Nightstand Duty Dilemma

[Hanzo581]

I've had my trusty Springfield XD45 with a Streamlight TLR-1 for years. I've never really had another gun in my collection that I've considered taking that duty over.

However I just ordered a CZ P-09. I am starting to think I'd rather have that by my side, considering its 20 round capacity. But then I go back to, well 14 rounds of .45 is pretty good, so I don't know.

I am wondering the real world ballistic difference between the two calibers given good modern self defense ammunition. Is it better to have more power or more magazine capacity (given potential miss %).

This is a dangerous question as I don't want to turn this into a 9mm vs. .45 thread.

Thanks for any thoughts.

 

[JTQ]

... I don't want to turn this into a 9mm vs. .45 thread.

Too late.

Pick the one you like better. There are folks with ball bats, or a Schnauzer, or an AR, or a shotgun, or a revolver, 1911, etc. Whatever you like is the right answer, until it isn't.

 

[jgh4445]

WOW! 14 or 20 rounds for night stand duty. Doesn't matter what caliber. If you need that many rounds you need to call in close air support or call for arty. You don't have a break in you have an invasion! LOL

 

[Sergei Mosin]

Is there a difference between A rounds of caliber B and X rounds of caliber Y? Yes. Can you build a mathematical model to predict with near-certainty which is going to be more effective in the gunfight that you may have? No. Is there a range of acceptable round counts and calibers which will probably suffice should you ever need them? Yes. Do your candidates fall within that range? I think so; others may not. What counts is what you think.

General advice: find equipment that works for you, train for the gunfight that you may have, and pray you never have it. And don't worry too much about finding a magic bullet or an enchanted sword, because they don't exist.

 

[Hanzo581]

WOW! 14 or 20 rounds for night stand duty. Doesn't matter what caliber. If you need that many rounds you need to call in close air support or call for arty. You don't have a break in you have an invasion! LOL

This is a good point. I mean if you can't take out a couple guys with a two shot Derringer you need to work on your shooting skills.

*looks at Police stats and sees 18% hit rate in gun fights*

 

[Sav .250]

You just bought-ordered one and your asking? Sounds to me like you were a little short on your home work. J s/n.

 

[Baron_Null]

I say choose whichever one you shoot better. Although a 6rd difference in magazine capacity is nothing to sneeze at, I feel that whichever one is more controllable, faster, and more accurate in your hands will be the best option. I don't feel there's enough practical difference in service pistol calibers to justify one choice over the other if modern JHPs are being used, however that opinion is obviously highly contested.

 

[FL-NC]

If you need to reload after 14 rounds of 45 in a HD scenario- meaning SOMEONE hasn't won the fight at that point, and its still going on- WOW.

 

[Predator55]

If 14 rounds aren't enough to get the job done then you may want to reevaluate your shooting skills. Maybe a handgun shouldn't be your weapon of choice, maybe a ar with a 40 or 90 rd drum? In all seriousness, you have kept your 45 next to your bed and obviously you have confidence in it, so rest assure that if you need it you'll know what to do with it from the training you've done.

 

[Gordon]

well my go to battle gun is a custom P-14 with +2 mags , but in the speed safe next to the bed it is a CZP-01 with TRL2 . Being I am in Ca. I actually keep 10 round mags in it and the belt setup under the mattress. If I HAVE to use the thing I don't want bottom feeder lawyers and PC DA s saying I used an ill legal weapon , those 127 grain Winschester +p Rangers should do the job if I do mine

 

[Baron_Null]

If you need to reload after 14 rounds of 45 in a HD scenario- meaning SOMEONE hasn't won the fight at that point, and its still going on- WOW.

Should that eventuality play out, I'm sure you'll just have to notify your opponent that the internet told you that it wouldn't happen and out of respect they'll end the fight in order to maintain the integrity of common wisdom.

 

[LUCKYDAWG13]

myself i would stick with the 45 and keep in extra magazine with it if that would help you sleep

 

[Hanzo581]

I am loving the "if you need more than X rounds in a gunfight" comments. It is amazing how many people assume they will shoot the same under extreme duress as they do at the range on a lazy Sunday. That's a deadly mistake.

 

[bubba in ca]

within the limits of a bedroom you won't have time to shoot all that lead!
All the major SD rounds have about the same stopping power, with .357 a tad more. Shot placement is the critical factor, and with handguns you need to think of multiple hits.
Use whichever gun you feel most comfortable. There is no magic bullet.

 

[JTQ]

Hanzo581 wrote,
I am loving the "if you need more than X rounds in a gunfight" comments. It is amazing how many people assume they will shoot the same under extreme duress as they do at the range on a lazy Sunday. That's a deadly mistake.

Since you're the OP, it seems like you may have already determined the minimum number of rounds you'll think you need in your hypothetical home defense scenario, and it is possibly a number greater than 14, but less than 20.

 

[fastbolt]

Well, I don't have a "designated HD handgun".

In past years I've typically left whatever duty weapon I was carrying remain out overnight (my children are grown and moved out).

