New reloader 650

[txblackout]

Hi everyone Im a new reloader and decided to start with an XL 650. Im starting this thread to help work through any problems I encounter.

Here is my setup for background

Dillon XL 650
Strong mount (I wasnt intending to use it, but realize it will really help so it is on the way)
redding national match 300 blackout dies
Lee FCD

Recipe:
Brass: remanufactured 300 blackout from ozark ordnance
Bullets: Cast 245 gr 20 brinel hardness from missouri bullet company
Powder: starting with 11.2grains of A1680

The first problem I encountered was the primers not coming out as I adjusted the sizing die. When I finally got it so that the primer came out, the brass got stuck. Turns out hotshot apparently needs to dry.

Bought a stuck brass kit from RCBS for like $24, turns out I could have just bought a 1/4" tap, screw and used a socket wrench socket with washers.

Got the stuck brass out.

Lubed with the dillon lube on another case and got the primer out (success!). On the next one the primer wouldnt come out so I pulled the handle several times. This ended up ripping the top half inch of the case off. I was able to unscrew the decapping pin mount even though there was brass wedged in there and tapped out the part that screws on to lock the decapping pin in.

This is when I realized there are a lot of subtle points that reading directions wont cover.

Next step will be to adjust the powder.

One question I have for the sizing die is the dillon instructions say to leave the width of a dime. The die instructions say to screw the die in until it is just touching the shell holder.

Any other tips/warnings for adjusting the sizing die?

Powder?

Thanks in advance.

I have a case gage coming so I can check the sizing

 

[MtnCreek]

Size to fit the gage or your chamber. I don't remember reading a dime width between the die and shellplate, but the instruction do warn not to warp the plate with the die.

Read the instructions for setting up the powder carefully. The setup is different for bottle neck vs strait wall.

Consider getting a simple single stage press to learn reloading. It's a good tool to have even if you have a nice progressive.

 

[txblackout]

everyone has said that single stage is good to start out with but I have very limited space. I read a few comments from people that said they started out with the 650 directly despite advice to go single and they dont regret it.

When I drop in a single case it seems like it is acting just like a single stage. Powder is not dispensed unless there is a case and none of the other dies do anything unless there is a case.

The great thing is that there is no unscrewing/screwing in of dies.

It seems like I can do partial pulls of the handle to index the shell plate without doing anything to the case.

Is this ok?

 

[9mmepiphany]

I started out on a progressive...actually several (belonging to friends)...and don't regret it. I decided to go with a Hornady LNL AP, which really can be quickly converted to a SS. I've since added a SS to my bench. Not to learn on, but as adjunct support for the progressive.

With limited bench space, you likely would have been better off with an Inline Fabrication Quick Change mount in place of the Strong Mount. That way you could easily switch between presses.

It sounds like you've run into the Perfect Storm of reloading, by picking a fairly advanced machine, not having sufficient understanding of the process, and a less than optimal cartridge to start learning to reload. Bottle neck cartridges always involve more work than straight walled cartridges...or even a 9mm.

Along those lines, what are you using to trim your cases?

Folks I know who reload 300 Blkout on a 650, usually do it in two stages (two tool heads) or have two 650s

They usually lube, deprime with a Universal Decapping die, resize, and tumble their cases (to remove the lube) as the first stage.

Then prime, seat, and crimp on another go around

 

[joem1945]

"One question I have for the sizing die is the dillon instructions say to leave the width of a dime. The die instructions say to screw the die in until it is just touching the shell holder."

I set my size/ decap die until it touches the shell plate. A side note: Tkake time to adjust the shell plate untill it just turns with the indexer. If you leave too much slop you will never get a good load.. To adjust the powder die for rifle make sure not to screw the die in too far or you will bend the acuator. Pistol loading requires the power die to bell the case mouth. Call Dillon for any help you might need. They will take the time to help you.

 

[txblackout]

im hoping to not have to trim my cases at first by checking for the ones that are still within spec.

If I cant get any within spec Im going to by some preprocessed brass just to stay focused on the loading steps.

 

[sawdustdad]

Do you have any friends who reload who might be able to come over and help you? Might want to find someone...

 

[jmorris]

Why is there a primer in remanufactured brass? Is it .223 brass that has been fired after the conversion to 300, 300 brass that was reloaded and fired again or .223 cut and formed but not deprimed?

 

[Edcnla]

Also look into reloading clubs or classes in your area.

 

[TommyD45]

If you are reloading a bottle neck rifle cartridge, you really should get a headspace gauge. (http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/71...3eGchXGC1pah4TUA4nRr0Pc4_sdnv2wZdgaAnWM8P8HAQ) The rimless cartridges headspace on the shoulder. Since the case will lengthen with repeated reloadings, eventually you will get to the point where the action may not close consistently.

To set up you resizing die, start with a case that is a little too long as measured in your headspace gauge. Start with the die out a little farther than you need and run a case through it. Remeasure, and if the headspace is still too much, then screw your die in a little deeper. Repeat the process until the headspace is within SAAMI specs for your cartridge.


