New CIA Director doesn't understand Fourth Amendment

[RealGun]

Specter's roots are as a prosecutor in Philadelphia. He just reflects the usual big city treatment of gun rights.

Specter and Feinstein are both pro-choice and buddies in that regard when both participate on the Judiciary committee questioning judicial nominees.

Feinstein is former mayor of San Francisco, so both of them are big city animals.

 

[Lindenberger]

Big City treatment of . . . .

Does he also reflect the Big City treatment of Presidential Assassination investigations--with his single, "pristine" bullet that went through two men--splitting the head of one--yet looked as though it'd just come out of the mold? Specter is the dirtiest of dirtballs. Specter and Feinstein--now there's a Jewish Conspiracy for you--anytime the two get together.

 

[CAPTAIN MIKE]

It's Simple:

# 1 - I'm aware of No Legal Impediment to a 30+year top-talent career military intelligence officer serving as Director of CIA. The criticism is "just another excuse" to point fingers and criticize. This guy has an intelligence resume that is second-to-none in the USA, and he is widely respected and admired in the Intel Community by experienced hands. A.J. Squared Away.

# 2 - The Fourth Amendment does not apply to foreigners, period. The NSA is doing its job -- just like I want -- intercepting phone calls by foreign citizens with suspected terrorist links who are calling into our country. More power to 'em.

I for one want to have the most capable, most talented, most dedicated and best people we can get in the CIA, the NSA, the DIA and military intelligence. General Hayden is the kind of talent we can be proud of.

 

[cox3497]

Lindenberger,

Please think carefully before labeling people with such negative names. To label John McCain as a "diabolical Snake" seems a bit over the top for me. Any man who has served his country as McCain has, and paid such a dear price for it, deserves a bit more respect in my humble opinion. I refer, of course, to his service in the United States Navy and his period as a prisoner of war. Not many can handle such a situation so honorably. To walk a mile in his shoes is not something many would desire.

Respectfully,
cox3497

 

[Lindenberger]

Rendered Moot

All that has lost its relevance. The man has no respect for the Constitution--least of all for the 1st and 2nd Amendments--and he is plotting tyranny, mark my words. I stand by my characterization.

 

[vito]

The CIA is a successor agency to the OSS, started during WWII, and run by an active military officer. He was succeeded by another military officer. There is no statuatory or historical precedent for opposing a nominee because of their military status. Personally I think this nominee is a great choice. The CIA has not been very effective in recent years, and part of the problem is the presence of those who are more concerned with their reputation and career than the safety of the nation. Goss tried to clean house, and was forced out. Maybe the good general will be more successful. There is a lot that I don't like about our President, but when it comes to national security he is the best we have had in the last 50 years, other than the late, great, Ronald Reagan. America is at a crossroads, facing threats both from abroad (Islamic fascist terrorists and Iran) and at home (illegal aliens who would change America irrevocably from the English speaking, Western European cultural foundation to the corrupt and dysfunctional Spanish speaking Mexican/Central American culture). While I would prefer if President Bush were more supportive of our 2nd Amendment, and would adhere more to a true conservative agenda, his moves on foreign policy and security keep me in his camp as a staunch supporter. God help us all, and our great country, if the liberal head-in-the-sand Democrats take over control of our government.

 

[RealGun]

Specter and Feinstein--now there's a Jewish Conspiracy for you--anytime the two get together.

Posting a bit less vitriol and conspiracy theorism would be taken more seriously, I think.

 

[Lindenberger]

Conspiracy

Evidently, RealGun, you aren't aware of several postings within this forum to the effect that some members really do believe that a Jewish Conspiracy exists. My post above was a sarcastic reference to such. Regarding the other--I took an oath several times in my life ". . . to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies, external as well as within." What you term "vitriol" is the means by which I choose to do that. "What good is salt if it does not bite?" However, I thank for your criticism.

 

[Ira Aten]

Quote:
"Who said the CIA is suppose to be a civilian agency?"

Well, the CIA was not an Agency at the time of the founding of our system of government, but the legislative intent by the Founders would surely seem to preclude commissioned officers of a standing army running an agency that has specialized Executive Authority to tap your telephone.

I believe your personal telephone would have been classified as a domestic, private affair were they to have known of it's existence.

So I guess the answer to your question could possible be, James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, and George Mason?

 

[saltydog]

Neither does the President; neither does anyone in Congress; neither does the Supreme Court; neither...

Enough said to take care of this thread.

 

[DonP]

Yes and No

"I believe your personal telephone would have been classified as a domestic, private affair were they to have known of it's existence."

The 18th Century equivalent would have been private correspondence between Tory sympathizers and the Crown.

The American troops that captured the British officer (his name escapes me) carrying Benedict Arnold's offer to surrender West Point to the British was an example of intercepting "domestic" private correspondence.

Based on the ACLU's (and a lot of other folks) interpretation those lawful agents of the US government violated Arnold's civil rights by reading his private correspondence.

