You can check my backpack as soon as I see your warrant.

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What in the world is there left for us if we become a police state because Islam declared war on us? Isn't political liberty why you love being an American? We have a declared enemy. Fight them, not us. For every act of mass murder committed against us by Islam, nuke an Islamic "holy site" or city. Just a small nuke, or maybe even a nutron bomb. Start with those in nations that support terror the most. We bombed Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki in WWII. How is that different? Those civilians weren't personally fighting us either. They have to be made to "feel our pain."

P.S. Just venting.
 
What in the world is there left for us if we become a police state because Islam declared war on us? Isn't political liberty why you love being an American? We have a declared enemy. Fight them, not us. For every act of mass murder committed against us by Islam, nuke an Islamic "holy site" or city. Just a small nuke, or maybe even a nutron bomb. Start with those in nations that support terror the most. We bombed Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki in WWII. How is that different? Those civilians weren't personally fighting us either. They have to be made to "feel our pain."
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+1
 
You bet they are. Why? We are searching the wrong people!

Sorry but right now profiling is a necessary evil but we can't do that, nope not in the slightest. I flew out of Austin, DFW, and PDX a lot after 9/11 and what I saw was nothing short of disgusting!

I would stand in line at the checkpoints for 30 minutes waiting for my time to go through and get felt up by some punk but middle eastern men sure as hell were not getting felt up like the others. If they did not set off the metal detector they were waived right through and they never got pulled aside for the random gate checks either. When I went through and did not set off the metal detector I had to remove my shoes, had my carry on searched and tested for explosive traces, stand their spread eagle as every inch of my body was being felt up by some guy with curious hands all while my belt is undone and my pants were falling down from my ass. I never once saw a single middle eastern man have to remove his shoes before it became mandatory.

.... and don't even get me started on the harassment I watched the TSA put a poor women who was like 80 and in a wheel chair! I damn near beat the crap out of the snotty punk who treated her like a piece of garbage and his humiliating orders to her at the checkpoint were the ultimate slap in the face to being an American. I swear to God he was either on a power trip or trying to get her to perform for his own personal sick amusement.
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I couldn't agree more. Until we start profiling, concentrating most of our efforts on the most likely targets, with an occasional random search, these efforts will be a waste of time.

But it will take many more thousands of Americans dying to implement that, and meanwhile the general populace's rights will continue to be eroded.
 
Yeah, this is amazing. Even people I thought were staunch conservatives, when I express my anger about this, say, "Well, you know it's a different world now after 9/11." They don't seem to see the bigger picture. What are we fighting for if not our liberties under the Constitution? This is nothing less than the very soul of our nation, for Pete's sake. "What does it profit a man [or nation] if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul?" We are exchanging our nation's soul (the liberties men fought and died for from 1776 onward) for a temporary sense of false security. I would much rather take the slight chance of being a victim of terrorism than lose even one of my precious liberties under our Constitution. How far we have strayed from the words of Patrick Henry, "Give me liberty or give me death."
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Don't confuse these neo-conservatives or neo-cons for short with real conservatives.

They call themselves real conservatives but love the police state and traditional liberal ideals. They support the Real ID Act (National ID coming in 2008), the Patriot Act which is a slap in the face to the Constitution, mandatory searches, big brother government, and becoming a watched society.

They are quick to call anybody and everybody else liberals who disagree with the current state affairs but totally ignore that their ideals are exactly out of the playbook the socialist liberals of the 90's tried to run with.

Here is a great article by Ron Paul defining and describing what a neocon is.

Neo-Conned!!!
 
Ahhh, guys, where is the ACLU on this issue??? Oh yeah, they only show up to remove our freedoms. Guess they agree with illegal search and seizure.
 
The next terrorist takes a cab. Or drives one...
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Hey hey now, I drive a cab - the closest thing in my office to a terrorist is a female driver whom I refer to as "radio nazi" cause she gives me flak for poor radio procedure.

Where are our Patrick Henries today?
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Given that he was considered a terrorist and enemy of the state for much of his lifetime, according to Mr. B-E, he's drivin a cab...

Umm...

A huge part of the problem is that the rest of the Muslim world, while not actively bombing us, sure as heck isn't doing much about preventing the kind of hateful indoctrination and financing that breeds and funds terrorism. Complacency might as well be a tacid endorsement. I say practice what you supposedly preach and prevent this kind of murder and intolerance by seeking out those who murder in the name of Allah.
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Yeah, well, for that to happen you'd have to convince them that America as a whole, and it's people, do not want to commit genocide and expunge their people and beliefs from the planet.

Take a good long look around you, not just this forum, but our society in particular - and you tell me what the chances of convincing any of them at this point in time are, eh ?

Good LUCK.

If they're convinced we want to exterminate them, why on EARTH would they want to stop people from violent acts against us ?
Until we can believably offer them something other than hate and violence, they have no reason whatsoever to help us.

Think on that, think long and hard... and consider how much deeper we dig ourselves into that hole every day.

-K
 
its probably already been mentioned, so i apologize if i am rehashing.

question:
the 'probable cause' law enforcement references for searching a vehicle; is it any different than allowing searches of your bags?

granted, the LEO has already pulled you over for some other reason, and your unwillingness to let him search your vehicle may become the 'PC'. so i guess it isnt apples to apples, huh?
 
From Ron Paul

Quote:
Since the change of the political party in charge has not made a difference, who’s really in charge?
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Quote:
Must be the Freemasons, Illuminatis, Skull & Crossbone graduates and Bildeberg members.
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What nonsense! If that's what you got from Representative Ron Paul's article, you must be on drugs.
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Cut back on the coffee dude. I was being facetious. It just happens to be the same question asked when "they" talk about the the goal, purpose and make up of those "secret societies."
 
