New Lee inline bullet feeder/rotary magazine for SPP/Pro 6000 - Beta testing

[LiveLife]

Lee Precision contacted me to ask if I wanted to beta test their new inline bullet feeder with rotary magazine for Lee SPP/Pro 6000.

Hello John,

... the High Road. The leadership team at Lee has enjoyed reading about your positive experience with the Six Pack Pro and your active participation in other customer's inquiries. We appreciate the high-quality review.

... we have been busy working on an inline bullet feed die and magazine feeder to complement our Six Pack Pro. The product has already passed through many revisions and improvements, at this point we are very happy with the product and find it to be an improvement over anything in the market.

... Would you have any interest in taking a first look of our new inline bullet feed solution? We have a pre-production 35 CAL Inline Bullet feed die and Magazine feeder that we could send to you for testing/review. The magazine feeder you would be testing would be 3D printed, the production product should be available late January as the mold is currently under production to produce these parts.

Calvin Katzfey
Lee Precision, Inc.
​

Of course, my reply was an absolute "Yes!"

So here is the new inline bullet feeder die and 3D printed pre-production model rotary magazine for 9mm. Die came in a black plastic box.



Rotary magazine is a five tube unit and holds 28 RMR 9mm 115 gr FMJ bullets in each tube and holds 5 in the die body for 145 bullets total. Top of rotary magazine.



Bottom of rotary magazine. Bullet feeder die inserts into the opening and white rod guides the die when moving up and down.



And here's the bullet feeder die. White cap is screwed into the die with hole for the guide rod to slide up and down.



And bullet feeder die attached to rotary magazine

 

[LiveLife]

Here's the disassembled bullet feeder die. Top of the die body is threaded to accept white threaded cap with rotary magazine rod guide. Drop tube has four holes for bullet retention ball bearings (2 are used) and I used the top two holes for 9mm FMJ bullets.

I had some trouble getting the die body threaded into the Breech Lock Bushing and decided to clean the threads (I used small whisk broom from the dollar store and used paper towel to wipe the threads).

Broom bristles worked well to clean the threads and paper towel (Kleenex Viva - Only paper towel I use for gun cleaning as it's like fabric cloth) removed all metal shaving from the bushing threads. Cleaned bushing threaded easily down the die threads and I was ready to adjust the die height on the press.

I raised the die body up until full travel of ram up did not actuate the die. I put couple of RMR 9mm 115 gr FMJ bullets in the drop tube and kept lowering the feeder die 1/4 turn until bullet dropped with full travel of ram lever and bottom of drop tube extended just slightly below bottom of bushing.

And here's pre-production bullet feeder installed with two tubes of rotary magazine filled with 55 bullets at station #5 (station #4 is case flare/powder drop and station #6 is seat/taper crimp)

Using around .750" resized length R-P headstamp brass, my powder through expander flared to .380" at the case mouth. To help set the bullet inside the case mouth better, I increased the flare to around .382" and ID of flare measured around .357".

And here's the first bullet drop at station #5 indexed to station #6 without tilting. When I pulled off the bullet, it was lodged into case mouth fairly tight and indexing motion would not be enough to tilt the bullet on case mouth.

Bullet drop #2

More bullet drops

BUT ... after like around 6th or 7th bullet drop, there was no bullet on case mouth. I checked the rotary magazine and bullets dropped down and fed for another 6-8 bullets and no bullet on case mouth ... Hmmmm.

 

[LiveLife]

Continued from post #2.

Thinking bullets maybe hanging up in the rotary magazine base, I disassembled with removal of a panhead screw with an O ring.

And I found out bullet base was catching on slight lip below where the feed tube is inserted on two of the five holes.

Here's the other tube hole in greater detail

So I marked the two holes and pondered ...

Since the lip is very slight, I decided to shave off some plastic to eliminate the lips on both tube holes with 5/16" Allen wrench

And just like that, bullets slid smoothly from the tube and I got the bullet feeder die/rotary magazine assembly back together on the press. I tested both offending tube holes with tube full of 28 bullets and smooth bullet feeding like this.

