New Fad? Is a 410 for Turkeys real?

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Captcurt

Captcurt

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I made a comment on another thread about turkey loads and the new fad of using a 410. I was thinking, HOG WASH. Now after a little research I may have to eat my words. I had a friend ask me about the new 410 turkey guns. The Stevens 301 and the Rossi Tuffy are now on the market. These guns have extra full chokes and are designed to shoot the new Federal TSS loads. These loads have 13/16 oz. of #9 Tungston shot that is over 50% denser than lead and holds more shot than 2 oz. of #4's. Penetration is supposed to be equivalent to #5 lead.

I may have to order a Rossi just to test. The only drawback is the price of ammo. Even at wholesale it is around $5 a pop.
 
I suppose anything will work under the right conditions and close enough range. I’ll stick with my 10 gauge with Hevi-Shot
 
I can see that in Maine, turkeys everywhere. they are not scared of people in my area. I do not turkey hunt but too a friend out and hunted with him. We were about 15-20 yards from a huge gaggle. He shot one and the the rest never even scattered. They slowly walked away when walked up to get the turkey. I could see using a 410 pistol would be ideal.
 
There seems to be a trend of using smaller and smaller hunting weapons to see what you can get away with and then post on social media about how you defied all odds and still managed to make a kill.

Sometimes things like bullet and powder technology are brought up as some kind of justification for said behavior.

I dont judge folks on raw ideas or putting themselves out there. I do have opinions on what is prudent and what isn’t though.
 
410 is carrying things a little too far IMO.

The big disadvantage to the .410 is the fewer number of pellets per shot, so you have to be a better shot with it.
Click to expand...

The number of pellets is the problem. Being a better shot doesn't help. You have a limited number of pellets and aiming only does so much, they still fly pretty randomly and you need 4 or 5 of them in the kill zone.

I bought a lightweight Rem 870 20 ga youth shotgun with a 21" barrel a few years ago specifically for turkey hunting. It is a joy to carry and the short barrel handles great in thick brush. But even with an aftermarket super full choke tube the patterns I got were not confidence builders. I hunted with it a few times and went back to my 12.

I know the 20 can work. If you spend money on the expensive shells and use the right tube I have no doubt the 20 is effective. But it certainly wasn't BETTER than my 12. In fact standard loads from my 12 with the factory full choke tube puts a lot more pellets in the kill zone than I could get with the 20 using pricey shells and expensive aftermarket choke tubes.

At the end of the day I just have more confidence in the 12 and it is only a pound heavier with a 3" longer barrel.
 
Wild turkeys and farm-raised turkeys taste the same to me. However, that only applies to the breast. Wild turkeys run everywhere and only fly as a last resort. Fried turkey breast is a common dish in the South. The legs are only good for making a soup stock.

My turkey load is a 12 ga. load of #5 shot in a full choke barrel. I might hunt them with a 12 ga. muzzleloading shotgun but not with a .410.
 
jmr40 said:
410 is carrying things a little too far IMO.



The number of pellets is the problem. Being a better shot doesn't help. You have a limited number of pellets and aiming only does so much, they still fly pretty randomly and you need 4 or 5 of them in the kill zone.

I bought a lightweight Rem 870 20 ga youth shotgun with a 21" barrel a few years ago specifically for turkey hunting. It is a joy to carry and the short barrel handles great in thick brush. But even with an aftermarket super full choke tube the patterns I got were not confidence builders. I hunted with it a few times and went back to my 12.

I know the 20 can work. If you spend money on the expensive shells and use the right tube I have no doubt the 20 is effective. But it certainly wasn't BETTER than my 12. In fact standard loads from my 12 with the factory full choke tube puts a lot more pellets in the kill zone than I could get with the 20 using pricey shells and expensive aftermarket choke tubes.

At the end of the day I just have more confidence in the 12 and it is only a pound heavier with a 3" longer barrel.
Click to expand...

But they are using tungsten shot in these 410 turkey guns. The claim is #9 tungsten shot performs (penetrates) as well as #4 lead in it terminal effects. A 3-inch 410 shell that classically would have 11/16 oz of lead shot can contain ~400 #9 pellets. If those are tungsten pellet the payload weight comes up to nearly 1-3/16 oz (assuming pure tungsten and not an alloy or matrix). You can't get 400 #4 lead pellets in a 12 gauge shell, even a 3.5 inch shell.

From the testing I have seen #9 tungsten does perform as well or better than #4 lead at ranges you would shoot a turkey at. If your 410 patterns this shot well there is no reason it won't kill some turkeys.

Tungsten really is a remarkable metal for shotgun pellets. If you can afford to shoot it and keep it from touch the barrel.
 
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I would have to agree with @jmr40, 410 is a bit light. If there were only a way to have nearly the punch of a 12ga without so much weight to lug around, and not have to get punched in the shoulder with magnum 20ga shells, if there were only a goldilocks gauge in between those two....we could call it like16 gauge, or something. That's the ticket...I bet the company that comes out with that would be sitting on a goldmine!:D
But seriously, #4 from a 16 gauge makes for a nice turkey load. You can pick up an old 16 at just about any gun show and the ammo isn't nearly as pricey as specialty 410
https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/win...4-shot-1-18oz-25-rnd-box/FC-020892000742.html
 
jmr40 said:
410 is carrying things a little too far IMO.



