Newbie question - close slide by racking or by pressing slide stop

[Shawn Dodson]

Tap:
Briskly strike magazine baseplate with heel of support hand.

Roll & Rack:
Grasp slide using overhand method. Roll pistol in direction of ejection port and simultaneously retract and release slide.

The purpose of rolling the pistol is to use centrifugal force and gravity to help clear the action.

Retract the slide forcefully, like you’re trying to rip it off the frame. (You can also push forward with your firing hand at the same time.) When the slide reaches its rear most travel it will slip out the grasp of your support hand and go into battery.

 

[BluesDancer]

I use the slide release, on a pistol with a slide mounted safety like a Beretta 92 couldn't you run the risk of placing the weapon on safe/decock?

I slingshot my Beretta M9, but I do understand what you're saying. I just try to make it work, and it does.

 

[Gunfighter123]

You're doing it wrong.

Same thing my wife said about sex !!!!

I agree with ya Reaper --- that is a good drill to learn -- not EXACTLLY the same way we were taught in the 1970s --- gun craft will always be evolveing and improveing -- some "big name" instructors did in fact tell people to "hard tap" a slide that does not go completely into battery just a few years ago.

I just posted a {not quite correct} example of something --- my main point being to keep a open mind and not be a drone/slave --- I think you would agree with that.

 

[Dimis]

i may be talking out my rear here but why not learn both... i mean shouldnt you know your weapon better than anyone and be able to instinctivly do any of these motions when called upon?

i agree with RC about slide stops and injured support arms/hands

same goes for the belt technique shawn described

personaly i practice as much of these as possable so when one idea fails i have a backup plan or two maybe even three

in an ideal world i would just simply use the slide release but not every guns slide release is "easy" to operate ive handled alot of guns that took alot of pressure to force it down but instead of doing that i have the choise of "racking" the slide (i personaly dont care which method you use for that slingshot,overhand whatever works for you) or i can pull the slide back enough to operate the stop as long as ive drilled these motions in my head i can get the gun back up and running

as for tactical reloads ive never heard an instructer tell anyone to reload anything unless it was safe for them to do so which means the imediate threat is gone or your behind cover and can reload
it really is best in a "tactical"(and i hate useing that word) situation to be at full or as close to full capacity as you can be its just the smart thing to do

 

[Boats]

Reaper responds in crayon

C'mon REAPER, give us the goods. There may even be some treatment concepts for a Hollywood blockbuster in there.

Detail coming into sudden possession of another pistol, different from your own, or those of your own force, and its spare magazines, in the middle of a gun fight, where you absolutely must overhand it RFN.

Better yet, detail for the readers the capturing of such a weapon and its magazines from the enemy in the heat of battle Mr. Bauer.

 

[JohnKSa]

Be aware that pulling the slide back to release the stop MAY work on SOME guns but will not release it on many guns. The slide stop will release it on every gun.

Which guns will not go into battery if a locked back slide is racked on a full magazine?

Can you explain how the slide stop/release will release the slide on a Walther PPK, a Kel-Tec P32 or a CZ-52?

For what it's worth, sling-shotting the slide seems to be a slightly more reliable technique than using the slide stop/release. You get a tiny bit more slide travel and therefore more spring compression and more forward force to strip the round from the magazine and put the gun into battery.

 

[9mmepiphany]

posted by Gunfighter123:
you give the rear of the slide a hard Tap to seat the slide all the way to full battery

you're Tapping the wrong part, you should be tapping the bottom of the mag. if you are actively engaged, any round that doesn't go off when you pull the trigger is useless. although there is a school of thought that most modern ammo is of such high quality that a 2nd hammer fall will ignite it...it has been my experience that most folks who don't get idnition when they drop the hammer will pull the trigger again before going to tap & rack anyway

posted by Gunfighter123:
More movement equals more time -- Newtons Law etc.

i'll repeat...it isn't the distance the reloading hand travels that determines the "quickness" of the next shot

posted byShawn Dodson:
When forced to use one hand, it doesn't matter strong or weak hand, I snag the rear sight on my belt (or other suitable object) and press forward on the slide to retract and release the slide. I still operate the slide lock to lock open the slide only.

this is something i also do and it is a good skill to practice. it puts you at a disadvantage when you choose to put Novak style rear sights on a fighting gun

posted by mijdeckard:
I find myself using the slide stop when I manually opened the action with the slide stop. For example, my .22 conversion slide does not automatically lock open when it's empty. So if I lock it open before reloading, I use the slide stop to drop it. Just an idiosyncracy.

i have the same idiosyncracy with my .22 conversion unit, i figure it was because of the adjustable rear sight

 

[REAPER4206969]

my main point being to keep a open mind and not be a drone/slave --- I think you would agree with that.

