New Cap and Ball Owner

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Jacob Durant

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Hello all,

First post on this forum. I have been doing alot of reading and have learned well enough to get me started in this hobby i believe. Though always looking for more knowledge. Im not new to black powder firearms, just percussion pistols. I have a couple inline rifles for hunting, range shooting using 209 primers.. ect ect.
I Wanted to start by thanking everyone on here for providing the information and for the forum for allowing me to read it.
I'm considering a few different percussion revolvers. Well i wouldnt say considering as much as i would say I am just about fully decisive. Of course i believe the way I am going about this is the smartest way possible. Always open to suggestions. I have already ordered a powder flask, and measure. remington # 10 caps as well as #11 just in case the #10 dont want to fit right. Though from the information ive collected the pietta's like #10 caps better. Ive bought a pound of Hodgdon 777 fffg powder, Hornady .454 round balls, both styles of loading stands, a higher quality ratcheting nipple wrench, bore butter, pre lubed wads and of course a pick and some other cleaning and dissasselby tools. lol before i even bought the pistols i know. But you cant ever be too prepared. and besides I plan on doing quite a bit of shooting. Considering that.
I would really like to get a Ruger Old Army stainless steel with a 5.5'' barrel, though im not sure if they ever made them factory with that short of a barrel and im having a hard time locating one. So if anybody has one or knows of a guy please pm me as i would be very interested. Other than that My next decision is a Pietta made 1858 stainless steel "sherrifs" version from taylors and co with the 5.5'' barell fixed sights ect. From what ive read they are fairly decent revolvers for the money and fairly close to the originals for those that are serious about authenticity. Though im not.
Though before I get her im planning to pick up from the same company and manufacturer an 1860 Army Snub Nose i guess their called the avenging angels. But im hoping that i will enjoy this as much as i hope i will. Considering ive never owned modern cartridge firarms i shouldnt be too dissappointed with the handling and loading of the bp subs. Anyways im planning for these purchases in the next couple of day maybe a week or so. But would love to become an active member in this forum and of course will always post a ton of pictures. If anybody has any recommendation for me. I would be glad to accept them.
Also just out of curiosity. When it comes to terms of durability, would it really be worth be waiting and locating a ruger old army from an arms website and spending 100s of dollars more over the pietta? It just seems alot more convienant to be able to purchase it from a reputable vendor and have shipped to my doorstep.
Anyways thanks again, I hope yall will accept me in this community. Looking forward to recieving and shooting these pistols. They will be for mainly recreational/target shooting. Will probably carry one as a backup for hunting.
 
Welcome to the club, sir!

I must tell you that I am a Pietta replica 1851 Navy .36 Type fan. I have three Pietta pistols that can be converted to 6 or more somewhat historical pistols: 1851 Navy Second Model, 1851 Third/Fourth Model, Griswold and Gunnison, Schneider and Glassick, Leech and Rigdon, and a fantasy 1851 Navy Dragoon.

I have no personal info or experience about ROA pistols.

My personal opinion about so-called 1858 Remington replicas is very bad, insofar as the name. These replicas are only described as 1858 due to the patent dates on the 1863 Remington New Model Army pistols (of which the replicas are copies).

I am sorry if I am not in the mainstream way of thinking, but I would just like it to be more historical. My post is never going to make the manufacturers change their labeling as it is so ingrained insofar as labeling and production.

Enjoy your Remingtons.

Jim
 
Welcome to the madness!

Ruger Old Armies were made with 5.5 inch barrels but they were mostly fixed sight revolvers and are highly prized by cowboy action shooters, so they are not found for sale as often as the adjustable sighted model. When the 5.5" model goes on sale it can bring almost double what an adjustable sighted 7.5" can. Apparently a small number of 5.5 inch ROAs were made with adjustable sights but I have never seen one personally...highly collectable and therefore quite valuable. Unless you are a cowboy action shooter, the adjustable sighted 7.5" model is more common and less expensive. Stainless steel ROAs cost more than the blued models. For the most part, the ROA is the strongest and most trouble free percussion revolver you can find out of the box and if you can afford one I highly recommend getting one. I have six. If you simply must have a shorter barrel, there are a number of gunsmiths who can chop off a 7.5.

