New to 308 reloading and need some help Please

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Hickwithstick

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Hi all,
Maybe a stupid question but is all Lake city brass made for military use? the reason I ask is I have read that military brass is thicker therefore requiring a smaller max charge (my Hornady Book says to use 2 full grains less for military brass)?

I also have some WCC brass I got from shooting some winchester white box 7.62x51 cartridges. is this also military brass (thicker) since it is labeled with the NATO size rather than the 308 WIN markings on the box? I have also seen White box Winchester 308 cartridges. :confused:
 
Lake City is military brass (Federal). Winchester WCC is also military brass and is a little thicker than the commercial brass backing down a grain or two is recommended.

Regardless one thing you should always do when reloading is work up from a safe lower pressure load to higher pressure loads checking for pressure signs anytime you change anything. Even different lot numbers of powder can vary...things to keep in mind.
 
What are you shooting, bolt or semi auto?
I load LC and WCC but it is a little heavier brass than retail brass. I have a semi auto so I never load to max. It helps when I run a lot of bullet because I can dump the same powder load w/o causing any problems. When I load match stuff, use a trickler and weigh each case, bullet and powder.
 
My 308

I'm loading for a DPMS AR-10 platformed 7.62x51, The Brass I have is headstamped WCC 08 and WCC 09 So I am assuming it is winchester military brass (it does have the cross on the headstamp as well) that was made in 2008 and 2009 correct. Using benchmark Powder if anyone cares to give some advice on loads it is always appreciated:)
I loaded 5 test rounds to see how it would shoot them and it ate them nicely
load was:
military CCI #34 Primer
Hornady 180g BTSP bullet
Benchmark powder 39 gr
and the WCC brass
Seated them to an OAL of 2.806 (listed max was 2.810) I used a fired round and let the rifling push a bullet back into the case to measure clearance on my throat and it was 2.826 so I subtracted .020 to get the 2.806 OAL is this correct?
 
I usually work up loads using GI brass (same headstamp). I have found little if any diffrence using the same load in commercial brass. It may make a difference if you're trying to shoot .5 MOA groups but not for general usage.
 
military CCI #34 Primer
Hornady 180g BTSP bullet
Benchmark powder 39 gr
and the WCC brass

The AOL sounds about right but I don't know anything about Benchmark, never used it.
I found my best shots for my AR is:
Hornady 168 gn BTHP.
41.7 gn Varget
and a combo of LRP's win, CCI, both did fine.
After shooting about a thousand reloads, (all different brands of range brass) I had one occasion where the round hung on the feed ramp, I ejected it and saw the bullet had been shoved back into the case. After that incident I used the LFCD and put a very slight crimp one every bullet. Since then I've had no problems.
 
Brass can be different between lot numbers-same manufacture.

http://www.6mmbr.com/308Win.html
Preferred Brass
For a 6BR, there is one clear choice in brass--Lapua, with Norma the only real second choice. For the .308 Winchester, choice of brass is not so simple. Most of the .308 Win precision shooters we've interviewed do prefer Lapua brass, but others are very happy with Norma, Winchester, Hornady Match and even Remington. Black Hills uses Winchester-made brass for its match ammo, which is capable of .5 MOA or better in many rifles. The main advantage of Lapua brass is consistency and quality. Case-wall thickness is very uniform and most lots have shown less variation in weight than other headstamps. But Winchester brass performs very well in the .308. And, at $24/100, Winchester costs 40% less than Lapua brass. Even if you can potentially get more loadings out of a Lapua case, Winchester brass offers more bang for the buck. You'll find a lot of once-fired Federal Gold Medal Match brass available. While it tends to shoot accurately, we've found GMM brass is relatively soft compared to Lapua or Winchester, so the primer pockets tend to loosen up after just three or four reloadings.

In addition to commercial brass, many .308 Win shooters reload boxer-primed military cases such as Lake City, IMI, and Hirtenberger. The Lake City Match brass is pretty good. Some lots have been excellent. The standard Lake City fodder is inferior to Winchester. IMI brass has a reputation for being strong, but we advise you only to purchase it new. Some used lots of IMI brass from Israel have been defective. If you are looking for ultimate accuracy, IMI will probably disappoint you, though it's good for gas guns that are tough on cases.

