New reloader has question(s)...

Centella

Centella

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2023
Messages
91
Hello there folks,
I am a fairly new shooter and I've been enjoying the hobby since July 2022. Mostly into revolvers, I've been shooting 38 specials (S&W 686) and 9mm (Uberti Cattleman single action revolver).
With the price of ammunition the way it is these days, I decided to get into reloading and got myself a little 38 Special Lee Classic Loader to try to save some money (in the long run I guess), but besides that it is a ton of fun.
I already reloaded 50 rounds of 158 grain FMJ, took them to the range a couple of days ago and was very happy with the results. The reloaded rounds worked great!
Unfortunately, the bullets I purchased are now out of stock, and I just can't find any cannelured 158 grain FMJ anywhere. I want to stick to cannelured bullets to make sure I get a proper crimp, and I've been told that as a new reloader I should stick to FMJ until I'm more proficient.
The closest in-stock bullets I've found online are Berry's 158 gr "plated" and Precision Delta's 130 gr FMJ.
So here's my questions. Is there a huge difference between working with 158 gr FMJs vs 158 gr "plated" bullets? As a newbie, is there something I should be aware of? Is moving from FMJ to plated a seamless transition or is there a learning curve?

Regarding Precision Delta's 130 gr FMJs, well, there's no reloading data anywhere for this bullet and the powder I have (N340). So, does anyone have loading data for this situation? Or, is there a formula we can use for adjusting the grains of powder needed for 158 gr vs 130 gr?

Thanks so much for your help folks, you guys have a happy Monday.
 
bigpower491 said:
My opinion, not too much difference between plated and fmj, the plated bullets will be softer. Don't over crimp.
As far as data, I always look for cast data when loading plated I have no information on.
Click to expand...
Hey thanks! I guess the safest option would be going with the 158 gr. plated then. Still, it would be interesting to know if there's a formula out there for "converting" powder charges for bullets of different grains but of the same type (plated, FMJ, etc). Will look into cast data as well...
 
Do the Lee loaders have a way to flare the case mouth? I haven’t tried plated bullets in 38 Special but I always flare the case just enough to get the bullet started when loading them in 9mm. It keeps the case from shaving off the plating material.
 
Plated bullets are softer, as in the plating isn't as thick as regular jacket. I have in the past used low end(starting loads) jacketed data, but remember you're not going to really be able to throttle these up like you would a jacketed.

The other concern would be COL.
 
DMW1116 said:
Do the Lee loaders have a way to flare the case mouth? I haven’t tried plated bullets in 38 Special but I always flare the case just enough to get the bullet started when loading them in 9mm. It keeps the case from shaving off the plating material.
Click to expand...



Yes this also....
 
Centella said:
Hello there folks,
I am a fairly new shooter and I've been enjoying the hobby since July 2022. Mostly into revolvers, I've been shooting 38 specials (S&W 686) and 9mm (Uberti Cattleman single action revolver).
Click to expand...

Welcome to the club! Sounds like you've started with some fun revolvers. I've been enjoying shooting as a hobby for several decades and I'm only now trying reloading.
 
Traditionally, plated bullets are treated like cast ones. That is, load data is interchangeable between the two, speeds are held down, and the case mouth needs a tad more flair.

That all is still true, and I generally adhere to the "rules". A catch is that much of the cast bullet data is quite low, so that folks don't call the powder manufacturers to complain about leading. With a bit of additional knowledge, cast bullets can generally be driven about as hard as jacketed, at least at typical handgun speeds. The same is usually true of plated, with the caveat that most of them don't want to be driven much past 1200 fps or so. (There are exceptions, like Berry's "thick plate" bullets, which are safe to 1500 fps.)

Short version: in standard .38 Special loads, just about any published load data can be used, whether it is intended for cast or jacketed.

With regard to the 130s, just use data for 125s. As long as you aren't trying to get the last few FPS out of the load, you will be fine.