 

[Nipty]

Awesome!

 

[LiveLife]

Awesome!

It sure is.

And they already started work on stepped "M" style powder through expanders to be tested soon.

 

[Nipty]

You are a big Lee product guy I take it? Or you work in the industry? All Lee products I have , very happy with myself. I see why they are what they are

 

[tightgroup tiger]

How is the die to adjust? Is it quirky at all to get it to feed or is it like most all the other bullet feed dies on the market.
What I mean is most all the other bullet feed dies, we have to mess with them to find the point where they feed and then they work pretty good.
Does this one seem on that same level?
I may be interested in one for my ABLP that I'm using now.
I may look at a Pro6000 again in 6 months to a year since the one I bought didn't work out. We'll see.

 

[jmorris]

I just don’t get the rotary magazine part. Taking every bullet and orient them base down to drop it down a tube by hand, so you don’t have to take every bullet and orient it base down and set it in a case mouth, just seems like something someone with a .gov e-mail came up with.

The rest looks like they took apart a DAA Mr Bullet feeder die. If they did a good job reverse engineering, it will work better than their last attempt at copying the MA Systems feeder but using plastic fingers.

At least they seem to have interest in product development again, that’s good news for all of us.

 

[Gillie Dog]

I just don’t get the rotary magazine part. Taking every bullet and orient them base down to drop it down a tube by hand, so you don’t have to take every bullet and orient it base down and set it in a case mouth

Same comment I had about the DAA Mini years ago. But now I seem to want to play with/learn one of them to see how it goes before learning to print my own collator, dropper etc. Just enjoying the ride now being retired.

And just like that, bullets slid smoothly from the tube and I got the bullet feeder die/rotary magazine assembly back together on the press. I tested both offending tube holes with tube full of 28 bullets and smooth bullet feeding like this.

Okay, I will take one/some as soon as the expander is ready for use in powder through expander die(s) with the powder measures.

GD

 

[Bartojc]

I just ordered an RCBS the other day, but I am not as hot on it as I was when I ordered it. I'll have to see how it works. This looks to be a reverse engineered Mr Bullet die, and a better design. Thanks for sharing. I wonder what retail will be for this gem?

-Jeff

 

[curlysir]

It sure is.

And they already started work on stepped "M" style powder through expanders to be tested soon.

Keep reading about the "M" style powder through expander, not familiar with it at all. What is the main advantage to it compared with the Lee powder through expander when it is correctly set up? I have had no problems with the current Lee expander when it correctly set.

 

[Gillie Dog]

Keep reading about the "M" style powder through expander, not familiar with it at all. What is the main advantage to it compared with the Lee powder through expander when it is correctly set up?

From the manufacturer:
https://www.lymanproducts.com/brand.../pistol-die-sets/pistol-neck-expanding-m-dies

Helps bullet feeders set bullet as well as manual placing.

GD

 

[9mmepiphany]

What is the main advantage to it compared with the Lee powder through expander when it is correctly set up?

It is two-fold:

1. It forms a "seat", with parallel sides, at the case mouth to hold the bullet aligned with the case...that is why I got my first M-die...to avoid shaving of coated bullets
2. The seat also holds the bullet as it travels between stations on a progressive press.

You can also use it to gauge when you have "enough" expansion of your case mouth. After the bullet is placed, you can pick up the case, invert it, and the bullet won't fall out. If you pick it out manually, it make a slight "popping" noise as it breaks tension

 

[9mmepiphany]

How is the die to adjust? Is it quirky at all to get it to feed or is it like most all the other bullet feed dies on the market.
What I mean is most all the other bullet feed dies, we have to mess with them to find the point where they feed and then they work pretty good.

