No win scenario at restaurant

Status
Not open for further replies.
P

Plan2Live

Member
Joined
May 17, 2011
Messages
2,183
Location
Columbia, SC
The other evening I had had a particularly bad day and didn't feel like cooking. I decided to go to a restaurant instead. In South Carolina we are not allowed to carry inside restaurants that serve alcohol. Being the good civilian I left my pistol in my vehicle as my son and I went inside.

We were almost finished when an entire family in a booth near us jumped up and headed for the door. The waiter seeing this inquired if something was wrong. The mom exclaimed "yeah, my son just called form the parking lot and our car is being broken into right now!" My son and I along with every table within earshot jumped up and ran to the parking lot. Dont misinterpret this action, we all ran to OUR cars, not theirs.

So there it is, the no win scenario. As a law abiding permit holder I am fobidden from carrying inside restaurants that serve alcohol. If I obey the law then I risk losing my gun to a theif and have to transition from vehicle to restaurant unprotected.

Yes, I could choose to eat only at restaurants that do not serve alcohol but those are not generally my preference.
Besides, why should I have to limit my choices?

Yes, I could choose to leave my weapon at home instead but on this very night, within one mile from my home, three armed men carjacked someone. So no, leaving it at home isn't the best option either.

I guess there isn't much for the group to discuss here as there isn't an answer, unless there are other South Carolina CWP holders reading this that think it's time we demanded our law makers change this stupid provision. If you are out there and are fed up like me, PM me.
 
Yep no real answer but the obvious. Just curious, why did everyone run out to their cars instead of call the police and stay put? Doesn't seem like a good tactic.
 
The majority of the folks running for the parking lot, except me, appeared to be driving "work" trucks with the big toolboxes in back. They seemed concerned about their belongings. I was obviously concerned about my weapon.

Along the way I heard the mom telling the dad that the son was saying "they" (I assumed burglars) were running away. As I passed the register I heard someone, not sure who, appear to be talking to the Police. Beyond that, for me, I wasn't too concerned about personal saftey given the large number of potential targets exiting the building. Bad choice? Maybe, but a calculated gamble.
 
Plan2Live, I agree this is pretty much a no-win scenario, but I'd definitely make a point to share that story with your state legislators, especially if there's a relevant bill in SC that would remedy the problem.
 
No relevant bill pending at the moment. I talked to my Representative a few weeks back. He said he would support it if I could get "the Gun Guy" in the Senate to take it up. The Gun Guy, is out of my district and won't return my calls, probably because I'm not a constituent.
 
The option you didn't mention (until you vote in legislators with brains in their heads) is a handgun vault in the car. They are inexpensive and effective against smash & grab type break-ins.
 
Plan2Live said:
...I guess there isn't much for the group to discuss here as there isn't an answer, unless there are other South Carolina CWP holders reading this that think it's time we demanded our law makers change this stupid provision...
Click to expand...
Yes, the real solution here would be legislative. And I don't think it's impossible. I believe a few States have recently amended their laws to allow a person with CWP to carry concealed in a restaurant serving alcohol. I believe most such laws require that the gun carry not consume alcohol. That's the case in Arizona.

Plan2Live said:
Pickup truck, no locking console or glovebox.
Click to expand...
As Mainsail pointed out, there are aftermarket options.
 
It seems logical that the law should only apply if YOU are drinking, then most laws are not based in logic.
 
I usually use a cable lock on the bench seat and the foam from an old pistol case velcro'd to the floor.
 
Plan2Live said:
I guess there isn't much for the group to discuss here as there isn't an answer, unless there are other South Carolina CWP holders reading this that think it's time we demanded our law makers change this stupid provision. If you are out there and are fed up like me, PM me.
Click to expand...

There is a reason they call it "concealed" carry. I really think your chances of being "outed" in a restaurant, in such a manner as it would get you arrested, are fairly minimal to non-existent.