<edit> And it's always a fine idea to check with the horse's mouth... https://www.berrysmfg.com/faq
 
Centella said:
Hello there folks,
I am a fairly new shooter and I've been enjoying the hobby since July 2022. Mostly into revolvers, I've been shooting 38 specials (S&W 686) and 9mm (Uberti Cattleman single action revolver).
With the price of ammunition the way it is these days, I decided to get into reloading and got myself a little 38 Special Lee Classic Loader to try to save some money (in the long run I guess), but besides that it is a ton of fun.
I already reloaded 50 rounds of 158 grain FMJ, took them to the range a couple of days ago and was very happy with the results. The reloaded rounds worked great!
Unfortunately, the bullets I purchased are now out of stock, and I just can't find any cannelured 158 grain FMJ anywhere. I want to stick to cannelured bullets to make sure I get a proper crimp, and I've been told that as a new reloader I should stick to FMJ until I'm more proficient.
The closest in-stock bullets I've found online are Berry's 158 gr "plated" and Precision Delta's 130 gr FMJ.
So here's my questions. Is there a huge difference between working with 158 gr FMJs vs 158 gr "plated" bullets? As a newbie, is there something I should be aware of? Is moving from FMJ to plated a seamless transition or is there a learning curve?

Regarding Precision Delta's 130 gr FMJs, well, there's no reloading data anywhere for this bullet and the powder I have (N340). So, does anyone have loading data for this situation? Or, is there a formula we can use for adjusting the grains of powder needed for 158 gr vs 130 gr?

Thanks so much for your help folks, you guys have a happy Monday.
Click to expand...
The Xtreme or these: https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/bullets/pistol/357-38/357-147-gr-rmr-fmj-smiley/ are good substitutes. The RMR bullet is lighter - 147gr. - and lacks a cannelure but the powder charge should be the same and RMR states the bullet can, "take a crimp."

The good news is, you have a very good start on a solid process. Hopefully some of the suggested bullets will work out.
Here's a crazy idea: buy a small lot of all of the above and try them all out with your current charge and process. :)
 
If your banging with a hammer on a lee loader your not able to make them fast enough to really drain the bank account. Almost every local store carrys the xtp and its twin the hap. Stick with jacketed for a while till your comfortable. The hap is a jsp made from the same jacket. You may find sierra jhp and jsp. For purposes on paper they are all gooder. Plated bullets are a little more critical on seating stem fit and will deform more easily. They are also more sensitive to crimp.
 
Centella said:
I've been told that as a new reloader I should stick to FMJ until I'm more proficient.
Click to expand...
That's not true. And I can't even imagine what kind of twisted logic whoever it was told you that used to come up with that advice. o_O
Edited to say: I can see some logic behind advising a new reloader to stick with jacketed bullets (rather than cast or swaged lead) but not FMJs (full metal jackets).
Centella said:
I want to stick to cannelured bullets to make sure I get a proper crimp
Click to expand...
Yep, that's good thinking - using cannelured, or bullets with crimp grooves so that you can get proper crimps for use in revolvers is the way to go. The .38 Special is not a notoriously hard kicker (in a medium or large revolver) but if you're shooting revolvers that do have a lot of recoil, without a "proper" crimp, the remaining bullets in your revolver's cylinder can creep forward, out of their cases, as your revolver recoils - just like an inertia (a "whack-a-mole") bullet puller.
At any rate, welcome to THR Centella! :)
 
.308 Norma said:
That's not true. And I can't even imagine what kind of twisted logic whoever it was told you that used to come up with that advice. o_O
Click to expand...
I think I understand the logic behind it: The Lee Classic Loader (a.k.a. Whack-A-Mole) does not have an adjustable flare to accommodate lead or coated bullets. There IS a flaring tool which helps keep from scraping lead/plated but it's an odd tool to use, not terribly effective since it doesn't flare the case mouth enough for a .358" bullet, and it's use for variable flaring is not entirely intuitive.
https://leeprecision.com/flaring-tool-38.html
 
Centella said:
...and I just can't find any cannelured 158 grain FMJ anywhere. I want to stick to cannelured bullets to make sure I get a proper crimp, and I've been told that as a new reloader I should stick to FMJ until I'm more proficient.
Click to expand...

I don't know why a new loader should stick to a full metal jacket. You will have to adjust the dies anytime you change bullets.

Hornady 35750 has a cannelure. It's a .357" 158 grain JHP bullet. MidwayUSA and Midsouth both have them in stock.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
Dippers. They come with one that’s close for all of the powders in the included load tables. It’s up to the reloader to use the dipper and a scale to get the correct charge weight.
Click to expand...