The number of pellets is the problem. Being a better shot doesn't help. You have a limited number of pellets and aiming only does so much, they still fly pretty randomly and you need 4 or 5 of them in the kill zone.
Click to expand...
That was my thought too, but they claim that the number of shot is like 275 pellets against a 2 oz load of 4s with about 250 pellets. Claim they are pushing 1100 fps. I may have to test it against my 3" 12 ga. I shoot a 1300 Winchester with a 21" smoothbore slug barrel with sights and a .665 choke. It is nasty out to 50 yards with the Longbeard loads. I keep shots under 40 though. My last bird was 15 feet. That is why I have sights.;)
 
I have never had a turkey argue with my 12 ga. double barrel loaded with old-fashioned #4 shells. Puts 'em down every time. No need for that $5 per shot stuff unless you live in a state that doesn't allow lead shot.
 
IMHO Shoot'em with a 410 is more about everyone telling you the 410 is not a capable round and you havin' ta prove'em wrong. I spent several year hunting deer with a 410 slug gun to do exactly that, provin' it was capable. That and it was the only easy way to hunt deer in Ohio with a levergun at the time.
 
410 for Turkey, even with the TSS seems like a provocation or a fad, as the OP noted. I think the TSS makes a light 20 ga gas gun or single shot that's easy to haul around a very viable Turkey gun. But then I'm criticized for not taking the 6.5 CM seriously as a moose rifle at 500 yards, so...
 
I'm thinking is a bragging rights thing...I call so good, I use a 410.
Or it's marketing trying to make a niche that has no business being there.
A 20 gauge makes a great kids shotgun for turkey if you don't use Magnum loads.
 
Last year my buddy shot a big tom less than 10 yards from our blind. No doubt a 410 would have done the job. But, I'll stick with my 870 12ga
 
If my mother was to every hunt with a shotgun I think 410 and 28 is all her shoulders could handle. Torn rotator cuff and just generally getting old, she can't be the only one that a lower recoil would be appreciated. Even if it is more psychological if it gets people in the field and is effective I don't see a reason to cry against it.
 
I have shot them with 10, 12, 16, and 20. 10 was way overkill. 12 was cheapest. 16 seemed best but was too expensive to replace the old shells so I quit using it quickly. 20 is a trade off in ability and weight but to make it match the 16 or 12 more expensive shells are needed. I would not use a .410 unless it was tungsten or bismuth, and then I would want to do a dual sized shot to make it as dense as possible. I have shot some 4-8 lead loads in a 12 that were really impressive something similar in a 410 with heavy hard shot would be workable but still not optimal. The mixed shot though would fill a lot of pattern voids, even if it weren’t with a shot size really adequate to take a bird down by itself, it’s still going to be damage and the cumulative effect of a few of those tiny pellets may do enough to put the bird down.

The second thing about a 410 is one I haven’t seen mentioned here. Even with 10 and 12 ga guns, a lot of birds flip, flop, and make a final shot at migrating a few counties over after a kill shot. With a .410 the pattern will be smaller and you would have to be a good shot, especially if the crippled bird got into a run and required a quick second shot. It’s been my rule ever since I lost a bird that I would not shoot one unless it was close enough for a quick second shot. 410 doesn’t leave much on the table for a second shot.
 
Turkeys are naughty birds!
Every morning fourty or fifty turkeys will make way from the river, as we wait for the school bus.
Yesterday they must have been feeling froggy. It was just over the swale, so I couldn’t see it, but I heard what sounded like a bunch of jerk turkeys sneaking up on a sleeping pair of Canadien geese, and beating the hell out of them!
Every turkey had been talking amongst themselves then it got quiet. Too quiet. Thirty seconds of silence. Then a ruckus broke out such that I haven’t heard before! Squawking, honking, gobbling and the crashing of wings! Sticks breaking, more honking and the flapping of the geese as they made a fly for it!
When the kids left I hopped in the truck and drove down to the dead end. Right through their Rafter! Take that you overgrown chickens! They half flew- half ran and verbally berated me the whole way.
Less funny when it happens to you, huh?:D

I could definitely see walking out the front door and blasting one in the face with a Judge. I might have to kick one or two out of the way to get a good shot though.
Unless they gang up on me and shred me... 5B7743CA-34A1-40B7-9407-3B73E3C04E11.jpeg They saw me walk up to the door and were trying to bite at my pants. They’re not afraid. The sound and echo of them hitting the door was neat.

Man! That’s an ugly bird! A .410 to the beak could only improve that visage...:evil:
There were about twenty more outside the frame, so the door stood shut!
 
I have enough trouble getting within shotgun range as is.

However, I imagine a 410 would fine at 20-25 yards.
 
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