Not that I would encourage =anyone= to break the law ... but laws that demand that I submit to criminals deserve to be ignored.
 
You'll be surprised to learn that despite New York state's onerous gun laws, CCW license allows you to eat in any restaurant while carrying. You can even have a drink.
 
not much can do about already happened. I would suggest as other have, some type of portable cabled lockup system. Also when not legal to carry a firearm into an eatery is it illegal to carry parts? Ammo? If an automatic I would disassemble the gun and carry it inside in component form. Perhaps contacting your AG's office would help but I don't know of any law that would stop you from carrying a empty clip, or plain 4" barell, or a slide, or a receiver. Wouldn't do you much good in a defense problem but not good in the vehicle either and no one will steal it that way

Just an idea but again check with legal!
 
Here in Florida we can carry inside a restaurant that serves alcohol. We just can not sit at the bar or go near it. So we can sit at a table and drink.
I have a CWP and I hope I don't ever get into a scenario where I have to pull my pistol. I have talk to many people who pull a pistol in a restaurant if someone pulled a knife or other weapon. That scares me. Unless I was 100% sure that in no way an innocent person would be harmed at all. But even then a bullet can go astray and hurt or kill someone. To play hero is not a good thing. Like I have told people, once the bullet leaves the barrel, there is no taking it back. It's not a movie. In my opinion, carrying a hand gun (and I do) is a big responsibility. And the picture you paint for the police when they arrive, will determine weather you go to jail or not.
 
frankg2240
"...If I obey the law then I risk losing my gun to a theif and have to transition from vehicle to restaurant unprotected...."

I believe that it is better to loose your gun to a thief; than to loose your CCW privileges, possibly have a felony conviction and have to give up all of your other guns and have the legal bills that would go with it. Guns can be replaced! That is why we carry insurance.

Also you may want to consider that being unprotected does not end when you enter the restaurant. Think of going to a local popular chain cafeteria for lunch. Should be safe? Lubbys Cafeteria, Killeen, TX, Wednesday, 12:45 PM, 10/16/1991, 24 dead, 20 wounded, single shooter.

Having said the above, we all have occasions when we need to leave our EDC's in our vehicles, either by choice or for legal reasons. I do not elect to leave mine in either my glove compartment or center console. Too easy to pop the glove box and my center console doesn't even have a lock.

"...Pickup truck, no locking console or glovebox...."

I do use a portable gun vault cabled to the driver front seat frame and stored under the seat. 2 minutes to install and most of that deciding which part of the seat frame was easiest to loop the cable around. http://www.opticsplanet.net/lockdown-large-handgun-vault.html Only $20.00 for peace of mind. Easy to pull out to unlock, open/close, re-lock and slide back under the seat. I suspect that bolt cutters would be required to defeat the locking cable. Not something usually carried by your average car thief, who is looking for a quick smash and grab.

I wish you the best in getting your law changed.

GH
 
FrankG2240 writes:

I have talk to many people who pull a pistol in a restaurant if someone pulled a knife or other weapon. That scares me.
Click to expand...

What scares you? That someone pulled a knife or other weapon, or that the person being threatened responded by drawing a firearm? Drawing a firearm in response to a knife threat is certainly an appropriate response when the ability of the knife-wielder to inflict immediate and potentially-deadly injury is clearly present. Guns aren't just for guns; they are for any serious threat of death or serious bodily injury. If I am reading your post correctly, you sound as if you are unsure of deadly-force response. It's not just your opinion that carrying a handgun is a big responsibility; it's everyone's. However, you need to be sure that, if you should be drawing it, you actually do so, and if you do indeed draw it, you are prepared to fire it.
If you are serious about carrying and being properly prepared and legally sound, I urge you to get some training beyond what was required to get your license. There is a lot more to training than paper targets, or even shooting. Learn situational-awareness tactics, defusion methods, fire-control (the ability to self-regulate your shooting, instead of instinctively shooting either only once, or to slide-lock), movement-shooting, retreat, and (of course), legal issues including legal defense options.
 