Yep.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Clearing stoppages (failure to feed, failure to fire, failure to extract, failure to eject):

1. Misfire
2. Finger off trigger
3. Tap, roll & rack
4. Recover/Assess: Reengage?
5. Misfire
6. Finger off trigger
7. Obtain fresh magazine from carrier
8. Jettison “depleted” magazine

a. If “depleted” magazine is stuck
b. Put fresh magazine between ring and pinky fingers
c. Retract and lock slide
d. Forcibly remove and discard “depleted” magazine
e. Roll & rack, rack, rack
f. Retrieve fresh magazine from ring & pinky fingers​

9. Install & seat magazine
10. Roll & rack
11. Recover/Assess: Reengage?

Steps 1-4 clear failure to feed, failure to fire and failure to eject (in most cases)

If steps 1-4 fail to get the gun running then you immediately perform a Combat Reload, steps 5-8 and 9-11.

If you cannot insert the fresh magazine because the "depleted" magazine did not jettison, steps 8a-8f clear a doublefeed, which jams the magazine in place. When the doublefeed is cleared, you simply continue and complete your Combat Reload (steps 9-11).

You simply progress through the procedure until you get the gun back up and running.

This is why I "retract and release." Manually releasing the slide lock would add complexity to my routine.

 

[EddieNFL]

Has it been a month already?

 

[Drail]

I think there is some confusion here, some of you are talking about reloading an empty gun with the slide forward and some of you are talking about releasing the slide to go forward on a gun that is locked back. I was talking about releasing a locked back slide. I have 2 SA 1911s in front of me right now and neither of them will release from slide lock by pulling the slide back a little more. JohnKSa, I think you misunderstood what I was referring to. I didn't mean they "would not go into battery", rather they would remain locked back if the slide stop was not depressed and a "slingshot release" method was employed because that action will not cause the slide stop to release the slide.

 

[REAPER4206969]

I have 2 SA 1911s in front of me right now and neither of them will release from slide lock by pulling the slide back a little more.

Have you removed the depleted magazine?

 

[JohnKSa]

I think you misunderstood what I was referring to. I didn't mean they "would not go into battery", rather they would remain locked back if the slide stop was not depressed and a "slingshot release" method was employed because that action will not cause the slide stop to release the slide.

No, I understand what you mean. Semi-auto centerfire pistols can be taken out of slide lock by pulling back on the slide and releasing it as long as the slide stop/release is not being pressed upward and as long as an empty magazine is not in place.

I have 2 SA 1911s in front of me right now and neither of them will release from slide lock by pulling the slide back a little more.

Assuming that there is no magazine inplace or there is a full magazine in place then the guns are defective if the slide won't release from slide lock by pulling the slide all the way back and releasing it.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Assuming that there is no magazine inplace or there is a full magazine in place then the guns are defective if the slide won't release from slide lock by pulling the slide all the way back and releasing it.

that's my first thought too

you need to have that looked at and corrected

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I prefer to press the slide stop. There is no guarantee that you will have both hands available.

 

[JohnKSa]

If you need to operate the gun one handed you can still do it one of two ways. You can rack it one-handed by hooking the rear sight on your belt or another convenient edge or you can drop the slide using the slide stop/release.

The advantage to practicing the one-handed slide rack is that the technique also allows you to clear stoppages one-handed too.

The fact that I advocate using the slide rack technique for charging/reloading doesn't mean I take the slide stops/releases off my guns. It just means that I only use them to lock the slide open or as a contingency solution for dropping the slide when other methods don't make sense or aren't possible.

 

[bad4dr]

Sounds like there's points aplenty for both methods, but I'll add mine.

I was taught to use the overhand method when reloading because it doesn't rely on fine motor skills like using the thumb to depress the slide release does. And in a panic situation, fine motor skills go right out the window.

That being said, I still sometimes use the slide release at the range. However, I'm trying to break myself of that habit.

 

[RobMoore]

Any task you perform with your fingers is a fine motor skill, to include grabbing a slide.

I see more people screw up the slingshot than anything else.
Next would be the release with the weak thumb, then overhand, and finally the release with the strong hand thumb. This is the most consistent I see because the thumb is already there. Unless the gun is new, and the release stiff, thumbing it doesn't take any thought.

Its something I do automatically the moment the magazine is seated, before the heel of my weak hand even comes off the basepad.

People who have trouble with it are the ones who are trying to look for it after they've seated the mag, when they should have already had their thumb on it.

 

[bad4dr]

"Any task you perform with your fingers is a fine motor skill, to include grabbing a slide."

Not necessarily. If this was the case, the act of merely holding a gun would be a fine motor skill. If done properly, the overhand method uses mostly your arm and your grip. These are not fine motor skills, as anyone who has handled an infant can attest to. "Reach and grab" motions differ greatly from dexterous maneuvers with individual digits.