On my days off, if I was carrying something different from among my personally-owned collection, I typically left out whatever it was I'd been carrying that day. That could mean a double or single stack 9, .40 or .45 ... or a 6-shot revolver or one of my 5-shot snubs.

Nowadays, my usual retirement CCW can change depending on my day's/night's activities, meaning where I'm involved in them, or traveling, or my manner of dress, etc.

Last night the retirement CCW that was left out of the safe overnight ... was one of my LCP's.

I can understand how some gun owners and shooting enthusiasts can easily become fixated and distracted by make/model, caliber, capacity, brand of ammunition, etc.

Personally, after having had a badge for more than 30 years (34 years this month, as I still serve as a reserve in my retirement), and after having served as a LE firearms trainer for 26 years, I'm no longer quite so fixated or concerned about the nuances of caliber, capacity, make/model, etc.

While I do tend to prefer night sights on many of my handguns (including my pair of M&P 340 snub's), I'd be fine with once again using a 6-shot service-size revolver in an 'overnight' role, as I commonly did when I carried a service revolver (and any number of my personally-owned revolvers off-duty).

Suit yourself, though. Just give some careful thought to your skillset with whatever equipment (handgun) you choose, and your ability to make very accurate hits on your intended threat target, and not sending any missed rounds through walls to hit family or neighbors.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

My "night stand" gun is a full size 9mm with 20+1.

I know personal friends, and some have even posted on here, that keep an AR with 30rd mags close by at night.


I guess we are the "over kill" crowd....

 

[Chuck R.]

Are you the only one that will (or may) use the pistol in the HD Role?

For years I kept a .45 for HD, 1st a 1911, then a SIG220. I finally changed a few years ago due to the realization that there's a good chance due to my work schedule that my wife might well be the one that ends up having to use it.

So I came off the .45ACP (and 12GA) and wen't to a 9mm (and 5.56) that she could (and would) shoot well. She disliked the .45ACP, but she will practice with 9mm. So I traded 8+1 for 17+1.

Chuck

 

[Panzerschwein]

Give me the 9.

Just as good in gel as .45. But more shots= more likelihood of hitting something vital.

 

[71velle]

A 45 would be a little rougher on the ears if fired indoors.

 

[CapnMac]

WOW! 14 or 20 rounds for night stand duty. Doesn't matter what caliber. If you need that many rounds you need to call in close air support or call for arty. You don't have a break in you have an invasion!

What the actuarial data suggests is that housebreak crew is 4 to 5. (Recall that it takes two people to tote the average tv anymore.)

Now, that being said, the same actuarial meta analysis shows that usually, the initial break is by just the one, who finishes the "case" and checks for anyone home. If someone is home, they beat feet as homeowners seldom wait for the PD.

If no one is home, the lead scans the house to ID where the best "stuff" is, then calls the rest of the crew. The master bedroom is then thoroughly tossed with the valuables then brought to the garage or living room

So, it is possible to come home and be facing 4-5 loading up your stuff into a truck (or maybe your other ride) in the garage.

However, those are idealized samples across a wide statistical spectrum. So, there is some validity to being subject to a whole-crew house invasion. It's a bit more remote a chance, nationally, but not impossible. Varies by location, and a bunch more variables--which is why actuaries make the big bucks.

 

[Hanzo581]

I make sure to take the wife to the range to ensure she can operate and fire competently anything that is left out/loaded. She has no problems firing my XD45.

Since you're the OP, it seems like you may have already determined the minimum number of rounds you'll think you need in your hypothetical home defense scenario, and it is possibly a number greater than 14, but less than 20.

That's the thing, no one knows what they'll face, one guy, two...ten? I am trying to strike a balance between being prepared for a reasonable threat and woeful ignorance of accuracy under duress. Just because I can shoot one ragged hole at 10yrds at the range doesn't mean I can do it in the dark at 3am with someone potentially shooting back.

 

[JTQ]

A 45 would be a little rougher on the ears if fired indoors.

A slow moving, low pressure round like .45 ACP would most likely be an advantage indoors rather than a faster, more muzzle flash prone round like the 9mm.

I don't know actual source of the information, but the .45ACP produces 157 db, while the 9mm produces 160 db.

http://www.m1911.org/loudness.htm

 

[JTQ]

Hanzo581 wrote,
That's the thing, no one knows ...

A comment the late Stephen A. Camp would often make in the 9mm vz .45ACP debate, and he was "Mr. Browning Hi-Power" and a 1911 devotee, was that "you're more likely to run out of time before you run out of ammo", so pick the gun (within reason, a .22 derringer may not be a good choice) you shoot the best.

 

[FL-NC]

I've been in a close-quarters gunfight or 2, but they were all in the course of military operations. Its just hard for me to visualize and expenditure of 14 rounds of ANYTHING, resulting in the pistol being fired to slide lock, within the static confines of a home- and the fight is still going on. It seems to me that by that time, one side would have won, and the other would have lost, assuming that one side didn't run (which would make the fight over, but not necessarily the shooting- lol).