The more historically correct Uberti and Pietta revolvers are good buys, but typically need some after-purchase tuning to prevent cap jams, arbor fit, bolt to cylinder notch fit, etc. So expect to do some home gunsmithing yourself or you will pay someone to tune it for you. I have never owned the Remington 1858 model because the grip is uncomfortable in my hands. Please do not buy anything until you have fondled it and find it comfortable in your hand. The ROA will feel like a Blackhawk, on which it is based.

My avatar is a 5.5" ROA with the factory blue finish removed and a home-brew antique finish applied. I love my pair!

Think of it as an investment...:

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/608870894
 
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I was looking at those before you posted! they are super nice. I would love to have them. Though i cannot honestly justify spending that kinda $$ over a pietta 5.5'' stainless steel. Though if you could talk me into it i might just snag lol so how are they that much better than the pietta? Max load? Durability, accuracy, reliability? Looks, performance?
 
Jacob Durant said:
I was looking at those before you posted! they are super nice. I would love to have them. Though i cannot honestly justify spending that kinda $$ over a pietta 5.5'' stainless steel. Though if you could talk me into it i might just snag lol so how are they that much better than the pietta? Max load? Durability, accuracy, reliability? Looks, performance?
Click to expand...

You can find other 5.5" ROAs that are cheaper than that pair; they were the only ones I could find quickly on Gunbroker. Blue 5.5s would be a bit less than the SS.

In general, the Pietta and Uberti copies of historic Colts and Remingtons have the edge in appearance. The ROA beats them in all the other categories. The bad thing about ROAs is they are not being made any more and replacement parts are scarce. The good thing is, the parts don't wear out.

It boils down to what you are going to use the gun for...casual shooting and such, the Piettas and Ubertis are tough to beat. Hunting, competition...I personally give the edge to the ROA. But I am sure you will get many opinions.
 
I strongly recommend starting with a Colt 1851, but the 1860, Dragoon or Pocket models are fine too.
I prefer the 44, but the 36 was Wild Bill Hickok's favorite, so it has merit.
These are inexpensive, handle great, very accurate, and will get you started. I would avoid a brass frame model, however my brother got many years of service out of his before the arbor shot loose. Even now I believe it is repairable.
Shooting these is pure pleasure, will get you started and the experience will guide your future collection.
LeMatt, Remington, Ruger, Whitney....+1 on Expat Alaska's comments.
 
If you can find a Ruger Old Army for a price that suites you, go for it. Other than that I would recomend a 1858 Remington, Uberti preferably, but Pietta's are good, it's what I have. Just make sure it isn't brass framed, as you would have to keep the powder charge very low.
Welcome to the forum! :)
 
I held out for many years shooting only Pieta 1860 until I had 3 or 4 disastrous shoots in a row where the guns behaved badly. Not because of the maker or the model but simply because they were possessed by the devil.
I decided that I had to take that portion of the game out of my shooting or quit, one or the other. I lucked into a pair of blue ROAs at a price I could affors and have never looked back. For CAS there is no better cap and ball gun to be had.
 
Well I couldnt resist. I am wanting to start shooting quickly so I went ahead and bought this: http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/hand...44-snub-nose-with-thunderer-grips-pietta.html : and after it comes in i will post pictures and perhaps a video or two once i get it out to the range. And my plans are that hopefully this will tie me over until I can find an Stainless Steel ROA. And if i cant find one for under $500 im going to just go ahead and get this: http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/hand...ainless-sheriff-5-1-2-44-checkered-grips.html : But once again would definitely like to have an ROA. So if anyone on this forum has one they would like to get rid of let me know. I will check around local gun shops and keep my eyes open for a Ruger. Thanks
 
They also have the Uberti 1858 Stainless Steel 5.5'' barrel on the same website here : http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/hand...trap-with-brass-trigger-guard-model-432c.html : Its actually cheaper than the pietta by a few dollars. But it doesnt come with the checkered grips. Ive reads lots of comparison threads from Uberti vs Pietta and from I gathered their is not much of a difference anymore. If i went this route would i fair better with the Uberti? Or is it just a matter of personal preference. Though they do have the 8'' barrel with adjustable sights. I just dont like the real long guns.
 