Not having examined the Lee, I can only comment on the DAA Mr Bulletfeeder that it seems to be based on

The adjustment is pretty simple.
1. Place a case on the shell plate and raise the case into the die body.
2. Place a couple of bullets into the feeder die
3. Screw down the die body until a bullet drops into the case
4. Lower case and screw in die another 1/4 - 1/2 turn and lock in place

The RCBS/Hornady bullet feeder dies use the case mouth to release the bullet by spreading and contracting two separate collets to control the flow of bullets. The DAA pushes the ball bearings out of the way as the case raises and they roll back in place as the bullet nose/ogive is retracted...it is self adjusting as to the shape of the bullet being loaded

 

[Kaldor]

Interesting.

I have some 3d printed and DAA bullet feed dies. I think I like the spring return Lee added directly to the die which can be a problem at times stopping a second bullet from dropping. Ive thought about something similar to this for my die (printed and DAA) to try and solve this issue. With Lee pricing I think alot of guys that want a feed die, but dont want the DAA, this could be a good thing.

 

[LiveLife]

You are a big Lee product guy I take it? Or you work in the industry?

No, not at all.

I am just another shooter/reloader who started reloading for USPSA match in the 90s and trained on Dillon 550/Lee Pro 1000 and happened to choose Pro 1000 due to auto-index and Pro Auto Disk volumetric measure that could not drift even after 1000-2000+ round sessions.

After close to 30 years of reloading while accumulating 15 presses and reloading 700,000 rounds of pistol reloads (I do not keep track of rifle/22LR rounds), expended over $160,000 on reloading equipment/components (Mostly on components) and operated Dillon 550/650 with case feeder but for THR test rounds and myth busting threads the past decade, used familiar and humble Pro 1000s (I had them dedicated for each caliber) due to low OAL variance down to .001" myth busted here - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...progressive-press.833604/page-2#post-10779806

And my day job after stint in the Army was CA government civil servant for 26 years. As to troubleshooting/root-cause-analysis background, my stepfather retired as an electrician and restored classic/muscle cars as hobby and I learned to troubleshoot mechanical/electrical problems during teenage years, building over 1000 computer systems in my 20s and working as state analyst/supervisor/coordinator/manager/director to resolve issues others could not before retirement - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...r-oal-consistency.911743/page-4#post-12453362

 

[LiveLife]

How is the die to adjust?

1. Place a case on the shell plate and raise the case into the die body.
2. Place a couple of bullets into the feeder die
3. Screw down the die body until a bullet drops into the case
4. Lower case and screw in die another 1/4 - 1/2 turn and lock in place

Sorry for the late reply ... Had wife's "honey do" list of things today.

9mmepiphany pretty much nailed it.

This is what I did to adjust the Lee bullet feeder die:

1. Screwed the die in the breech lock bushing and inserted in the press
2. Raised the die body up until full travel of ram up did not actuate the die
3. Put couple of RMR 9mm 115 gr FMJ bullets in the drop tube and kept lowering the feeder die 1/4 turn until bullet dropped with full travel of ram lever and bottom of drop tube extended just slightly below bottom of bushing
4. O-ring in the bushing allows for easy adjustment of die in the bushing

This was amount of drop tube shown below the bushing when I finished adjusting for reliable drop of bullets.

 

[GW Staar]

Looking at your pictures, looks to me like they copied the 3d printed design....at least with the 2 ball bearing system. DAA has 3 ball bearings......RCBS rifle feed dies have 4! I'm trying to wrap my head around the big spring at the top of the die. Does that do what the two little springs do for the 3d printed ones? If not what's it for.



The red one is the 9mm one I'm using in the video I posted yesterday in LiveLife's other thread. It works 100% every single time....also using 2 ball bearings. Hoping the Lee one works similarly. What price does Lee project for one of those dies? Those 3 plastic ones together only cost me $10 and some time to print them.

Video in the thread below shows the red one working....
Lee Pro 6000 unboxing and testing for OAL consistency

 

[LiveLife]

I just don’t get the rotary magazine part.

At least they seem to have interest in product development again, that’s good news for all of us.

Each rotary magazine with around 100 bullet capacity, you can prefill them while watching TV or during downtime and swap out magazines during reloading session (Rotary magazine simply pop up with guide rod sliding in the sleeve).

