Newbie Questions About Starter Kit

[HGM22]

http://www.cabelas.com/product/shoo...uts?destination=/catalog/browse.cmd?N=1100207

I have some questions about this kit (keep in mind I'm a BP newbie):

1. Do I need a capping tool? It seems easy enough to just place the cap on the nipple.

2. Why are there two different wad sizes?

3. Do I need a nipple wrench? I assume its only needed if a nipple needs replacing, and how often does a nipple need replacing?

4. Does this powder flask work well? Most people I've seen use something larger and not necessarily purpose-built.

5. Are all powder measures basically the same?

Some other questions I have, but not kit related are:

6. What is the best cap size for Pietta .44 revolvers?

7. Who makes a Mini(e) ball intended for C&B revolvers? Anything different in using this bullet over ball?

 

[badkarmamib]

Some observations:

1.) You can place caps on the nipples, and they MAY stay on during firing, but the act of pulling the capper off puts a crimp on the cap.

2.) Different wad sizes to take up the empty space for low and regular powder charges, if you even use wads.

3.) You really need to remove nipples as part of the cleaning process after every firing session, to remove build-up on the nipples. If you don't, when nipples need replacing, you will find that they CANNOT be removed. Also, put never-seize or Teflon tape on the threads before re-installing, and it will make it much easier.

4.) A flask is generally a flask, the one that works for you works.

5.) Powder measures are another subjective item. I have the one in the kit, and it works fantastic for pistols and revolvers.

6.) #10's. #11's tend to fall off easier. I use Remington brand #10's with great success.

7.) Can't help you there, I only use round balls in mine.

 

[Blackpowdershooter44]

You've got all the right answers there. The minie ball for a cap and ball revolver is actually called a conical bullet, it looks a lot like the minie ball. They can be cast from a lee mold which is right around $25-28, or you can buy them from here,
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=3630
I've never used them myself, I have only used round balls and they work great.
As for the nipple wrench in the kit, it may not be a good one, a lot of wrenches are made of soft steel and strip rather easily, here is some good ones.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nipple-Wren...182597?hash=item5b1bd84685:g:iqAAAOSw14xWNlZg
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ted-Cash-Ra...999418?hash=item56870d8bfa:g:FiIAAOxyQQRR7nan

 

[rodwha]

1) I have two capping tools but don't use them. I don't have large fingers though. Some guns (Remington NMA) have a smaller opening for the nipples that won't allow a capper unless you modify it.

2) I've never seen a kit with various width wads. I've considered trying this as I punch my own wads.

3) There are some people who only remove the nipples every few times as they also don't break down the action parts for cleaning. I remove the nipples each time, and almost always clean the action too. It doesn't hurt and I enjoy doing it.

4) I had bought a Pietta Remington that came with a kit (doubt it was the one your link shows) and the flask it came with I didn't care much for. I've been using a brass flask given to me by my father.

5) I was given an adjustable powder measure meant for a rifle that has a sliding funnel. Because of that it is much easier to use. I noticed between the two measures they read quite a bit differently. I don't use the one in the kit that looks identical.

6) I second the Rem #10 caps. They fit well.

7) I'm not sure which pistol you are interested in. My Pietta Remington's frame is designed in a blocky fashion that doesn't allow one to load a conical. I modified mine so that it will load the ones I use (custom).

Some of these guns have a slow twist that doesn't shoot conicals nearly as accurately as a ball. My 2013 Pietta came with a faster twist (1:16") that shoots my bullets just as well as a ball at 15 yds. However two of my custom bullets are rather short (0.400" and 0.460") so as to shoot (theoretically) well in a slow twist.

Quite frankly I feel you can get better accessories buying individual ones. But if you have nothing these will certainly get you started. And if it's free why not?

 

[4v50 Gary]

Cappers are nice especially in cold weather where you have gloved hands and reduced fine motor skills.

Wads are different size, depending on the bore.

 

[rodwha]

I can see a capper being quite advantageous in cold weather as you say. However the wads aren't differentiated by diameter but thickness.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

I use a capper because it is easier than digging around in the grass to find the caps you dropped.....

 

[col.lemat]

Every time I go out shooting I ask myself Why didn't I bring the capper? Now that the eye sight is not as good as it once was and the fingers are fatter, getting them pesky caps on is a chore. Cappers are a good thing and were used back in the day when cap and ball were state of the art firearms.

 

[Oohrah!]

I bought that same kit.

I found the capper clumsy to use. I use #10 Remingtons and have never had a problem, installing by thumb.

I found the 10mm wads too thick, so I cut them in half with a razor knife. My standard load now is powder/wad/ball, instead of using a grease cover. I have not had a chain fire with this load.

The nipple wrench is good quality. I remove my nipples for every cleaning. I've found that a standard paperclip works great for reaming the cap hole.

Before each shoot, I pop a cap only on every cylinder to clear it out of anything left after cleaning.

The flask works just fine, it is a 24gr load, which is fine for .44, but too much for .36. You can get other sizes from Track of the Wolf.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

I think the worst "feature" of the kit is the plastic flask. With the number of folks who are very much concerned with period correct historical accuracy and where proof marks are located on revolvers etc, I think many folks would be disappointed with it.