It sounds tedious, but it is pretty much a one time operation. Once you get the die set for the correct headspace, lock it in and you are good to go. Of course mechanical devices can shift over time, so you should occasionally check the headspace, but you should not have to readjust very often.

Conceptually this is the same as adjusting the seating depth for your bullets. start out long and sneak up on the correct length.

 

[txblackout]

I do have a case gage as the instructions say that it is required

There are primers because Im shooting brass from factory remanufactured 300 blackout ammo (ozark ordnance). I have thousands of rounds so dont expect to have to convert any 223 for a long time if ever.

Im taking my time on setup, doing a little each day then reading more. Right now I have the powder dispensing fine (consistently over multiple drops), decapping is good, resizing is good as well.

Seating looks good, but I have a question about seating cast bullets from MBC.

In all the videos it looks like the bullets are placed somewhat in the case. The sizing die is setting the case mouth diameter to be about .304/.305 (the sizing "ball" is .306). the MBC cast bullets run about .308/.309. When doing the seating step they are just sitting balanced on top of the case. Ive been just holding the bullet as I pull the handle until it enters the die. Is this ok?

Second a tiny bit of lead is getting shaved off the bullet as the bullet is seated is this ok?

The MBC bullets have two cannelures. They arent even close to being in the right place to get a good OAL. Why is that?

The bullets Im using have been pulled so they have a slight line in the bullet where the original casing ended. Is this ok?

I have the Lee factory crimp die. I have watched videos and read the instructions but am having a hard time telling if it is actually crimping and if it is, is the crimp in the right place.

Im test shooting in a ruger american 300 blackout just to test loads. Should I just skip the crimp for now?

My thought with buying the bolt action is that it would be easier/safer to test loads in a bolt gun than a AR style semi auto. I bought it solely to test loads, although now Im interested in possibly hunting with it for total silence. Does a bolt gun handle issues (explosions, case separations etc) better than a semi auto?

 

[mahansm]

The issue of shaving lead should be addressed. There are a couple of things you can do.
First, you can move the powder die down slightly. This will force the powder funnel deeper into the case mouth, flaring the case mouth slightly. The flare will allow the bullet to slide into the case. It should also help balance the bullet as it enters the seating die. The crimp die should then be adjusted to remove this flare.

Second, you can chamfer the inside of the case mouths. You can use a specialized tool or simply use a countersink bit.

 

[gahunter12]

txblackout you may be putting the horse ahead of the buggy. Most will tell you to learn on a single stage, learn on FMJ instead of lead. Did you debur/chamfer the case mouth? If not then there's one of your problems with shaving lead. You don't want to shave lead. That will cause leading in the barrel. You are correct that the neck is sized down below te dia of the bullet. You Dont bell the necks of bottle neck rounds, or at least I have never seen it. With a bolt gun you dont need a crimp die. As a matter of fact I rarely use a crimp die on my .223 for my ARs. For a bolt gun I would only bump the shoulder back .002" if this brass has been fired from your own bolt gun. The brass will last a lot longer. Don't look at which gun you use as being safer in case of an explosion. A kaboom is really bad in any gun.

Personally I would find a local mentor, READ, READ, READ, take a step back, catch your breath, buy some jacket bullets from Hornady, Sierra, Nosler, etc, and take your time. You are learning how to drive in a 800hp stock car at Daytona. The XL650 is a great machine, and I love my 650's, but I couldn't imagine learning on one. I learned on a RL550, and a Single Stage, and thank goodness I did!! I use a single stage for all my bolt gun loads since they are for precision. Good Luck, and PLEASE get a mentor to guide you along!!

 

[jmorris]

First, you can move the powder die down slightly. This will force the powder funnel deeper into the case mouth, flaring the case mouth slightly.

Depends, Dillon generally suggests using the "AK" pwder funnel for 300blk and it like other pwder funnels for bottle neck rifle rounds does not expand or flare. As rife dies have the expander on the decapping pin.

If you ordered a "C" powder funnel for the 30 carbine/30 Luger it will expand and flare like other pistol powder funnels.

 

[jmorris]

Second a tiny bit of lead is getting shaved off the bullet as the bullet is seated is this ok?

The MBC bullets have two cannelures. They arent even close to being in the right place to get a good OAL. Why is that?

The bullets Im using have been pulled so they have a slight line in the bullet where the original casing ended. Is this ok?

The cannelure doesn't "line up" because the bullets are for .30 cal rounds that are longer and have much more case volume than the 300blk.

Are we talking about wax lubed or coated bullets? Either way you don't want shaving but if you shave a coated bullet I imagine leading will quickly occur.

Using pulled cast bullets, the line is because the part that was in the case is a smaller diameter than the part that was not. Either from shaving or swaging.

What part of TX are you in?

 

[txblackout]

austin, tx

Using the AK powder funnel

MBC has the bullets as listed for 300 blackout so Im surprised the cannelures arent in a more useful location

They are older bullets so arent the lubed/coated ones. Next time around I will buy coated bullets.