Rotary magazine for bullet feed die offers reloaders a compact, economical bullet feed option compared to large motorized units with hopper. And you can still use the bullet feed die with motorized bullet feed units also.

I'm trying to wrap my head around the big spring at the top of the die. Does that do what the two little springs do for the 3d printed ones?

Yes.

What price does Lee project for one of those dies?

With Lee pricing I think alot of guys that want a feed die, but dont want the DAA, this could be a good thing.

When I asked about pricing, this was the reply:

... All pricing and final details will be disclosed in our catalog at the start of the new year ... they will indeed be economical ... to acquire spare magazines.

Calvin Katzfey
Lee Precision​

 

[LiveLife]

The RCBS/Hornady bullet feeder dies use the case mouth to release the bullet by spreading and contracting two separate collets to control the flow of bullets. The DAA pushes the ball bearings out of the way as the case raises and they roll back in place as the bullet nose/ogive is retracted...it is self adjusting as to the shape of the bullet being loaded

Lee bullet feed die employs even simpler design:

• Spring tension pushes down on the drop tube which causes the two ball bearings to be pressed in not allowing the bullet to drop
• When the case mouth pushes up on the bottom of drop tube (Left side in the picture), two ball bearings get pushed outward into wider part of die body by the weight of bullet column
• As case drops down, spring tension pushes down on the drop tube to cause two ball bearings to be pressed in to block the next bullet
• Drop tube is straight cylinder and ball bearings blocking the bullet base is not affected by nose profile of bullet

 

[Kaldor]

Looking at your pictures, looks to me like they copied the 3d printed design....at least with the 2 ball bearing system. DAA has 3 ball bearings......RCBS rifle feed dies have 4! I'm trying to wrap my head around the big spring at the top of the die. Does that do what the two little springs do for the 3d printed ones? If not what's it for.

View attachment 1118114
View attachment 1118115
The red one is the 9mm one I'm using in the video I posted yesterday in LiveLife's other thread. It works 100% every single time....also using 2 ball bearings. Hoping the Lee one works similarly. What price does Lee project for one of those dies? Those 3 plastic ones together only cost me $10 and some time to print them.

Video in the thread below shows the red one working....
Lee Pro 6000 unboxing and testing for OAL consistency

What Im seeing is alot heavier spring than the DAA or 3d printed versions use. That could be good, could be bad, but I know my DAA 9mm die does drop 2 bullets far too often because it simply doesnt have enough return force. If this works well, and its typical Lee pricing, it wont be so much a game changer, but it will give options.

 

[LiveLife]

What Im seeing is alot heavier spring than the DAA or 3d printed versions use. That could be good, could be bad, but I know my DAA 9mm die does drop 2 bullets far too often because it simply doesnt have enough return force.

Once I removed the internal lips that caught the bullet base edge, both offending tube holes dropped bullets consistently and reliably with no double feed. As to the construction of the bullet feed die, looks like testing and design change has already taken place:

The product has already passed through many revisions and improvements, at this point we are very happy with the product and find it to be an improvement over anything in the market.

Calvin Katzfey
Lee Precision, Inc.
​

As to the internal lips I came across, Calvin emailed back and said I was sent one of early test units and although hand reamer was used to eliminate the lips, slight lips may have been left. Of course, final production units won't have the lips to hang up bullets.

 

[LiveLife]

Keep reading about the "M" style powder through expander, not familiar with it at all. What is the main advantage to it compared with the Lee powder through expander when it is correctly set up? I have had no problems with the current Lee expander when it correctly set.

1. It forms a "seat", with parallel sides, at the case mouth to hold the bullet aligned with the case...that is why I got my first M-die...to avoid shaving of coated bullets
2. The seat also holds the bullet as it travels between stations on a progressive press ... You can also use it to gauge when you have "enough" expansion of your case mouth. After the bullet is placed, you can pick up the case, invert it, and the bullet won't fall out. If you pick it out manually, it make a slight "popping" noise as it breaks tension

With bullet feeder on progressive press with shellplate index motion, bullet tilt during movement to next station is an issue.