Me, I'd rather reuse a plastic ketchup or mustard bottle than buy that one, but I'm sure it works OK

 

[HGM22]

Thanks for the replies guys, I'm learning a lot from this thread. I like the ketchup bottle idea for a flask as period-correct doesn't mean anything to me (I just want to launch some lead the old-fashioned way). While I realize now that I will need a nipple wrench for cleaning, I also think buying a "kit" piecemeal will be better than getting this particular kit.

I was thinking I'd load the revolver: powder, wad, ball, Crisco. Again, I like the idea of using as little purpose-made stuff as possible hence the Crisco.

Sounds like I can hold off on a capper for now, and get one later if I feel the need. Would a benefit of using a capper be reduced risk of a cap going off prematurely and injuring oneself (that little bit of distance between finger and cap might make a big difference)? Do caps go off like that i.e. when they are squeezed onto a nipple or bent?

 

[badkarmamib]

It takes impact to detonate a cap, not finger pressure, so you will be safe, as long as you keep your booger hook off the bang switch while loading.

 

[Crawdad1]

Thanks for the replies guys, I'm learning a lot from this thread. I like the ketchup bottle idea for a flask as period-correct doesn't mean anything to me (I just want to launch some lead the old-fashioned way). While I realize now that I will need a nipple wrench for cleaning, I also think buying a "kit" piecemeal will be better than getting this particular kit.

I was thinking I'd load the revolver: powder, wad, ball, Crisco. Again, I like the idea of using as little purpose-made stuff as possible hence the Crisco.

Sounds like I can hold off on a capper for now, and get one later if I feel the need. Would a benefit of using a capper be reduced risk of a cap going off prematurely and injuring oneself (that little bit of distance between finger and cap might make a big difference)? Do caps go off like that i.e. when they are squeezed onto a nipple or bent?

Buy good tools, because you'll be using them. Ted Cash makes good stuff and extra heavy duty tools for these guns.

I've never had a cap go off on me pushing it on to a nipple.

 

[Blackpowdershooter44]

100 round balls $10-15
1lb of black powder $20-30
percussion caps are generally $8-10
Good nipple wrench $11-20
Powder measures $10-20

Felt wads can be punched yourself, You can buy a sheet of felt from durofelt and get around 1500 wads for $22. Beeswax/mutton tallow is a common mixture for lube, some use olive oil in place of the tallow. Or you can buy a pack of 100 for around $10.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/partdetail.aspx/203/1/ox-wad-44-w
http://www.durofelt.com/image_26.html
Crisco is very messy, use a popsicle stick to apply it to the chamber mouths.
Treso powder measure
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Treso-Delux...641119?hash=item5688b3535f:g:BsUAAOSwKtVWvg5c
Either of these nipple wrenches will work great
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nipple-Wren...182597?hash=item5b1bd84685:g:iqAAAOSw14xWNlZg
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ted-Cash-11...460748?hash=item1c3a9d224c:g:S-kAAOxyV85Ry35l
Round balls:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2149111743/speer-muzzleloading-bullets-round-ball

So all of these accessories excluding the powder and caps since they arent included in the kit comes out to:
(Balls, wads, wrench, measure) $64.17 for good quality accessories and balls.

 

[BCRider]

I use a push stick I made up to seat my caps so I'm sure that they are in contact with the ends of the nipples. For the cowboy competition I normally use my C&B revolvers in I don't want to risk the time needed to spin the cylinder and find the cap again.

For casual shooting it's not a big deal if the first hit doesn't set off the cap. Just go to half cock and run the cylinder around and hit it a second time to go BOOM!

I too was worried about how much pressure I could use. So I crushed a couple of caps with my big bench vise. They didn't go off. It really is the sharp strike that is needed and not simply pressure.

I was going to suggest that half the stuff in that kit would be no good for which ever gun you have. But you already got that same message.

Instead of using Crisco shortening as an over ball grease you might consider using a drop of cooking oil on each ball after seating. Canola oil is great for keeping the BP fouling soft. In fact after running around and putting a little oil in each crease between ball and chamber wall and watching it run around from surface tension I put a last drop of oil at the point where the front face of the cylinder meets the barrel at the arbor or base pin. This soaks in and keeps the cylinder turning freely for as long as I keep shooting.

Don't use it for long term storage though. It oxidizes over time and turns to a tough hard film. Stick to Ballistol or some other oil which is known to be compatible with black powder for lubrication and protection between shooting sessions.

You don't NEED one but a stand that holds the gun muzzle up during reloading is sure a handy thing to make. OODLES of pictures on the web to use for ideas. Pick one that uses materials and techniques you are comfortable with.

 

[Mike OTDP]

Most of the advice above is good. I'll add that you need a good nipple wrench, because you should be removing and cleaning them every time you clean the gun.

WRT powder flasks, I prefer the tubular kind with a screw-off end. Much easier to fill that way.

 

[Oohrah!]

If you use Crisco ( or bore butter) you do not need the wad. The whole purpose of either is to prevent a chain fire.

 

[rodwha]

The projectile ensures it's well sealed from a chainfire. The lube is for powder fouling.

 

[Noz]

You could not pay me enough to cap revolvers without a good capper. In my book the only good capper is the Ted Cash snail capper. And yes, a Remington can be modified to accept a snail capper. It takes a sum total of less than 5 minutes to do it.
Using a wad and over ball grease is like wearing suspenders and a belt. One or the other is adequate and if your balls fit properly you don't need either.
I wasted my money on a starter kit and so advise others not to.