The most important thing to remember about military brass is that the internal capacity will probably be less than commercial .308 Win brass, because military brass often has thicker webs or casewalls. Montana Marine reports his fire-formed milsurp cases hold 56 grains of H20 on average compared to 58 grains for fire-formed Winchester. Given the reduced capacity of military brass, you should reduce posted max loads by 1.5 grains when loading with Lake City or most other milsurp brass. However, the IMI MATCH brass is closer to commercial brass in internal case capacity (ICC). Kevin Beggs reports: "Fired, my IMI Match brass runs with an ICC of 55.0gr and bumping the shoulder back .001" will net me an ICC average of 54.0gr. LAPUA runs an average of 54.4gr and Federal runs an average of 54.3gr ICC."
 
Thanks for the help

AR the Benchmark and Varget powders appear to be very close when I compare the max load listed on the bottle the benchmark comes in and the Varget loads listed in my hornady book, Benchmark is about .7 grains lower for the same weight bullet and velocity listing.
I plan to use the 168 grain bullets if they ever get any in stock at our local gun shops but for now the only thing available is the 180's, I have read that the 168g BTHP are the most accurate projectile for the 308 cartridge.
I Take my family out shooting alot, Just about every weekend, and we don't need a range as their is alot of open public land here we can use (SW Wyoming) We shoot bottles left behind by others, can's and a few targets, but I also hunt and will be taking both my boys hunting for their first time this year. I purchased them both Ruger M77 7MM Magnums and they are shooting them to get used to the recoil and to improve their aim to humainly take the game animals, for a 12 and 14 yr old they both shoot very well and in their words "These guns are awsome, Can we shoot them some more?" :D
Anyway I plan to use my AR to hunt instead of my bolt rifle this year and I think the 168g bullet would be more than enough to take the game animals with (Deer and Elk) since I used to hunt with a 7 Mag and a 140 grain bullet.
I normally take head shots (Hate tracking wounded animals) and if I Zero my scope and practice with the 168 grain bullets then it should be just as accurate when we go hunting.
 
I was raised just South of you, CO WY border. Area was a place called Woods Landing and the closest town was Laramie, 78 mi. I also worked a couple of ranches just off 287, Roberts Cattle Co. all range cattle were "across the street" in WY. We had a hell of a time during spring roundup because the antelope.they would mix in with the range cattle. We carried 30-30 saddle guns and they were the hardest damn animals to shoot. When we ran up on a herd of them they looked liked over grown jackrabbits bouncing everywhere.
 
I think the 168g bullet would be more than enough to take the game animals with (Deer and Elk) since I used to hunt with a 7 Mag and a 140 grain bullet.

Welcome to THR, Hickwithstick.
Please be aware that many of the match BTHP bullets are not designed for hunting game. The jacket construction is not conducive to proper expansion for game. Yes, they will punch a hole in game, but more than likely, will pass through without expanding leading to a possibility of game lost.
That's why they make 165gr soft points or ballistic tips. They are designed to expand and impart the bullet energy on the game.


NCsmitty
 
LC brass was made to be used in military rifles and machine guns. I believe it was "quarter hard" brass, and it is thicker than some commerical brass.

It is also excellent brass and I use it all the time in any bolt or gas gun 308.

C.E. Harris weighed a bunch of 308 LC brass in his May 1983 American Rifleman Article “Assembling Highpower Loads” . At that time commercial brass averaged 164 grains, and LC match averaged between 177 or 180 grains depending on year.

My vintage LC 308 match brass has not changed, but commercial brass has a wide weight spread. There is absolutely no consistency between brands or lots.

I was given 500 (80’s vintage) once fired Federal 308 NM cases, and sorted them by weight. I filled 20 round boxes with cases that averaged 151-155 grains, 156-160, 160-164, and 165-170 grains. Then I picked up some late production Federal cases and they weighed 177 grains. Just as heavy as LC.

My IMI 308 cases are just as heavy as LC.


My recommendation: stay away from maximum loads. If you have a maximum load, you can’t change anything. Primers, cases, powder, OAL. When I have changed cases, or a changed of primers, I have gotten blown and leaking primers.
 
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