@ jimpage

JimPage
Member


Join Date: July 28, 2011
Location: Rome, NY
Posts: 18
You'll be surprised to learn that despite New York state's onerous gun laws, CCW license allows you to eat in any restaurant while carrying. You can even have a drink.

In Niagara County the pistol permit clerk will give you a list of rules and reg's that you can lose your CCW over.

Carrying in ANYPLACE that serves alcoholic beverages is a NO NO,regardless if your actually drinking or not.

Check with your local judges as they tend to make their own rules as they change office.
 
One way around this sort of restriction is to cary a heavy "walking cane" in your vehicle. It is legal to carry everywhere, even on airplanes because it is protected by the 'Americans with Disabilities Act'. A stick has a tremendous reach advantage over any knife. There has been a fair amount of discussion about recently this on the Non-firearms Weapons forum. Check it out.
 
Think of going to a local popular chain cafeteria for lunch. Should be safe? Lubbys Cafeteria, Killeen, TX, Wednesday, 12:45 PM, 10/16/1991, 24 dead, 20 wounded, single shooter.
Click to expand...

21 years ago. In all that time, how many folks went to cafeterias all over the country and DIDN'T get shot or killed? You cannot protect yourself from every imaginable possibility - at least not and keep your sanity
 
One other cheap alternative is a set of handcuffs and a revolver: one bracelet goes around the underside of hammer spur and *behind* the trigger in the trigger guard,and the other gets locked to the seat frame somehow. Actually, you might be able to safely put the handcuffs through the guard of a pistol, behind the trigger, depending what model pistol you have... case by case on that.
 
Sidheshooter writes:

One other cheap alternative is a set of handcuffs and a revolver: one bracelet goes around the underside of hammer spur and *behind* the trigger in the trigger guard,and the other gets locked to the seat frame somehow. Actually, you might be able to safely put the handcuffs through the guard of a pistol, behind the trigger, depending what model pistol you have... case by case on that.
Click to expand...

Check your laws first; in Florida, possession of a handcuff key concealed on one's person is a felony, though a charge would be defensible as long as the carrier discloses the presence and location of the key to any arresting or detaining officer immediately upon such arrest or detention.
 
Have you considered this option, OP?

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoo..._l=SBC;cat104792580;cat104730480;cat104195880

Made for almost every single model truck offered by Ford, Chevy, GMC, Toyota, or Dodge - year 2005 or newer; and many (but not all) trucks year 2000 or newer.

The console itself doesn't have to be able to lock. This safe bolts down from the inside, and has it's own lock. The only way to remove it is to open it first.
 
"....................our car is being broken into right now." the places empties?

I`m thinking it`s a good thing nobody was carrying for ovious reasons.
 
Scaatylobo:

The restrictions you refer to are locally imposed by the issuing authority. They are administrative restrictions, not restrictions imposed the the penal code. So you're correct that the judge can revoke you license, for that or any other infraction of his restrictions. Or for any reason he pleases. He has sole discretion unless you go to the expense of filing an Ariticle 75 action. But there is no proscecutable act in being at a bar or restaurant.

Apparently in SC it's a crime.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Gary Slider
  • Locked
SC Restaurant Carry. . .Restaurant Carry Nationwide
Replies
13
Views
1K
Sam1911
S
CDR_Glock
  • Locked
South Carolina Concealed Carry: Restaurants???
Replies
4
Views
390
TYFOOON
T
F
  • Locked
20 Years After Luigi's - NC Gets 'Restaurant Carry'
Replies
3
Views
319
billvau
B
P
  • Locked
Conceal Carry in restaurants that serve alcohol
2 3
Replies
57
Views
3K
FadingSwordsman
F
D
  • Locked
CCW in Georgia, Legal in Restaurants
Replies
8
Views
556
treeprof
T
Back
Top