With regular flaring of case mouth, you can expand the case mouth enough to have bullet base sit inside the flare but only the very bottom of bullet base will be inside the flare. With stepped "M" style expander, case mouth is expanded to allow the bullet base to enter the case neck deeper until bullet base hits a narrower step. With more of bullet base inserted into the case neck, tilting of bullet during rotational indexing of shellplate is eliminated.

Knowing this, when Lee Precision offered for me to beta test their new inline bullet feed die/rotary magazine, I immediately emailed back with forward to Stephanie, VP insisting Lee Precision consider offering stepped "M" style powder through expander and subsequently when I talked to Calvin on the phone, I explained this and he took the request to John Lee, president of Lee Precision who immediately committed to R&D of stepped powder through expanders to be offered for both users of inline bullet feeders and those who manually placed bullets on case mouths.

Since then, Calvin and I exchanged emails to better fine-tune the initial batch of test expanders with one key aspect being stepped expander being straight at case mouth vs having additional flare and I suggested having the additional flare of case mouth option work better with situations where shellplate/case mouth alignment to die opening is not optimal and flare will help guide the dropping bullet from the feed die.

As soon as initial batch of test expanders are produced, Calvin will be sending them for me to beta test with the inline bullet feeder.

Calvin wanted clarification of case mouth flare, especially to prevent bullet tilting during shellplate index rotation and I explained:

• R-P headstamp 9mm brass measured around .750" resized length was used to set the case mouth flare to .380" OD which allowed hand placement of RMR 115 gr FMJ on case mouth for the seat/taper crimp die.
• Case mouth flare of .380" was not sufficient to allow feed die to drop bullets square into the case mouth
• Increasing case mouth flare to .381" allowed the bullets to drop square onto the case mouth but tilted the bullet during indexing of shellplate
• Increasing case mouth flare to .382" allowed the bullets to drop square onto the case mouth and set the bullet base in case neck enough to not tilt the bullet during shellplate indexing (As 9mmepiphany posted, it required some force to "pop" off the bullets from the case neck)
• But setting the case mouth flare OD to .382" won't work when using mixed range brass of differing resized case lengths and case wall thickness as differing amount of case mouth flare ID will be produced to induce tilting of bullet during shellplate indexing and use of stepped "M" style powder through expander will address this issue as the expander works on ID of case mouth/neck, not the OD.

I will keep you posted as soon as I get an update on the stepped "M" style powder through expander for beta testing.

 

[trdjohn]

So will the Lee bullet feed system have only one bullet drop die, will it handle all caliber bullets - pistol and rifle? Or are they going to have dies that handle specific range of calibers?

If it is only one die, handling multiple calibers, and works really well, that'll be a leg up on the mini Mr BF...in their system you have to buy die specific calibers and each costs about $60. In addition to the caliber specific bullet turret, each about $60.
And if you shoot 6mm rifle bullets, the Mr BF mini doesn't have a die for those, and when I inquired they seemed like it wasn't going to happen anytime soon.

 

[GW Staar]

What Im seeing is alot heavier spring than the DAA or 3d printed versions use. That could be good, could be bad, but I know my DAA 9mm die does drop 2 bullets far too often because it simply doesnt have enough return force. If this works well, and its typical Lee pricing, it wont be so much a game changer, but it will give options.

I did notice that DAA now sells a spring add-on for their feeders where originally there was no spring.....I'm thinking they copied the 3D printed ones too. The RCBS rifle bullet feeders do not come with return springs, but I've never seen two bullets fed. What I have experienced with the RCBS ones is forgetting to use enough care moving them around as to not come apart and lose ball bearings on the floor! The spring prevents that.....so I 3d printed a spring mod for them too.....see picture below:



The RCBS ones work 100% without doubles or misses too. I hadn't heard that DAA's can drop doubles before Kalder's post. Even with their spring kit? I'm still not sure how the new Lee's work with their springs....just too hard to see from the pictures so far.....maybe a video is coming? Will be fun to try one.....will have to be patient until January.