purpose of a 7.62x39 is to shoot quietly with a suppressor! There is more muzzle energy than 5.56mm and some people just don't like 22 cal. Also, it is legal to hunt with in more states than a .223.
So 300 AAC BLACKOUT is a 30 cal solution for the AR15 which retains the full 30 round magazine capacity and uses a standard bolt.
SharpsDressedMan
member
It's not going to replace the .308...it wasn't intended to. It's not going to replace the 7.62x39, as way too many people love their AK's. It isn't going to replace the .223, but it does give AR owners options. As stated, it does kick butt, and can do it more quietly than all the others. I like it.
I think it will replace the MP5 for some users.
I think it will replace the MP7 for some users.
I think it will replace the 5.56mm AR for some users.
And it will be good for home defense and hunting with an AR.
If it can make major, then it will be good for 3-gun competitors. I am working on this.
I think it will replace the MP7 for some users.
I think it will replace the 5.56mm AR for some users.
And it will be good for home defense and hunting with an AR.
If it can make major, then it will be good for 3-gun competitors. I am working on this.
HorseSoldier
Member
So if, say, 50% of MP7 users in the country switch to 30 AAC Blackout, that means about five, maybe six units sold?
Zanad
Member
should one have any problems going from shooting relatively light bullets to shooting the heaviest of the stuff? take barrel twist for example, do we have to have different barrels for what weight we want to shoot? what about buffer springs?
What's more???
But I am saying the 300 whisper/whatever you call it was designed for subsonic use. Yes, I know it can go supersonic with lighter rounds but I wouldn't want to have to qualify at the 500 yard line or make a 500 yard combat shot with a 155gr bullet that is going that slow, dropping that much, and that will move that much in the wind. I'm speaking from experience when I say that. I own a 300 whisper and did the whole fallujah, iraq thing. I love my 300 whisper and it has a purpose but a main combat round isn't it.
Zak Smith
Member
It's more compelling than .308 and 7.62 not because it's quieter with either full power or subsonic loads, but because it works in an AR-15 specifically subsonic.
The standard round for 300 AAC BLACKOUT is 123 grain and duplicates the 7.62x39 ballistics - which is by far the most successful assault rifle cartride of all time. And outside of combat, for LE and self defense, it has more energy than 5.56mm at the most common shooting ranges.
SharpsDressedMan
member
I can say this: I have owned a .300 Whisper/ .30-.221 for about 10 years now. It has a 1-8" twist, Douglas premium barrel, and given the limitations of loading subsonics (one is at pistol level loads with pistol powders), accuracy has been fantastic. Consistent accuracy is more difficult with subsonic loadings, but both subsonic and hypersonic loads give great accuracy. My 125gr Nolster Ballistic Tip loadings have easily been subminute, so I can verify that the 1-8 twist works pretty well with the range of bullet weights normally encountered. The quality of the loading, and the bullet, are the biggest factors...the gun will do its job.
R.W.Dale
Member
The 300aac keeps getting quoted as having the same ballistics as 7.62x39mm.
I've not found aac's numbers in this thread using 125 and 150 g bullets in 20" and 16" barrels.
So what are the aac's numbers?
I've not found aac's numbers in this thread using 125 and 150 g bullets in 20" and 16" barrels.
So what are the aac's numbers?
www.300aacblackout.com. I think it says 2315 fps for 123 grain from a 16 inch barrel. I should be able to give 20 inch data in 4 weeks.
TexasPatriot.308
Member
I am sure ammo will be everwhere, when the SHTF, I hope you got lots of this ammo on hand, ammo that so many other rounds will plentiful cause thaey are acommon round, you will have a nice looking rifle with no ammo, get ready to use it as a club or bayonet up...u spread yourself thin and it will come back haunt u and kick u in the a--. enjoy ur new rounnd...
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