New Caliber - 300 AAC Blackout

[Matt304]

Why wouldn't you just ackley improve a 7.62x39, and have a harder hitting straight round than this thing?

 

[rsilvers]

Submitted only.

Sounds like the 30 Grendel.

Remington is making ammo.
Wilson Combat is going to make ammo.
Company A will be making ammo.
Company B will be making ammo.
Company C will be making ammo.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

A big part of what AAC has done is finally push the AR-15 (.223 bolt face) compatible .30 round (now the AAC Blackout, formerly the .300 Whisper) into the public marketplace. J.D. Jones, developer of the Whisper, tried to keep his cartridge and all that went with it "proprietary", meaning he kept exclusive control of any sales related to the cartridge. Few other cartridge widcat developers have ever done that, and it stifled the popularity and use of a .30 AR platform round. AAC has now apparently tweaked it, and moved into the 21st century and brought it to the other manufacturers so tht it has mainstream availability. If consumers appear for the round, then weapons, cost, and availability will be close to that of the 6.8. It made no sense to me why a .300 Whisper rifle should cost 50-100% more than a comparable .223/5.56 rifle of the same design and materials, except for the desire by SSK to monopolize and attempt to charge just a little too much.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

The 110 VMAX does 3450 fps from a 16 inch barrel from 300 BLK.

Typo?

3450 fps or 2450 fps?

 

[Hani Pasha]

Can anyone tell me (in layman's terms) what the supersonic .300 AAC Blackout performs like at longer ranges, such as 300 to 800 yards? How does it measure up against rounds commonly thought of as more suited to ranges like that, such as the trusty .308?

 

[R.W.Dale]

Can anyone tell me (in layman's terms) what the supersonic .300 AAC Blackout performs like at longer ranges, such as 300 to 800 yards? How does it measure up against rounds commonly thought of as more suited to ranges like that, such as the trusty .308?

In laymans terms it will be better than throwing rocks.....but not much. This chambering beyond 300yds is about in the same league as using a 9mm handgun at 100

And this from a fellow who'se used 7.62x39 to hunt whitetail at ranges approaching 300yds

Now this is not to say this cartridge isn't going to be effective inside it's optimum performance/range envelope. It's just that using such a round for 300to800 yd shooting is like trying to use a tack hammer in place of a 7/16" line wrench.

 

[Zak Smith]

It's similar to 7.62x39, plus or minus.

This is to say that it's well suited to applications like the majority of white-tail deer hunting, which takes place mostly within 100 yards. Before we got so hung up on power, many deer were killed with .25 Remington and other cartridges we'd scoff at today.

There are plenty of cartridges that do this job well, and that there are many does not diminish the utility of any of them.

A lightweight carbine in .300 Whisper would be fine, handy woods deer rifle.

 

[rsilvers]

Sorry, I did mean 2450 fps for a 110 V-MAX from a 16 inch barrel. Federal rates their 357 Magnum ammo (C357E) at 539 ft-lbs at the muzzle (handgun). So 300 AAC BLACKOUT matches that at 380 yards.

At 100 yards, the 357 would be at 400 ft-lbs. So if you would shoot a deer with a 357 from a handgun at 100 yards, then you should be willing to do it with the 300 AAC BLACKOUT at 500 yards.

In laymans terms it will be better than throwing rocks.....but not much. This chambering beyond 300yds is about in the same league as using a 9mm handgun at 100

Actually a 9mm at 100 yards is 241 ft-lbs. The 300 AAC BLACKOUT has that much energy at 755 yards.

http://www.hornady.com/store/9mm-Luger-115-gr-XTP/

 

[jrumsey]

rsilvers :
Thanks for the info. I will be watching for SAAMI adoption and more ammo availability in the future. When do you expect 300 BLK head stamped brass be released, and more bullet types made for it's velocity range. Will the Redding 300/221 Remington dies work for reloading the 300 BLK.

Joe

 

[R.W.Dale]

Rsilvers please don't insult us with outlandish claims or padded ballistics comparisons. We are not your average clueless fudds here.

A .357 magnum carbine will easily push 800ft lbs at 100

Surely if you're in the ammo industry you know of the world of difference between shooting a handgun projectile designed for the velocities it's impacting at vs a rifle bullet well under it's optimum impact velocity even if the energy is similar.

Whitetail at 500 yds with a cartridge that only offers a little over 20% more power than 30carbine. REALLY????are you seriously that hard up to make a buck you'd advocate such blatantly irresponsible behavior?

At 500yds in as light as a 5 mph crosswind the 300blk 110g v-max load is pushing close to TWO FEET of wind drift

Posted on an iPhone via tapatalk

 

[rsilvers]

R.W.Dale - you said exact quote "This chambering beyond 300yds is about in the same league as using a 9mm handgun at 100"

I replied: "Actually a 9mm at 100 yards is 241 ft-lbs. The 300 AAC BLACKOUT has that much energy at 755 yards."

