Im tired of hearing people say that a large caliber gun is overkill for whitetail dear. If i shot a deer with a 338 mag with a full metal jacket, and shot another deer with a 243 win ballistic tip, which one is gonna do more damage? I feel like that its all about the bullet. Any arguments?
No such thing as overkill!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter ggshooter
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joelblevins
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- Jul 18, 2010
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well I did see a guy shoot a deer some sort of weatherby(not sure of the caliber) one time and it nearly blew the deer in half so I think thats a little much but 338 mag nah your just taking the fun out of tracking it 
jimmyraythomason
Member
Yes! Overkill in the sense that is is much more power than is needed. Whitetail deeer are not armor plated and are not hard to kill. hit it in the vitals and any centerfire round is sufficient to take them. Why use a cannon that costs much more to shoot and punishes the shooter to take game just as easily killed with a light kicking joy to shoot? Shoot what you want it's your decision to make but I have shot my last rabbit with a .44 magnum!
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Shadow 7D
Member
Really it's much like cars
they all get you there
Just some people like flashy cars, some like expensive cars, and some don't really car so long as they get there.
they all get you there
Just some people like flashy cars, some like expensive cars, and some don't really car so long as they get there.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
MCgunner
Member
You can kill deer with a 155mm Howitzer, but it's not my ideal deer caliber. For deer, whitetail and mule, there's really no need for belted magnums. Oh, I've used 'em, but I've scaled back to a .308, myself. You guys can keep your .416s.
For deer, whitetail and mule, there's really no need for belted magnums. Oh, I've used 'em, but I've scaled back to a .308, myself. You guys can keep your .416s.
CoRoMo
Member
My shoulder believes in overkill.
matrem
Member
I agree with you ggshooter.
Anything smaller than an 8 ga or ."51" BMG should cleanly fill the freezer, and if common sense is used in projectile selection, I'd bet there would be less meat damage than...say.. a .243 with a varmint bullet.
I've not killed any game with anything larger than a 12 ga or 7 mag, so I can't speak from actual experience.
Anything smaller than an 8 ga or ."51" BMG should cleanly fill the freezer, and if common sense is used in projectile selection, I'd bet there would be less meat damage than...say.. a .243 with a varmint bullet.
I've not killed any game with anything larger than a 12 ga or 7 mag, so I can't speak from actual experience.
MCgunner
Member
sonier
Member
My removed family in georgia use to poach deer with .22LR and it killed the snot out of whitetails and some of these were broadside shots, personally i think the best caliber for a white tail is probally a 243. a 338 win mag with nosler Ballistic tipped hot load is going to tear that deers shoulder off, so yes theres such thing as overkill
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
"No such thing as overkill!!!!!!!!"
Very true. But there is such a thing as using more gun than is needed for certain hunting circumstances.
And I'll repeat, for the umpteenth time: If ya don't shoot 'em in the eatin' part, ya don't ruin meat!
Very true. But there is such a thing as using more gun than is needed for certain hunting circumstances.
And I'll repeat, for the umpteenth time: If ya don't shoot 'em in the eatin' part, ya don't ruin meat!
Old Ranger
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I don't know about .22 broadsides, but many a white tail fell in West Virginia to a .22 mag in the ear. A .50 cal Black Powder isn't abnormal - - - everyone does that. My .340 Weatherby was bought for Elk - - - even though my brother-in-law has always used a .308.
I have dropped deer with a Sierra 125 gr hollowpoint going real, real slow out of a .30-30. I remember one that stumbled a few steps and stood by a tree and bled out - - - the bullet must have fragmented a rib or just blew apart inside; there was a sternum hole about 3 inches wide and a big pool of blood on the ground. A .357 mag blows a golf ball sized hole in a deer's neck -- at least a couple of times. A Ruger Vaquero in .44 mag was one stop shopping. White Tails ARE easy kills if the shot is correctly placed. I don't use anything now but a .30-30 and Speer 170 gr soft points. A .243 don't tear up much meat either. The mine's bigger than yours thing gets pretty silly, don't you think?
I have dropped deer with a Sierra 125 gr hollowpoint going real, real slow out of a .30-30. I remember one that stumbled a few steps and stood by a tree and bled out - - - the bullet must have fragmented a rib or just blew apart inside; there was a sternum hole about 3 inches wide and a big pool of blood on the ground. A .357 mag blows a golf ball sized hole in a deer's neck -- at least a couple of times. A Ruger Vaquero in .44 mag was one stop shopping. White Tails ARE easy kills if the shot is correctly placed. I don't use anything now but a .30-30 and Speer 170 gr soft points. A .243 don't tear up much meat either. The mine's bigger than yours thing gets pretty silly, don't you think?
jimmyraythomason
Member
This is very true however that only leaves the head and paunch. Even a heart/lung shot must be perfectly broadside to not have offside damage.
Arkel23
Member
Better to be over pre-pared than under-prepared.
I must be doing something wrong.