Do I need to chamfer debur if I didnt trim?

Also something that I just checked this morning is that even the cases that have been fired fit perfectly in the case gage. Is this unusual?

I dont think there was much if any stretching going on

 

[txblackout]

Ok so I have made my first 3 complete rounds.

bullets 245gr MBC lubed
powder A1680 - 11.2gr
COAL 2.035 (somehow they ended up shorter than my dummy rounds, I will target 2.1 next time)
case length - 1.355
CCI 400 primers
No crimp
Still shaving lead, Im using the redding national match set and Im not sure I can flare the mouth at all. Using the powder measure to flare it seems wrong somehow.

Tests I did:
rounds seat in the LE wilson
rounds are 2.0375 OAL
primers are flush and flat
Weighed the cases before powder and after


If Im ok with some leading as I test, am I ok to shoot?

If there is not enough information, what other things should I check for to make sure Im ok to shoot?

Shooting out of a ruger american bolt action for my tests


Also:



I chambered 2 dummy rounds into my AR platform and one of the rounds had the bullet pushed in, which seems very dangerous. It seems like that is the point of the factory crimp which Im not doing at the moment.

I dont think this will be a problem in the bolt gun


Also:
On the advice above I have purchased sierra round nose bullets and they should be here later this week. Will purchase exanding die.

After you use an expanding die and seat the bullet does crimping put the neck back?

 

[txblackout]

just bumping with open questions

 

[jmorris]

They are older bullets so arent the lubed/coated ones. Next time around I will buy coated bullets.

Do I need to chamfer debur if I didnt trim?

Also something that I just checked this morning is that even the cases that have been fired fit perfectly in the case gage. Is this unusual?

You won't have leading problems (any worse than normal) with wax lubed bullets that have been shaved a little. Coated are different though.

It depends were the cases chamfered the first time around? I don't bother if I am loading jacketed bullets and using the Dillon trimmer but have to to use my coated bullets.

Since you are shaving I expect that it would help. I don't expand my rifle cases for coated bullets, just seat them straight with chamfer.

Not unusual for the fired case to fit the gauge.

 

[txblackout]

ok Im going to shoot today, wish me luck

 

[txblackout]

I was incredibly nervous. I went to the indoor range which maxes out at 25 because they seems a lot more professional in case something happened.

They shot fine. Im going to wait for the lyman m die to arrive before I load anymore.

There was a ton of smoke, hope thats a good sign. I was afraid to shoot the bullets through my suppressor, so not sure if they were subsonic or not.

 

[txblackout]

I got the lyman M expander die and have the lee FCD setup. Im expanding the mouths, able to seat the bullet (still very tight), no lead shaving and then the FCD crimps.

How can I tell that the crimp die put enough crimp?

A couple of times I got a round where the neck was too large and the bullet was sliding around. I tried to resize it and it wouldnt get small enough. What is that a sign of? (Im worried that my sizing die isnt setup right, but my cases just happen to mostly be ok).

What are some of the bad things that could happen if the above isnt going right? What are the signs I can look for?

Also there is powder now stuck in all the factory grease on the press. Is this typical? Should I be cleaning all the factory grease off?

If i lower the handle too slowly, the case drops out of the case tube and falls to the side. I need to have a relatively quick motion lowering the handle so there is a smaller gap between the shell holder and the case tube. Is this normal?

 

[1KPerDay]

You don't need to crimp rifle rounds if you have proper neck tension. Lead will smoke. And I wouldn't run it through a suppressor unless it's easy to take apart.

I'd adjust the FCD until it's just removing the bell or a tad more.

Some of your cases may have been worked more often and have lost neck tension. Collect those aside and either recycle or you can learn to anneal them. Make sure you know what the case gage is telling you. It's not enough that they drop into the gage. The rear needs to be below the upper "step" on the back of the gauge and for a semi, ideally flush with the lower step.

 

[txblackout]

You don't need to crimp rifle rounds if you have proper neck tension. Lead will smoke. And I wouldn't run it through a suppressor unless it's easy to take apart.

I'd adjust the FCD until it's just removing the bell or a tad more.
.

They no longer have the proper neck tension because of the expander die that I used (or maybe they do). I *think* the fcd is removing the bell, but it is really hard to tell. What can I look for?

 

[jmorris]

You can tell when you crimp too much, you will swage the bullet to a smaller diameter, no comming back after that. If you are trying to make a brass small enough to hold a bullet after the bullet is in it you are waisting time. The brass will swage the bullet smaller and then the brass case will "spring" back making the problem even worse.

Like I said above I don't expand bottle neck cases just chamfer and seat straight and get no shaving, you might try that and see if it's less work or gives better results.

I have a compressor under my bench but canned air like for keyboards is pretty handy for blowing away powder.

On the case feed slide there is a triangle shaped part that can be mounted two ways and adjusted back and forth, take a look at page 39 of the manual. Once adjusted correctly you can run at any speed.