It's been mentioned here the subway searches are useless and a huge waste of time. Nothing could be further from the truth. These searches are part of a conditioning campaign - and they are VERY effective. The people are getting acclimated to being searched, and this is an important step down the path toward totalitarianism.
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This tells me who the terrorists are.
 
Well <The Real Hawkeye> it's real easy to call people names... calling someone "sheep" on this board can definately be considered name callin I believe, but I notice you didn't have anything to answer my question. ;)


You seem to know it all about what you don't like, but like most folks can't come up with an alternative. Simply not doing anything isn't an option. Surely you can see that. Reread my first post. I'm not argueing with you, just saying that I'm ready to agree that something has to be done.

I'm serious, what do you guys think needs to be done. If you're not doing anything wrong, why worry.

I'm fine with not seeing eye-to-eye, but at least reply intelligently. :)
 
What the heck are you saying KHaotic? We are one of the most tolerant nations on Earth - have been alot of our history. Should we be more tolerant of those that want to kill us?...who declare war on us all? who hate us because we ARE so tolerant? They hate OUR lifestyle - our tolerance of religions, of sexual orientation, of free will & choice, our openess, our equality in regards to race and sex and religion, etc. THEY are the fanatics - maybe THEY should change! THEY state they want to kill us all. Well - such people deserve to die - they in fact demand it by commiting murder, by blowing up civilians, by flying planes into buildings and blowing up subways and busses.

Patrick Henry was NOT a terrorist - he did NOT go around blowing or shooting up women children or civilians - nor did ANY of the patriots sanction such actions.
 
Real Hawkeye: Would you mind sharing with us laymen your class rank standing when you graduated law school? What law school?
 
You seem to know it all about what you don't like, but like most folks can't come up with an alternative. Simply not doing anything isn't an option. Surely you can see that. Reread my first post. I'm not argueing with you, just saying that I'm ready to agree that something has to be done.
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I'm not "The Real Hawkeye" but I'd like to respond to this anyway.

First:
"Not doing anything" may not be an ideal option, but it is worlds better than this half-witted and ineffective security. It's bad enough that we're selling away our liberties for securty, but in this case we're not even getting any real security in return. How stupid is that? As far as options go, "not doing anything" is much better than what we've got now.

Second:
How many died at Valley Forge? How many died on Iwo Jima? How many men have risked their lives in the face of genuine, bona fide deadly threats so that you and I can enjoy true freedom? How many Americans are burried at Arlington Cemetary and Normady? Count all of the casualties over all of the centuries. I dare you. How many people have died so that you can live in freedom?

Now tell me again how the remote possibility of a few deaths in NY is more important than that freedom which hundreds of thousands of our ancestors died for. Now it's our turn to safeguard these liberties. Do you think it's wise to let the mere hint of some psychopath with a bomb scare us into giving them up?

Third:
So what if The Real Hawkeye didn't offer a perfect solution! That doesn't make the current "solution" any less idiotic.








"What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
 
Rockstar, rather than asking personal questions that bear no relevance to the issues we are discussing, why don't you tell me where I am mistaken and why.

That said, I received an A in Con Law I, and a B in Con Law II. By the second semester of Con Law, the professor knew that I was a strict constructionist/originalist, and very much opposed the modern interpretation of the Commerce Clause. Since this is the rationale for the New Deal decisions and other leftist decisions to follow, the professor was less happy, the second semester, with my answers on the essay portions of his exams.

The school shall remain anonymous, as I would like to, if that's OK with you. I suppose unless I graduated from Harvard, that would mean, a priori, that I didn't know what I was saying, though, right.
 
San408 Said: Hey, what the hell, let's just not do anything then. Make you happy?
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You are implying that those who prefer that America should remain the home of liberty are "happy" when innocent people are killed. I don't think that's fair, and you deserved a bit of a shove for doing it.
What else should be done? The folks in charge are under ALOT of pressure to live up to their "responsibility to keep Americans safe". And we all know they cave to any pressure.
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I guess the quotation marks mean you think that's a silly idea, and in this I agree.
I don't much care for the searches either, and I certainly wouldn't want to be one of the poor souls that has to do that job, but in all seriousness... What do we do? Do we just sit and wait to get hit again? Does anyone else think that being proactive is better than being reactive?
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Well, you do all sorts of things, like tightening the boarders, taking another look at our immigration policy, traditional criminal investigation, and then there's diplomacy and military action. What you don't do is change our nation into a police state.

You shouldn't much worry about the terrorists, anyway. You are more likely to be struck by lightening. Their aim is to put terror into your heart, so you can beat them by not being afraid. Keep a stiff upper lip and go on about your usual routine. You can be struck by lightning, a car could go out of control and kill you. You can die in all sorts of ways. Take precautions, but don't go around worried about it. I'm a hell of a lot more worried about losing my liberties than about terrorism. You should be too. Lots of folks fought and died so you could live under liberty. Value that above safety, which can never really be achieved anyway. Value it, even above life. That's your duty as an American. Live up to it.
 
That's much better. Like I said in my second post, I don't disagree with you so much as I just think doing "some" things designed to hinder and attacks could help... as stated, I'm not saying these things that are being implimented fall into this category.

I already do all of the things you mentioned, as I'm sure most of us do.
 
Cut back on the coffee dude. I was being facetious. It just happens to be the same question asked when "they" talk about the the goal, purpose and make up of those "secret societies."
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If you are one of the good guys, then I apologize. I'd have to be a psychic, though, to know you were being facetious, since you gave no clues to that fact in your post.
 
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