Factory ammo as a example not the cheap crap but good ammo. .243 win Hornady custom 95gr SST $29.98 a box at dicks sporting goods. .270 win Hornady custom 130 gr SST $32.99 at dicks. .300 win mag 180 IB $36.98 a box at Dicks. So across the spectrum it goes from $1.50 a round to $1.84 a shot man that is way diffrent $0.34 could really break a guy.
I have taken several deer with a .300 win mag shooting 180 grain InterBonds or Accubonds. Neck shot inside 100 yards entrance hole of pinky size and exit hole about the size of my thumb. No decapatation what gives the just fall over no bloody mess no chunks found 1/2 miles away nothing. Thought this thing was supposed to be overkill and all it does is kill. Man that is such a let down.
I have fired hundreds of rounds if not pushing a thousand rounds of .270, .338 win mag, .300 win mag, 7mm STW, .300 Wtby and I have not even had shoulder surgery not even rotater cuff problems. Yep I am through with larger cartridges all the things i have been promised have been untrue.
Factory ammo as a example not the cheap crap but good ammo. .243 win Hornady custom 95gr SST $29.98 a box at dicks sporting goods. .270 win Hornady custom 130 gr SST $32.99 at dicks. .300 win mag 180 IB $36.98 a box at Dicks. So across the spectrum it goes from $1.50 a round to $1.84 a shot man that is way diffrent $0.34 could really break a guy.
I have taken several deer with a .300 win mag shooting 180 grain InterBonds or Accubonds. Neck shot inside 100 yards entrance hole of pinky size and exit hole about the size of my thumb. No decapatation what gives the just fall over no bloody mess no chunks found 1/2 miles away nothing. Thought this thing was supposed to be overkill and all it does is kill. Man that is such a let down.
I have fired hundreds of rounds if not pushing a thousand rounds of .270, .338 win mag, .300 win mag, 7mm STW, .300 Wtby and I have not even had shoulder surgery not even rotater cuff problems. Yep I am through with larger cartridges all the things i have been promised have been untrue.
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I shot a deer with a .223 55 grain soft point from an AR-15 at 50 yards quartering me. That deer was bloods shot from all get out. Lost both shoulders, and half the back straps.
Shot two deer this year with a .25-06 115 grain BT @ 300 yards. Fist size holes going in. The bullets exited. Bloodshot meat was minimum.
Shoot deer with a 30-30 125 grain Sierra FNHP moving at 2150 fps at 60 yards (just one for example) straight on in the chest @ a slight angle. Bullet exited behind the ribs. Not much blood shot meat, but there was a half dollar size hole going in, and a fist size hole coming out. I never see a deer bleed so much as with the 30-30 125 grain HP loading.
My favorite deer caliber? Whatever gun I have at the time that I can shoot them in the neck, chest, broadside or high shoulder. My preferred caliber though? .25-06 hands down without a doubt the most lights out caliber I have witnessed with deer, as well as pigs, coyotes and crows. There is something about the .25-06. The math just adds up. I shoot 115 grain Combined Technologies Ballistic Tips. They get delivered with an immediate shut off notice to the whitetail. LIGHTS OUT!
Shot two deer this year with a .25-06 115 grain BT @ 300 yards. Fist size holes going in. The bullets exited. Bloodshot meat was minimum.
Shoot deer with a 30-30 125 grain Sierra FNHP moving at 2150 fps at 60 yards (just one for example) straight on in the chest @ a slight angle. Bullet exited behind the ribs. Not much blood shot meat, but there was a half dollar size hole going in, and a fist size hole coming out. I never see a deer bleed so much as with the 30-30 125 grain HP loading.
My favorite deer caliber? Whatever gun I have at the time that I can shoot them in the neck, chest, broadside or high shoulder. My preferred caliber though? .25-06 hands down without a doubt the most lights out caliber I have witnessed with deer, as well as pigs, coyotes and crows. There is something about the .25-06. The math just adds up. I shoot 115 grain Combined Technologies Ballistic Tips. They get delivered with an immediate shut off notice to the whitetail. LIGHTS OUT!
Some of the most devastating wound channels I have ever seen came from a .270 win. Before I got into reloading I was getting great groups with the Winchester Ballistic Silvertips. Man some of the wounds were borderline gross. Now I use the SST, InterBonds or Accubonds with great success not to much tissue damage the SST is the worst of them all but all perform well. I just keep waiting to see my overkill cartridges pick up a deer fling it twelve city blocks mid-air while tearing my shoulder off. I mean that is what they are supposed to due right.
my load for 270, 58 gr of RE-22 and 130 gr SGK SPBT, I had buck 80 - 100 yards away, so he got entry in the right chest just above the heart exited on the left side with a quarter size hole, no meat wasted, well before bullet exited it did scratch its liver
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I hear it all the time. “Man if you shoot a elk with .375H&H it’ll blow him in two”. There is a huge misconception about meat damage and large or medium caliber round on softer critters like elk and deer. A hypersonic eargaslittinloudenboomer in a small caliber with a fragmenting bullet does WAY more meat damage than a larger caliber rifle with a decent bullet. Heck even my .300WM with TSX bullets has pretty minimal meat damage compared to some of the carcasses I’ve opened that’ve been shot with a .270, .25-06 or a .243 or some others in the blazing fast category using ballistic tips or some such micro hand grenade. Now take those same rounds and use a controlled expansion tough bullet and you will eliminate much of your meat damage issues.