These are not mine, I just noticed them on Gunbroker. It is a Stainless Steel 5.5inch Ruger Old Army pair.
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/610517968

The listing says they were cut down from 7.5 inch to 5.5 inch by a gunsmith.
If these were factory 5.5's they would sell for more.
This is not their first cycle on Gunbroker, but someone will likely eventually buy them.
 
Shoot something similar before you buy. I've owned Remingtons and could never shoot them well. Grip configuration did not fit my hands.
Colt copies work well but be advised that Uberti continues to put out guns with a too short arbor.
 
When you receive your snub nose thunder gripped 1860, post a picture over on the Avenging Angel forum and join!
Then go shoot it and report back. Tell us how you like it, how it it handles, what loads you tried, and the accouterments you used. Pictures always welcomed.
 
A Ruger is a worthwhile pistol for certain. I wouldn't pay some of the prices I've seen though. I figure one in good condition is worth about $600.

For your purposes a replica is a good deal. If you are opting for a Remington 1858 I'd recommend an Uberti. Much less to touch up from what I read across many forums. My Pietta model needed a lot of tweaks such as the hammer nose filed to fit into the safety notches, the hand and bolt edges smoothed up, the loading window/port opened up so I could load my bullets (it only works with a ball as is), the grip panels sanded to fit the frame better as well as the exterior as the grips were a bit big and I hate the reddish stain they use, and finally the chambers are well under sized at 0.446" with a 0.452" bore. Mine are now 0.449" and chamfered. Mine shoots a bit left so I'm also considering dovetailing a front sight in for windage.

I don't read of issues with an Uberti Remington. However the reverse seems to true with Pietta in that their Colts need much less attention.

I recommend you look for 3F Olde Eynsford by Goex unless you want Triple 7 or Swiss powder as you mentioned hunting. These are much more energetic compared to most other powders. I'd also recommend a bullet with a wide meplat. Kaido has a modified Lee .45 Colt bullet and Big Lube makes a few designs I believe. I went to Accurate Molds and created my own as I don't need a huge lube groove for a 7.5" barrel and wanted as wide of a meplat as possible. My 195 grn WFN is only 0.460" long or about the length of a ball so as not to take up powder capacity.

Check out how Triple 7, despite the 15% reduction, still outpaces regular Goex powder. Swiss and Olde Eynsford give similar velocities compared to Triple 7 and as you can see give performance beyond factory standard .45 Colt ballistics.

 
I should recieve the gun in less than a week. Accoriding to shipment tracking. I will definitely post pictures and join the avenging angels club. I already have hodgdon 777 powder and 1 can of 100 of the pyrodex .30 grain pistol pellets. I didnt stock up because like yall said im going to experimenent with powder charges and thing of the such and see which one works the best. I will most definitely give a report of how she shoots and post lots of pictures. I cant wait!
 
ill stay on the market for a reasonably priced ROA but from what im seeing unless a great deal happens to come around at the perfect time i doubt im going to go that route. Cause the cheapest one ive found is 675 buy it now price and that is a looong barrel. I would have to have some gunsmithing work done to get to by preference of the 5.5''. But i will stay looking. and after a couple of weeks goes by with the snub nose ill prolly end up with the pietta 5.5 ss from taylors the sheriff one and call it quits and just have any work done that needs to be done. Anybody know of anyone that does work on these? Like trigger jobs? I could do minor stuff as long as im guided through the process. I have a drmel and lot of sanding equipment. Hopefully ill be satisfied with the quality and it wont be needed. Hopefully i wont get a lemon.
 
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