New Rolling Block in .50-70 Gov't

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Cosmoline

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I've been planning on getting a cartridge BP arm for this year's PFD gun. I looked into a Gras or Prussian Mauser, but there are major component costs in both cases and I was dithering about it when I ran across a Remington Rolling Block parts gun with complete components and dies. It also featured a Soule sight! On the down side it appeared to be an old receiver mated to a new heavy barrel, so there was no collector value. But the price was still right and if you factor in the cost of a new Soule, dies and components the rifle itself was only $350. That's my justification anyway :D

I know little about these other than the elegantly simple actions. And I know almost nothing about the .50-70 other than its limited role in history. It's overshadowed by its younger and more famous cousin. But I've found some load data. I'll probably use TB and 2F for loads to start.

Bullets are apparently to be lubed, not paper patched.

I'm hoping for some good accuracy if I can get this incredibly ornate steampunk sight to work. It looks like it has a ladder of gradations to 200 yards, but I guess you have to calibrate it for various loads. Anyone use these soule sights?
 

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I use Soule sights on my Browning and Winchester single shots.
The Soule designation refers to the drum windage adjustment. This is a pretty late black powder era design, well up into the 1880s. Earlier sights had different provisions for windage. Including none, corrections to be made in the front sight.

The elevation graduations are in hundreths of an inch (you CAN read a vernier scale for elevation, I hope.) That works out to one MOA for a sight radius of 36". Few BPCRs are enough different from that to matter until you get out to very long range.
So the graduations are simply up to 2.00 inches = 200 MOA, which is way more than 200 yards.

The windage on the Soule drum is probably three MOA/hundreths per revolution with half minute hash marks; the threads are very fine and allow small adjustments.
 
Nice! Sharps always get all the press when it comes to classic BP single shots breach loaders, but the Rolling Block is a solid choice, too, and I have given some serious consideration to picking one up some day.
 
Well, that is the coolest thing I've seen all day.
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Thanks! I know it's not a Sharps or anything too fancy, but I like the balance of it. It's not light, but it's quicker in the hand than the big Sharps I've handled. It's not much more than a barrel with some attachments.

The soule sight is going to take some getting used to. Esp. with my old eyes. I have a feeling I'll end up putting a standard flip up rear on there and use it most of the time.

As far as patched bullets, that's what the fellow told me. Something about the lack of space between the end of the bullet and the start of the lands, but I'm no expert on paper patches.

(you CAN read a vernier scale for elevation, I hope.)
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Sure, but I'm not sure I can shoot that fine.
 
Excellent! Congratulations on the find, and thanks for the picture. State of the art, 1890s style :D.
 
I'm hoping for some good accuracy if I can get this incredibly ornate steampunk sight to work. It looks like it has a ladder of gradations to 200 yards, but I guess you have to calibrate it for various loads. Anyone use these soule sights?
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Those sights are probably calibrated out to 2,000 yards -- the old time sight makers were wildly optimistic. They appear to be set right now for 100 to 200 yards.

To zero them, the first thing to do is boresight -- see if the sights are pointing where the bore is pointed. Then shoot them in.

The Soule is easy to use -- elevation and windage changes are simple if the sight has been properly mounted, that is, aligned vertically. If not, elevation changes will produce windage changes, too.

If windage changes when you change elevation, you will have to shim the sight base -- paper or a sliver of coke can under the base will straighten it out.

The eyepiece is adjustable. The way to use it is to twist until the front sight appears black and crisp.

As far as patched bullets, that's what the fellow told me. Something about the lack of space between the end of the bullet and the start of the lands, but I'm no expert on paper patches.
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Check your mould. If there are lube grooves on the bullet, it was meant to be lubed. If it is smooth-sided, it was meant to be paper-patched.
 
Thanks for those tips! The sights look vertically square, for what that's worth. I'm not sure who made them. They don't appear to be antique.

The seller's idea on the patched bullets was that the rifling and chamber arrangement were designed for grooved and lubed bullets, not PP bullets. I had never heard that before, but in any case I have always run with lubed cast bullets because I have never mastered the fine art of paper patching. It's like oragami.
 
The rear sight LOOKS LIKE a Red River, previously known as Parts Unknown, made in the Ukraine. Strictly modern.

My eyes are 66 years old and do just fine with my Baldwin Soules. But then I don't shoot BPCR any farther than 600 yards. Peep sights are underappreciated these days. I wouldn't use a "standard flip up rear" for anything but woods hunting. Which I don't do anyhow.
 
I've been practicing using the soule and I think I'm getting the hang of it. All I need is the shellholder and a long brass tube to drop powder through and I'll be ready to start rolling.

I'll probably also do some light trailboss loads. The barrel is new and very sturdy, but the receiver is older than my great grandfathers.
 
I would skip on the Trailboss. Some recently loaded TB .44Spl loads using .44Mag brass and bullets showed that it slaps every bit as hard as any other powder when used in more than very light loadings. By the time you download to achieve peak pressure that is similar to black powder I think you'll find that the bullet hits the ground about 50 feet in front of the muzzle.

