No ammo shortage in the Army

[danprkr]

In Vietnam we were not allowed to engage the enemy or return fire without prior approval and in many cases the delay resulted in many of our troops being killed.

Heck, read Blackhawk Down. They had some pretty stupid restrictions on when they could shoot back then. I gotta believe with the administration we have now it's only going to get worse unfortunately. In my opinion if someone even looks like he's going to shoot while in sight of one of our soldiers our guys should be allowed to rain hell down on them in whatever form most efficient for removing the threat.

As to some weapons being restricted. That's horse pucky too. If it's in the arsenal use it to make bad guys stop doing bad thing!

Sad part is that I believe what I just wrote emotionally, but I realize intellectually that it may not be the totally correct thing to do. We have to temper our responses in a civilian/noncombatant area to keep from making prevoiusly neutral or even allies into bad guys. I can see a situation where, "Ahmed, why are you hear? You've never supported jihad before?"

"There was my brother taking our sons to ___________, his car backfired, and some infidel American blew him away with a mortar strike. DEATH TO INFIDELS!"

OOOPS! So some tempering has to be done, and some judgment has to be used, but it should be at the battlefield level. But, once the judgment has been made that a target has to be destroyed. GET IT DONE in the most efficient safe for our guys possible.

 

[Nicodemus38]

the ammunition alotment for actual combat is not the same as it is for basic training. in summer 2008 in Fort Benning the standard allotment was 5 rounds of blank cartridges to familiarize troops with their m16s recoil. 5 rounds to sight the weapon in at 100 yards. a single 30 round magazine for the rifle qualification on the popup targets. 5 rounds to get used to full auto fire on the m4 carbine. i cant remember the ammount of ammunition allowed with the belt fed weapons. dont remember it being much. handgrenades were all dummys, only one LIVE grenade per platoon, and that was tossed by the drill sergeant. one LIVE claymore was used in the ied/landmine course.
and our companies FTX scenario was "extraction of a friendly village elder and his family through covert work involving the use of avoiding combat."

40 percent of the gas masks in the training company were on the list to be replaced outright for at least a year before we got to use them.

 

[tkendrick]

Quote:
In Vietnam we were not allowed to engage the enemy or return fire without prior approval and in many cases the delay resulted in many of our troops being killed.

That's the craziest thing I've ever heard. Actually that's tops most crazy things. You need an order to return fire? How's that work?
Your buddy just gets shot next to you and you then have to ask whether you can defend yourself or give him cover fire?

It was common practice toward the end of the war. I saw more than one soldier draw punishments from Extra-duty article 15's to general courts over firing without authorization. Watched from an OP one afternoon while charlie sat up several mortars in a field below us, couldn't get authorization for any fires, and that night several civilians and a couple GI's in a nearby town were killed.

From what I hear from my son and some of his buddies coming back from Afghanistan, they are starting to run into the same problem over there, now. My son has 11 years in, he's an E-7 11b. I told him it's time to bail. He has a degree in computer gaming and networking, he sure as hell doesn't need to be fighting a war that this country has no intention of winning.

 

[Tim the student]

a single 30 round magazine for the rifle qualification on the popup targets. 5 rounds to get used to full auto fire on the m4 carbine.

When did the qualification change? I just got out of the Army about a year and a half ago, and it was 40 rounds then.

Never seen an M4 that was full auto either, except for long-tabbers'. Cool you guys got to play with one though.

 

[BacSi67]

I've got to back CHUCKUSARET on his no fire zone comment. Was there with the 9th ID in 1967 and we went through the same crap.
BacSi

 

[BADSBSNF81]

Yes, the military accounts for everything it fires. Someone puts in the requisition, someone picks it up and signs for it and when the residue is turned in it is weighed. There are some variences allowed in weight since there is always some loss.

 

[mljdeckard]

Wish MY unit emphasized combat training. The trigger time I've gotten lately was when I was assisting combat units on the ranges and they let me shoot.

It's never a question of IF there is ammo. It's a question of if YOUR UNIT thinks it's important enough to budget for it.

 

[AZAviator]

I dont know alot about the Vietnam war and I might be wrong but didnt alot of the "calling for authorization before firing" stem from the high number of friendly fire? Doesnt make it right tho even if true.

 

[happygeek]

Wish MY unit emphasized combat training. The trigger time I've gotten lately was when I was assisting combat units on the ranges and they let me shoot.

It's never a question of IF there is ammo. It's a question of if YOUR UNIT thinks it's important enough to budget for it.

And a matter of the unit's training budget. Combat Arms units and units headed into a war zone would seem to get a LOT more ammo to train with than stategic support units.

One of the guy's I know who was stationed in Korea told me stories about his time there. Apparrantly they shoot less there than a lot of civilian gun owners do stateside.

 

[chuckusaret]

I dont know alot about the Vietnam war and I might be wrong but didnt alot of the "calling for authorization before firing" stem from the high number of friendly fire? Doesnt make it right tho even if true.

I was stationed near the DMZ and their was no friendly fire concerns north of my location, only a very well armed, well trained NVA not a ragged VC platoon that we made daily/nightly contact with.