I wonder how many folks don't bother with the scale. I'm aware of a few, and while it probably works most of the time, the thought of a tyro ladling Bullseye into a case has always made my hair stand up.
 
I load some .38 Special, and it never really came to mind to load anything other than LRN OR LSWC at 158 grain bullets. Just thought that was the most standard common bullet type and weight, never have considered jacketed or plated. Seems like odd advice to me to load .38 Special and not just load LRN or any lead 158 grain bullet, and they are relatively common and cheap. They come with a crimp groove and are easy to load. Never had any issues at all.
 
I have been buying the Berry 158 grain plated bullets for 38spl and 357mag for a couple of years because they were the only 38 caliber bullet always avaliable locally.

I never Used the lee Wack a Mollie so I am not familiar on how they work.
If you are committed To reloading why not buy some used reloading equipment and get a press to set up and use.
You would be money ahead and have more options for better loading.
I read somewhere that for cannlure or lead bullets you use a roll crimp.
For FMJ or Plated bullets you use a taper crimp.
So using these berry plated bullets I bought the Lee taper crimp dies on Amazon for the 38spl and for the 357mag.
I also bought the Western reloading manual for $5 that has loading data for the Berry plated bullets.

If you buy yourself good used equipment,
a decent press, powder measure, scale and dial caliper you would be in business.
If you decide it's not for you then you can resell it and recoup most of your money.
Keep in mind if you go with RCBS equipment they has a 100% free replacement warranty if it was bought new or used.
I just received a whole complete stem from RCBS for a set of 44mag dies I picked up that was missing the stem.
there are two semi local guys who sell used reloading equipment plus I have a bunch of used equipment myself.
Then there are several gun forums that I am on that will have used reloading equipment listed.
I would think using a regular press would be more proficient and more accurate the the Wack a Mollie.
Just my personal thoughts.
 
@Centella welcome to THR!
Centella said:
So here's my questions. Is there a huge difference between working with 158 gr FMJs vs 158 gr "plated" bullets?
Click to expand...
Always try to find published load data. VV has N340 data for both the Berrys FP 158 and the XTP 158. If you stick to the data, you’ll be just fine. Mind the starting and max charges, and the published COL.

I find it a lot easier to load FMJs and someone was giving you good advice.

It’s a lot easier to shave lead off a lubed or coated lead bullet, easier to swage them, and if they’re lubed they’ll smoke more, and generally an FMJ will provide better precision. None of these problems are insurmountable, but for a new reloader not having to deal with them is a plus. Plated are in between lead/coated and jacketed.

Most of my training rounds are coated lead these days, so I would encourage you to look at either plated or coated in the future. You’ll also see a lot of suppliers of these with a lot of options. Good luck on your reloading.
 
.38 Special said:
I wonder how many folks don't bother with the scale. I'm aware of a few, and while it probably works most of the time, the thought of a tyro ladling Bullseye into a case has always made my hair stand up.
Click to expand...
If you follow Lee's load tables, they are pretty mediocre, at least with low pressure rounds. I started with 38 Special and 380 ACP back in the day.

The Lee loaders come with one dipper and list of appropriate powders to use with it.

Weighing charges would be ideal but as long as the individual follows directions, the loads are safe.

But...
 
The advice on power data has changed a lot over the year's, and today Berry's says you can use any lead, plated, or jacketed data, which is lazy on their part.

Some low end lead data can stick plated bullets, and some top jacketed data can be over pressure. To see the latter just find published plated data and compare it to jacketed data. To see the former try starting charges of lead data and eventually, if not very soon, you'll stick a plated bullet since they have more friction than lubed lead.

The absolute best is published plated data for your bullet, but if you stick with middle to upper lead data, and go no higher than midrange jacketed data, you'll be OK 99% of the time.

Some low end lead data won't stick bullets, and some top end jacketed data won't be over pressure.

Sounds like you want bang for your buck, so I would look for a cheap coated 158 Gr bullet, use middle to upper lead data, and have fun.

I know you had success with your first try and want to duplicate it, but don't worry, . 38 Spl is easy to load for, and you'll have success again.
 
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