Same thing on the phone surveillance issue IMHO.

The whole issue of military verus civilian leadership of the CIA is a straw dog. I'm surprised "Wild Bill" Donovan doesn't rise up from his grave and kick some Capitol Hill butt just to shut these pinheads up.

The CIA seems to have become just another refuge lately for AFCSME style career government workers more focused on their pensions and rights than on catching the bad guys.

 

[Phetro]

All I can Say Is...

...if that's any indication of the degree of contempt in which he holds the freedom of Americans, the position would be best filled by someone more qualified.

 

[Khornet]

Supreme Court of the United States

Vernonia School District 47J v. Acton (1995):

"Warrants cannot be issued, of course, without the showing of probable cause required by the Warrant Clause. But a warrant is not required to establish the reasonableness of *all* government searches; and when a warrant is not required (and the Warrant Clause therefore not applicable), probable cause is not invariably required either. A search unsupported by probable cause can be constitutional, we have said, "when special needs, beyond the normal need for law enforcement, make the warrant and probable-cause requirement impracticable." (emphasis THEIRS)

Gen. Hayden was RIGHT. Period.

 

[Ira Aten]

Quote:
"Gen. Hayden was RIGHT. Period."

I agree that not all searches require a warrant. I was saying that the fourth amendment says "No warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause" and Hayden said that that was not part of the fourth amendment. He said, verbatim "[Hayden:] No, actually the Fourth Amendment protects all of us against unreasonable search and seizure.


He said that in response to a question (read the original thread post) as to if a warrant could be issued without "probable cause".

Hayden was wrong. Period. That is why I say, he doesn't grasp the meaning of the fourth amendment.

 

[Khornet]

No, Ira.

The reporter said (Landay) "..but my understanding is the fourth amendment of the Constitution specifies that you must have probable cause to be able to do a search that does not violate an American's right against unlawful searces and seizures. Do you use-"

Gen. Hayden then interrupts: "No, actually-the Fourth Amendment actually protects all of us against unreasonable search and seizure."

Reporter (actually, advocate) Landay was, and you are, I'm afraid, wrong.

Landay then goes on, wrongly, to insist that the standard is probable cause. Gen. Hayden again tries to set him straight, but Landay isn't having any. Hayden was clearly trying to tell the man that the legal standard is not probable cause, at least not in this case according to SCOTUS. Now you can disagree with SCOTUS, and you can disagree with Hayden, but you can't claim that Hayden said probable cause is not in the 4th Amdt, and you can't claim he is ignoring the Constitution.

 

[bowfin]

At the risk of being flamed, I don't think the Director of the CIA needs to know all the nuances of every facet of the job. His job is to lead a troubled and ineffective organization back to being an asset, not a liability.

Lee Iacocca didn't have to know how to put valve cover gaskets on a Dodge Omni to save Chrysler, General Hayden is best served by having a legal expert on his side figure out what the Constitutional constraints are concerning the CIA.

A very liberal journalist from the New York Times gave grudging respect to Ronald Reagan by saying, (paraphrased) "Reagan, unlike JFK or Richard Nixon, implicitly understood the job of being president. Hewasn't elected to manage the federal government, his job was to lead the nation."

Likewise, General Hayden's job is to lead the CIA not be its first and foremost policy wonk.

 

[SSN Vet]

Go GO Master Blaster

Our adversaries do not play by any rules whatsoever.

They know all about our rules and how to use them against us.

If we are in a war for our survival (which I believe we are) we better get smart and take the gloves off. Fighting with one hand tied behind our back by a very stretchy interpretation of the 4th amendment is not going to advance our cause ...... namely, survival.

Let's see......fly from Boston to Ottawa....go to the INTERNATIONAL TERMINAL.

Mail a package from NYC to Mexico City.....international postage rates.

Make a phone call from LA to Taipei.....international operator will assist you with the connection.

Tap phone call from the Detroit office of Islamic Charities Int'l (under investigation for funneling $$ to Hammas) to Karachi satellite phone (which was found on the recall button of cell phone of the suicide bomber who's jacket didn't go POP in Haifa) and what do you get.....DOMESTIC SPYING!!

To all those who want to Boo Hoo about this horrific violation of the 4th amendment, I suggest taking your complaint down to your local Mufti (formerly known as Zom Polite).....just make sure your Burka covers your ankles all the way before you step outside.

Undeniable rule of the cosmos.....the stupid shall be punished.

 

[Thin Black Line]

It will only get worse from here.

http://www.newsobserver.com/110/story/438160.html

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

Tap phone call from the Detroit office of Islamic Charities Int'l (under investigation for funneling $$ to Hammas) to Karachi satellite phone (which was found on the recall button of cell phone of the suicide bomber who's jacket didn't go POP in Haifa) and what do you get.....DOMESTIC SPYING!!

Sorry to bust your bubble, but you appear to be wrong about this. From today's issue of USA Today.

Undeniable rule of the cosmos.....the stupid shall be punished.

I'm with you 100 percent there.