The "problem" is that a compressed slug of BP burns from the back to the front. That's why we find powder still burning being shot forward out the muzzle. This fairly long burn time is what provides the softer "push" we associate with true BP rounds. It also means that the pressure never really gets all that high since half the powder is still burning when the bullet is well down the barrel. So the "chamber" is constantly growing as the powder burns.

On the other hand Trail Boss will be a shallow dusting on the "floor" of the casing. When it goes off it'll basically all go at once because the top surface, which covers the whole length of the inside volume, is exposed and will light off. The powder burning violently on top produces turbulence that blows the powder below it around and lights it off as well so the TB will basically burn all at once before the bullet has moved more than a small fraction of the barrel. And that's why TB will produce a SMACK and high chamber pressures rather than a longer and softer push.

And as you say, the receiver is older than your grandfather.

Oh, did I mention that I'm also envious of your new rifle? Mix and match or not it's stil going to handle and feel like a true classic. You'll have to enjoy it for the lot of us. And a nice range report on what it handles like and feels like when it shoots would be appreciated for the rest of us.
 
On the other hand Trail Boss will be a shallow dusting on the "floor" of the casing. When it goes off it'll basically all go at once because the top surface, which covers the whole length of the inside volume, is exposed and will light off.
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I'm not following that. I just checked and 13 grains TB (the .45-70 load) only leaves enough room, uncompressed, for the bullet with a little space that could have soft filler if desired. Obviously under no circumstances would I go below published data on that or any other powder. If someone is fiddling with that, I don't want to be near them.

That said, I've found TB with proper load amounts (which typically fill the case) are gentle and very accurate out of the .357, .44 mag, .450 Marlin and even the 54R. I love the stuff. Do you actually think it's dangerous?
 
Swung over to the range today. Shoots great! These are my first BP cartridge loads so I have some tweaking to do to improve accuracy. I still got a good 3" at fifty but I haven't slugged the bore, checked twist or anything like that yet. I loaded with 70 grains 2F highly compacted and all I had to shoot were some 515 grainers which were probably a bit too long. It's a ton of fun--and a great way to keep the black powder burning after the cold and rain arrive.

This is how I roll:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp0HydS4SZQ
 
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Where are you shooting? That dosn't look like Birchwood. Sweet gun BTW. You need to let me pop a cap.
 
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Jim I was just at Rabbit Creek. Once I get it calibrated I'd like to go ring the Birchwood gong with it though.

I have no mold yet because I'm not really sure what weight it's going to like. The bore slugs tight at .510" but I'm not at all sure where it came from. I thought it was new but after removing the wood it's clear the barrel has been around a long, long time. It was just well refinished. I've been reading up and there's a wide variation in twist rates for these .50 cal bores.

I'm checking twist tonight.
 
Cosmoline, great gun! Where did you find it?


Hey! Be careful out there, remember Anchorage is the 5th most dangerous city in the US. Why just the other day, a guy with a rifle on his back rode his bike right past my house! In broad daylight yet! :neener:
 
Cosmoline,

The 50-70 is a great hunting cartridge and a better target one. Most ignore it because it is not that common. I have a trapdoor and am building a rolling block (Pedersoli action). On one of the other forums (caters to cast bullets) they have a group buy going for a 450 hollow base bullet mold.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=116326

I use the Lyman 515141 and the Lee 515-450 in my Trapdoor. All the 2f I can stuff in the case and light it off with large rifle primers. It rocks. Accuracy is sufficient to as far as I care to shoot. It was the Big 50 of it's day. And it probably accoutned for more buffalo than the other cartridges. It definately is steeped in history and a lot of fun to shoot.

Once you get used to it, you will get rid of your smallbores and never look back!
 
Thanks for the tips!

Twist is 1:24 so the problem isn't the heavy bullets. In fact this one could take 600 grainers I'm sure.

I'm going to eliminate some potential variables by cross-checking my accuracy with a simple rear sight from some old Winchester levergun. I *think* I'm using the soules correctly, but they're new to me so I cannot be sure.

I'm also going to be very precise about each load, and consistent. That seems to be one of the most critical things with BPC. There's little room for slop.

I discovered the mystery of the barrel. It used to be .45 caliber, but was rebored to .50-70 when the rifle was built. It's pretty beefy. I'm not sure where it came from.

Where did you find it?
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GNG. It's my PFD rifle. Or half my PFD rifle. The other one was an Israeli Mauser. I paid $600 for the roller, which included a full array of dies plus the powder ram, 100 used brass and some odd bullets. The soule and components would have run me hundreds even if I could have found them. There's no .50-70 brass to be had out there right now.
 
In reading BPCR literature, I'm starting to think Rolling Blocks are the Ward Bond of these type of rifles. The Sharps are the John Wayne--getting all the respect.

I'm just hoping I don't get the Gabby Hayes.
 
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