I agree. But, any time someone mentions hard cast or mono-metal solids, somebody always chimes in about over penetration. It may be true in some calibers, but l don’t see that in .380.
Non expanding bullets
- Thread starter rhtwist
- Start date
I agree. But, any time someone mentions hard cast or mono-metal solids, somebody always chimes in about over penetration. It may be true in some calibers, but l don’t see that in .380.
Good more reading, Recently shooting the plastic mini .380 pistol. The gun using ball ammo was quite easy to shoot, was warned that it would be worse. Forgot how tiny the rounds are, don't like not having a second strike capability on the semi auto.
Plan on doing some reading soon, thanks again
Thank you for the info on 9mm. Saw a new to me carrying system called Phster that if it works as advertised, could make carrying a mini 9mm more comfortable and concealable. Or the lightweight s&w in .38 with a laser. Don't really like to support gun locks though.
Howdy,
Have tried the little plastic .380. It was not uncomfortable for me to shoot. Not nearly as effective as the 9mm or greater but it depends on the envisioned scenario of use. Theoretically I believe cool nerves, proper aim and a .25 acp would stop an attacker, if you let them get close enough..?
Hello and that is the idea that I was getting, of course there is the concern of the proper functioning. But it is with no personal experience.. Maybe the reading that the other members have posted for me will help me choose.
Thanx
Thank you WYO,
That was interesting and you could see the difference. In my scenario of use this small .380 would not require barrier penetration. I was surprised that the FMJ did not penetrate in the test. No problem functioning with the Underwood XD in .380?
That was interesting and you could see the difference. In my scenario of use this small .380 would not require barrier penetration. I was surprised that the FMJ did not penetrate in the test. No problem functioning with the Underwood XD in .380?
the cake: shoot what you can financially afford and physically handle alot, what chambers & cycles reliably, what you can consistently hit with.
the frosting: caliber and bullet type.
the absolute requirements: your lifestyle and locales, your situational awareness.
be aware that bullet type can be an issue in certain states by law and with certain prosecutors by political orientation.
the frosting: caliber and bullet type.
the absolute requirements: your lifestyle and locales, your situational awareness.
be aware that bullet type can be an issue in certain states by law and with certain prosecutors by political orientation.
sgt127
Member
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2003
- Messages
- 2,113
I occasionally carry a Sig P232. When I do, it’s loaded with Buffalo Bore Hardcast .380. Non +P. I want penetration. I want through the humerus. Through the rib cage. Through the lungs and heart, penetration.
I don’t want some sexy little hollow point opening up like a parachute and making a nasty shallow wound. I wanna hit the pelvic girdle and break it.
It’s just a .380. I want it to go Deep enough, at any angle, to hit the important stuff ….on a 350 lb recently released inmate. Who is nothing but bulk and muscle. Who has nothing to do with “properly calibrated ballistic gelatin”.
I don’t want some sexy little hollow point opening up like a parachute and making a nasty shallow wound. I wanna hit the pelvic girdle and break it.
It’s just a .380. I want it to go Deep enough, at any angle, to hit the important stuff ….on a 350 lb recently released inmate. Who is nothing but bulk and muscle. Who has nothing to do with “properly calibrated ballistic gelatin”.
Last edited:
I didn't have any trouble with the standard velocity Underwood cycling in my gun. I did have problems with the Lehigh branded version that I bought as loaded rounds from Wilson Combat. The Lehigh branded version was only starting out with a muzzle velocity of 1075 fps, which is rather low for such a light bullet. It apparently did not generate enough slide velocity to fully cycle the gun every time. The Underwood ammo starts out 200 fps faster and cycles the gun fine. I also tried some XD handloads using load data off Lehigh Defense's (not Wilson Combat's) website, which launched at an average velocity of 1160 fps (much faster than Lehigh's factory ammo, go figure) and it functioned fine.
With respect to the first part of your post, see sgt127's post. It's not just external barriers that we have to worry about. Also, it is never a good idea to predict the exact type of trouble that will find you at any point in time.