The fact is, you claimed 300 AAC BLACKOUT has a certain level of performance at 300 yards when in fact it has that level of performance at 755 yards.

 

[R.W.Dale]

R.W.Dale - you said exact quote "This chambering beyond 300yds is about in the same league as using a 9mm handgun at 100"

I replied: "Actually a 9mm at 100 yards is 241 ft-lbs. The 300 AAC BLACKOUT has that much energy at 755 yards."

The fact is, you claimed 300 AAC BLACKOUT has a certain level of performance at 300 yards when in fact it has that level of performance at 755 yards.

Is 755yds beyond 300?

what does about mean in the context above?

 

[rsilvers]

Is 755yds beyond 300?

what does about mean in the context above?

It seems like you are saying that 755 yards is about 300 yards. That is a 152% difference and I don't think any reasonable person would consider them about the same.

If you wanted to make a statement without being misleading then perhaps say: "This chambering beyond 750yds is about in the same league as using a 9mm handgun at 100"

 

[R.W.Dale]

It seems like you are saying that 755 yards is about 300 yards. That is a 152% difference and I don't think any reasonable person would consider them about the same.

If you wanted to make a statement without being misleading then perhaps say: "This chambering beyond 750yds is about in the same league as using a 9mm handgun at 100"

No I was being polite and attempting to not unnecessarily bash your invention with harsh rhetoric

I stand by my statement as what I was attempting to say POLITELY is that beyond 300yds the 300BLK is in the same league as a 9mm at 100 in that it's not going to work worth a crap. After all Hani Pasha asked for it in laymans terms.

And before you kick the marketing machine in high range I've used 30cal AR15 variants that outperform yours by a wide margin on targets and afield, take it form me they don't work worth a crap beyond 300yds. There's too much wind drift, too much time in flight and really NO 30caliber bullets that can be relied apoun to expand below 1600fps.

So please cut the hyperbole, just tell folks what your cartridge is good for but be honest enough to tell folks what your cartridge is NOT good for too. They will respect you for it and give what you say more concideration. Cause I assure you folks here have a very highly developed BS sniffer and the below quote is pure BS.

Who deer hunts with a 357 mag revolver at 100yds????

So if you would shoot a deer with a 357 from a handgun at 100 yards, then you should be willing to do it with the 300 AAC BLACKOUT at 500 yards.

Now if you want to compare apples to apples and compare 300blk carbine velocities to .357mag carbine velocities we can and I'll be more than happy to make the comparison in a friendly adult manner?

 

[rsilvers]

R.W.Dale - The 300 AAC BLACKOUT is not a long range caliber, but there is no comeback from your grossly misleading statement. Everyone sees it for what it is. You said that beyond 300 yds the 300BLK is in the same league as a 9mm at 100 when you should have said beyond 750 yds.

I would not hunt with a compact handgun at 100 yards, but you brought up 100 yard handgun with your 9mm comparison. I corrected that data and added in a 357 Magnum example.

take it form me they don't work worth a crap beyond 300yds. There's too much wind drift, too much time in flight and really NO 30caliber bullets that can be relied apoun to expand below 1600fps.

If you had said that the first time, it is reasonable enough that I would not have tried to counter it. From a 16 inch barrel, the 300 AAC BLACKOUT reaches 1600 fps at 330 yards. So the max range where the bullet would expand is about 330 yards.

Likewise, M193 from an AR15 16 inch barrel has a threshold of fragmentation max range of 160 yards.

http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/term_fragrange.html

 

[R.W.Dale]

If you had said that the first time, it is reasonable enough that I would not have tried to counter it. From a 16 inch barrel, the 300 AAC BLACKOUT reaches 1600 fps at 330 yards. So the max range where the bullet would expand is about 330 yards.

I had no intention of being misleading, I was merely trying to be polite.

The 300 AAC BLACKOUT is not a long range caliber,

You know it's not such a bad thing to claim that performance on game wise it's very similar to 7.62x39 or a 357 carbine That fires from the ar15 platform and is suitable for all the same critters at the same ranges. Then pointing out the icing on the cake that is uses STD .223-5.56 mags and bolts as well as a nice normal dirt cheap piece of brass.

Heck just seeing it written out that way makes me kinda want one. You might think about developing a load that uses a 150 or 170g 30-30 bullet as fast as you can get it to go. That might be an excellent seller for hunters wanting a cheaper loading to use on deer at traditional lever gun ranges. I don't know what the case capacity of the 300blk is but I had 7.62x39 loads that would do 1920fps from a 16" bbl with the 170g hornady FP, if BLK will do similar that it would indeed do everything 30-30 would in terms of putting deer down but in a handy dandy package

 

[rsilvers]

Ok.