If the slide release works for you, by all means use it. To the OP, use the method you're comfortable with.

 

[Drail]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with your opinion of the gun being defective by not releasing the slide stop by simply pulling the slide back a little when it is locked open. I built this gun many years ago and shot IPSC for 10 years with this gun and it functions perfectly. I have seen other 1911s exhibit the same behavior. When the slide on this gun is fully locked back there is no remaining travel left but the slide stop works perfectly. How is this a defect? Yes, I am running a shok buff and the slide stop has been modified to NEVER lock open on an empty magazine(we won't go into that subject) but even if I remove it and the slide is now free to be pulled back a little more the slide stop remains up (with no magazine in place). Normal pressure on the slide stop will release the slide. So what is the defect? I think whether a gun does this or not is dependent on the amount of slide travel and the angles on the stop engagement surfaces and whether or not the stop has dimples for the plunger to hold it (up or down). My stop has been dimpled to hold the stop in the up and the down position. In other words. it will only lock or release the slide with manual thumb pressure. I understand that some may think this is odd but I hardly consider it "defective". It was set up this way for competition but I can't see how any of these mods would be disadvantagous or defective. Given all of the slide stop malfunctions I have seen in matches I don't want my slide stop moving up or down unless I move it. I suppose most people are of the mindset that a 1911 MUST lock open on the last shot. I don't see any advantage and I have seen disadvantages to it.

 

[Gunfighter123]

Putting a "dimple" on the face of the slide stop was SOP with guns I had built by Jim Clark Sr. , Bill Wilson , and Steve Nastoff in the early/mid-80s. I say SOP because I DID NOT request it but they all were "top shelf" guns back then. { still are to me }


Ps ---- I also use Shok-Buffs in ALL my 1911s be they .45acp , 10mm , or .38 Super --- never had problems because of them and I change them out { $1 } every 5000 rds.

 

[JohnKSa]

I am running a shok buff and the slide stop has been modified to NEVER lock open on an empty magazine... My stop has been dimpled to hold the stop in the up and the down position.

If you had just said up front that your guns were intentionally modified to NOT release the slide when the slide is pulled back that would have saved some pointless verbiage, wouldn't it?

People can modify a gun to work any way they want it to.

Let's say in a thread about Ruger P95 pistols I made the claim that I had three of them that wouldn't chamber 9mm ammunition and then sat by for awhile continuing to make the assertion in the face of claims that the pistols should chamber 9mm and that if they didn't they must be defective. Then after awhile I finally admitted that I had modified them so they wouldn't chamber 9mm ammunition.

What would be the point of my doing something like that? Besides trolling, I mean.

As far as your opinion of whether the gun is defective or not, let me ask you this. Mr. John Browning designed the 1911. If you simply handed him your gun to test, what would his assessment of its performance be? You and I both know that he would tell you that on a 1911 the slide is supposed to lock open on empty and that pulling the slide back should allow the slide to drop. You and I both know that he would tell you that it needed some remedial service to operate the way he intended it. He would tell you that it was defective and that it didn't work as it should.

It's your gun, you can set it up any way you want it to. That's purely up to you and nobody else and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. But throwing the operation of your specially modified guns into a general discussion on how to operate guns WITHOUT explaining that they are specially modified until you get pushed into a corner is pure trolling as far as I'm concerned.

 

[1SOW]

Newbie question - close slide by racking or by pressing slide stop

I believe your instructor was correct----mostly.

Your gun is designed to shoot and cycle reliably with your slide being cycled all the way to maximum recoil spring tension. In most guns, using the slide release does not give full recoil spring force, so the "most reliable" method is to pull it to the rear and release the slide.

Having said that, I'm a hypocrite; because when I slam a mag in on a combat reload, the top round will lift the slide enough to release it and be ready to shoot on a typical CZ. I really like that feature for speed. This is the same as using the slide release.

Now the downside: I know no one ever shoots a dirty gun except me; but after a long match or on a day where I shoot twice, this slide release method can fail to feed. The rails are dirty or sooty or need oil and the light recoil spring I use may not feed with 100% reliability.

You make your choices and understand/deal with the possible results.

 

[LiveLife]

Wow, talk about setting off a charge ... 3 pages in one day??? Let's all take a deeeeeeep breath.

You know, there's more than one way to skin a cat:

Of course, there's the "ideal" way to chamber a round - Plan A.
But, there are other ways to chamber a round too - Plan B/C, etc.


I think more time should be spent on how quickly and accurately send the bullet down range than argue about how to chamber ... Kinda like arguing about positions vs happy ending.

 

[CHEVELLE427]

don't use the slid release for the baby eagles or any step child of the same model,
it will wear out the plastic notch in the mag's and the gun will stop staying open on last round sooner then later