I’ve killed over a dozen elk with this load with this .375 and the results are boringly reliable. Entrance and exit hole, very little meat damage, massive, yet short, blood trail or dropped on the spot and always a dead elk.
Here is the partially skinned carcass of an elk cow I shot back in 2005 she was at about 80 yards running. The load was either a TSX or a good old Barnes X I don’t remember and that was about the time I switched from X to TSX. Anyway it is a 270 gr bullet @ a mean MV of about 2750 FPS. I hit her a bit further back than I like due to her running and me shooting off hand but got both lungs. She went about 50 yards and piled up.
As you can see form the photos the meat damage is very minimal and this is about what you expect from this load on elk.
ENTRANCE WOUND 270 gr .375H&H @ 2750FPS MV
EXIT WOUND ON THE SAME ANIMAL
PS
Exchange everything I’ve said about the .375H&H with .338WM and the results are identical. They are virtually the same round when it comes to real life results on critters in the field.
I’ve killed over a dozen elk with this load with this .375 and the results are boringly reliable. Entrance and exit hole, very little meat damage, massive, yet short, blood trail or dropped on the spot and always a dead elk.
Here is the partially skinned carcass of an elk cow I shot back in 2005 she was at about 80 yards running. The load was either a TSX or a good old Barnes X I don’t remember and that was about the time I switched from X to TSX. Anyway it is a 270 gr bullet @ a mean MV of about 2750 FPS. I hit her a bit further back than I like due to her running and me shooting off hand but got both lungs. She went about 50 yards and piled up.
As you can see form the photos the meat damage is very minimal and this is about what you expect from this load on elk.
ENTRANCE WOUND 270 gr .375H&H @ 2750FPS MV
EXIT WOUND ON THE SAME ANIMAL
PS
Exchange everything I’ve said about the .375H&H with .338WM and the results are identical. They are virtually the same round when it comes to real life results on critters in the field.
usmc1371
Member
I normaly shoot 300wm for everything but last year I had a new gun, cz 375 HnH so I took it deer hunting. Shot a small mule deer buck in the head at less than 20 yards, total destruction and not an ounce of wasted meat. Shot a doe in the neck two weeks later at just over 300 yards and she went down so fast I didn't see her hit the ground. Shooting factory fed 260 grain acubonds, no tracking needed... now if I could just have found both of the horns on that little buck.
IMHO if you don't shoot the part you want to eat you don't waste any meat, if you do then your dog will love you and you end up with one less package of burger.
IMHO if you don't shoot the part you want to eat you don't waste any meat, if you do then your dog will love you and you end up with one less package of burger.
HappyHunting
Member
My dad shoots whitetail with a 7 mag. He always has. His father always did. When he got the computer game "Cabela's Big Game Hunter" and the game said that a 7 mag was overkill for whitetail... being 11 or so at the time I think he said something to the effect of "that's bulls***". Simple soft-nose bullets. Entrance-exit, clean kill through the heart, lungs, shoulders etc.
He always had a problem with headshots, even with movie headshots. If every trained shooter is trained to shoot COM, why should a hunter not? He always said it was a low percentage shot, and I tend to agree.
Where did this "sporty" attitude come from when you hit a deer in the heart/shoulder/lungs instead of braining/spining the deer? I always wondered this question. I spined my first deer at 200 yards with a .257 roberts and it was an instant stop for the deer. Why is "spining" considered a more sporty shot than "braining"? I've always thought about all these standards when growing up hunting.
He always had a problem with headshots, even with movie headshots. If every trained shooter is trained to shoot COM, why should a hunter not? He always said it was a low percentage shot, and I tend to agree.
Where did this "sporty" attitude come from when you hit a deer in the heart/shoulder/lungs instead of braining/spining the deer? I always wondered this question. I spined my first deer at 200 yards with a .257 roberts and it was an instant stop for the deer. Why is "spining" considered a more sporty shot than "braining"? I've always thought about all these standards when growing up hunting.
caribou
Member
I use an M-39 with Czeck light ball FMJ's on Moose to Mice ~~LOL!!~~ Or as the pictures show, Brown Bear, Muskox, Redfox, Caribou, Rabbits, Ptarmigan.....even a few Fish, ~~LOL!!~~and so much more, just popin' heads
Any shot that kills but doaent ruin meat is a good shot, and most of these shots were head/neck, even the wifes Brown Bear.
Damn it, it's all about "Placement"........nobody listens........
Any shot that kills but doaent ruin meat is a good shot, and most of these shots were head/neck, even the wifes Brown Bear.
Damn it, it's all about "Placement"........nobody listens........
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