I am working on a 110 V-MAX and an Ultra Bonded Cor-Lokt. When at the lower velocities of this cartridge, the lighter bullets tend to penetrate in a way that you would normally expect of heavier bullets.

Wilson Combat is working on a 130 T-TSX.

I know of two other ammo makers who plan five loads each but don't know their bullet styles.

All in all, I know of 14 loadings coming out.

The first expanding ammo made in large quantities should be out in Feb or March.

 

[R.W.Dale]

I am working on a 110 V-MAX and an Ultra Bonded Cor-Lokt. When at the lower velocities of this cartridge, the lighter bullets tend to penetrate in a way that you would normally expect of heavier bullets.

This has been my findings as well, at impact speeds of less than 2000fps varmint bullets don't necessarily act like varmint bullets, This said I hedged my bets and used the 125g Nosler ballistic tip for hunting, with this bullet there's a lot of terminal ballistics data to draw on from the 30-30 handgun crowd whom heavily favor this projectile.

At 278yds and a MV of 2450fps on a mid sized Arkansas doe broadside there still wasn't an exit

I realize the 125 nosler isn't a true varmint bullet but I could find accounts (from the manufacturer and users) of how the B-tip behaved on deer around 1600fps, I could find no such data on 30 caliber TNT's or V-maxes.

I still think a heavy RN 30-30 mimicking load would be a valuable asset

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

For recent whitetail hunting, I have been using the 150 and 170gr. bullets designed for .30-30's as they open up better at lower velocities than standard .30 hunting bullets. The .300/.221 (or cut down .223) can be a reliable deer cartridge at 150-200 yards with the FP bullets in those weights, and I have loaded the Barnes 150gr X-bullet, but have not shot an animal with it yet. The really cool thing about the cartridge is the versatility: 110gr HP's to 240gr Match bullets.....take you pick. Pick your challenge, then operate within the range of your load. I limit myself between 125 Ballistic Tips and 220gr BTHP in bullet weights. From light/medium size game hunting to tactical delivery of a 220gr subsonic to 250 yards, this round and guns available COULD serve most of my rifle needs.

 

[rsilvers]

The best price comparison for supersonic ammo is brass-cased 7.62x39mm:

Imported:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=295405 $11.59
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=373939 $13.79

USA:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=883096 $15.29
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=371433 $15.99
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=831144 $17.29

$16.19 average for USA (25% more expensive than 300 AAC BLACKOUT, or 41% more if you use the $11.50 pricing that one dealer is offering).

 

[336A]

And before you kick the marketing machine in high range I've used 30cal AR15 variants that outperform yours by a wide margin on targets and afield, take it form me they don't work worth a crap beyond 300yds. There's too much wind drift, too much time in flight and really NO 30caliber bullets that can be relied apoun to expand below 1600fps.

Exactly just use a simple JSP bullet for hunting designed to work within the velocity constraints of this cartridge. There is no need for a Core Lokt Ultra Bonded bullet for this cartridge, a simple Core Lokt design will suffice. However I guess that Freedom Group needs to get $$ from the uninformed somhow.

So please cut the hyperbole, just tell folks what your cartridge is good for but be honest enough to tell folks what your cartridge is NOT good for too. They will respect you for it and give what you say more concideration. Cause I assure you folks here have a very highly developed BS sniffer and the below quote is pure BS.

+100^^^^^^^^

Stop churching it up as it is nothing more than a 7.62 x39 (performance wise) in a different guise yet has the ability to use subsonic ammo and function in the AR Platform. It's that simple nothing less and nothing more.

 

[rsilvers]

Stop churching it up as it is nothing more than a 7.62 x39 (performance wise) in a different guise yet has the ability to use subsonic ammo and function in the AR Platform. It's that simple nothing less and nothing more.

I agree that it is of the 7.62x39mm power class but compatible with ARs.

 

[W.E.G.]

Seems to me the real cachet of this round is the subsonic capability, combined with compatibility with the AR design - and not insignificantly, UNMODIFIED AR-15 magazines.

I'm not sure why the haters are going on-and-on about wind-drift at 300 yards and such.

This combo will shine its brightest (and quietest) for 100 yards or less.

Yes, you will need an SBR stamp, and a suppressor stamp, and the basic costs of those toys to really enjoy this round.

 

[rsilvers]

In subsonic mode, it is quiet like an MP5-SD, and yet can shoot through cover (including a utility pole). Accuracy is about 2x an MP7 and about 3x an MP5. Range is far more than either.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Question:

To run in supersonic and sub sonic mode is an adjustable gas block/system required?