I have a .32 ACP pistol, and older CZ-70 and carry Fiocci 7.65 Browning, which is the same as 32 ACP, but a little different and a little hotter. I just load it with FMJ as penetration is needed before expansion as far as I understand and it is easy to shoot quickly and accurately so, I've never made the jump to a small 9mm or 380 ACP, because I've fired them and I'm just not very good with them in a small pistol. FMJ also loads reliably and since I practice with it, I don't see any real reason to spend too much time on what might be better. I kind of think of it like an ice pick round. It is basically just going to stab a .32 inch hole, and well - for me in terms of a self defence concept, stabbing several .32 inch holes in a threat real fast works for me.
Mosin77
Member
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2019
- Messages
- 1,592
It would be great if we got some real world evidence of terminal effect with regard to Underwood/Lehigh. We know the strengths and weaknesses of FMJ, and hollowpoints. The Extreme Defender type ammo promises that it might give hollowpoint type stopping power with FMJ feed reliability and penetration, potentially making for a game changer in the smaller calibers. But until we know how effective they are in the real world as far as I can tell it’s all just theoretical.
Jim Watson
Member
Feral pig elimination?
Trap some and shoot the hundred pounders with ammo of interest.
Thompson & Lagarde shot cattle, too big.
The Pedersen testers shot pigs and goats.
Trap some and shoot the hundred pounders with ammo of interest.
Thompson & Lagarde shot cattle, too big.
The Pedersen testers shot pigs and goats.
In that caliber, I feel that your description seems accurate from what I've gleaned. Certainly not a one stop incapacitater IMHO. The members have got me thinking about penetration but the weight difference of the XD and a fmj might make the difference.
Thanks
Thanks
DustyGmt
Member
I have more faith in a FMJ in a small short barreled pocket gun. .32acp, .380acp or snubbie .38spl don't get hollowpoints in my guns for better feeding and the fact that 700fps gave or take in those cartridges isn't enough to
A: Expand Reliably
B: Penetrate Deep enough
Just my $0.02
A: Expand Reliably
B: Penetrate Deep enough
Just my $0.02
Steven_Seagull
Member
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2022
- Messages
- 70
Anyone ever experiment with "spoon loads" in regards to FMJ?
Reports I hear is that it induces yawing in both rifle and pistol calibers.
Reports I hear is that it induces yawing in both rifle and pistol calibers.
This is a gel test of a fluted bullet vs a near identical bullet with no flutes. It’s in gel so not real world but if the flutes do absolutely nothing, the two will penetrate to the same depth. Of course Paul Harrell has tested fluted bullets in the “meat target” and they don’t over penetrate. And he seems to claim the damage to the target is about like hollow points. Again not real world but they are not zipping right through several targets.
https://m.youtube.com/shorts/JM9C6l7P1Pk
https://m.youtube.com/shorts/JM9C6l7P1Pk
https://m.youtube.com/shorts/JM9C6l7P1Pk
https://m.youtube.com/shorts/JM9C6l7P1Pk
CapnMac
Member
The "flying tool tip" folks promise all manner of things from their ammo.
The primary problem with all these superblastermega ammo is that they are ludicrous expensive. Often 3x or more over other ammo. That expense pretty much obviates against being able to buy enough to get in enough practice time to become either proficient nor comfortable with that ammo.
Those flying hex driver bits might be as spiffy as sliced bread. Might. But, how would a person know at $1.50 or $2 per round? Or even $3? In the face of FMJ at 60-70¢ a round, the choice ought to be easier.
But, my perspective on this was set back in the 90s, when the Glazer Safety Slugs were all the rage. Just poke $12 (for six) of these in your revolver, and the world was your oyster. And too many folk did. Shoot them? Not at $2 per each. Not when FMJ were 20-25¢ each. But, how could you know where these flyweight rounds were likely to hit unless you shot them? But, twelve bucks a cylinder was very much in the way of that.
There's an old adage my grandfather would remind me of--fishing lures are designed to hook fishermen, not fish, and the prices tends to be proportionate. Is that absolute? Nothing in life is absolute. But, it's something to keep in the back of the mind.
