Norinco 1911 Price Check

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Babarsac

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Found a used Norinco 1911 in a local shop. One or two scuff marks but the bore is nice and shiny. It's marked $400 but the owner may talk price. Is it worth it or should I go for a RIA from Sarco?
 
Haggle for a better price and buy it. Its a better gun than the RIA.

I have one I payed $350 for a few years ago and it has been very reliable. Its also a good gun to start with if you want to customize it. The only thing I don't like about my Norinco is the finish they put on it.
 
Yes!

Buy that gun. If you get him to drop the price all the better.

And yes, a much better base gun than the RIA. Let the flaming begin.
 
OK, I lied, I should've checked my sources first. They are sold out, HOWEVER, you can still use it as a barganing tool.
 
$400 is a bit over what I would pay but at $350 or so would be good. See if you can talk him down, if not, check the auction sites. I saw one go for $360 just the other day...

v.
 
Demitrios

It would be against the law to use marstar.ca to purchase a new Norinco and have it imported into the states.
 
It would be nice though. I have taken a RIA for a test drive at a range down in Norfolk and it wasn't horrible to shoot, but the Norinco at the shop didn't feel as loosely put together. Hopefully I'll get down there on Friday.
 
kanook, why not? As long as the feds approve of them what's the big deal? I'm not contesting you but I'd like to know why so that I don't make another big mistake like this down the road. Or high road.
 
thats a good price for a good 1911 and they are.
They have not been for sale new here in the states since like the mid 90's.
If you can get it for a better price great also.
I do not see very many military type firearms from china from that era that are not decent quality. I have one thats like new that I would not part with for that price.
 
hope this helps
Bush Ban on Chinese Imports
Charles R. Smith
Wednesday, May 28, 2003
Chinese Arms Maker Gets Cut


The Bush administration has just imposed a two-year ban on imports from Chinese arms maker NORINCO (China North Industries). According to U.S. defense intelligence sources, President Bush imposed the restrictions personally.

The move is welcomed in national security and human rights circles but viewed with great displeasure in the boardrooms of Wal-Mart and Kmart.

"The China Support Network (CSN) commends the Bush administration in taking this strong measure in imposing stiff economic sanctions on PLA-controlled NORINCO," stated CSN spokesman David Chu.

CSN is an affiliation of human rights and national security experts who advocate a ban on all imports from China.

"CSN sees this as an important first step in checking the global ambitions of Communist China, which is not only hegemony in Asia, but around the world," noted Chu.

NORINCO's role as arms maker for the PLA is well known. NORINCO manufactures ballistic missiles, artillery, machine guns, tanks, lasers, radars, surface-to-air missiles, ammunition and land mines, to name a few.

NORINCO also makes a wide variety of household products sold in retails stores in America. These products include tools, toys, bikes and ceramics.

NORINCO Chinese Army Inc.

The U.S. public knows little about how NORINCO finances its arms production, however. The fundamental principles of Chinese strategy are embodied in two People’s Liberation Army (PLA) terms for national defense. Junzhuanmin is the turning over of military resources to civilians for civilian use, and junmin jieje is the integration of the military and civilian.

Both terms refer to the combination of military and civilian resources such as airports, seaports, roads and communications.

However, Junzhuanmin and junmin jieje also translate into a conversion that is reversible, with each resource having a dual function – military and civilian. This twin-track policy has resulted in increased budgets for the Chinese army, advanced technology for modern weapons and a strengthening of the Chinese military-industrial complex.

According to a Commerce Department document on Chinese military defense industries, the PLA strategy is an economic war against America.

"[Chinese] Civilian resources should be transferable to military industries for weapons production," states the document, titled "Swords Into Market Shares," which was forced from the Clinton administration by a Freedom of Information lawsuit.

"This is not only to prepare for war, but also to use trading firms such as NORINCO (China North Industries Corporation) and China Great Wall Industry Corporation to acquire foreign technologies, such as electronics, for military as well as economic modernization."

Slave Labor Camps

The Bush move to ban all imports from NORINCO will hurt China. NORINCO does an estimated $100 million in business in the West each year, selling everything from small arms to toys.

The low-cost Chinese products are a result of low-cost labor. In the labor market, PLA-owned NORINCO does have an advantage over most U.S. corporations.

"The Communist Chinese are using tens of millions in thousands of Laogai slave concentration camps in Communist China to fuel this trade deficit, just as Nazi Germany did in WW II," stated David Chu of the China Support Network.

"They are using the hard currency from the trade deficits with America to buy the latest military weapons from Russia, such as the Sunburn cruise missile and the Shkval 'rocket' torpedoes – weapons primarily designed to kill U.S. aircraft carriers and submarines."

The Bush move is the first time in a decade that the U.S. has actually imposed such strict sanctions against a Chinese company. NORINCO has had a long history of bad corporate behavior in the West.

NORINCO frequently confronted the Clinton administration in a number of arms scandals, including attempts to sell Chinese-made machine guns to U.S. drug dealers.

Clinton Dummy Commerce Department

While NORINCO was very well known inside the Clinton White House, Clinton's front office for advanced military exports to China, the Commerce Department, claimed to know little about the multibillion-dollar arms giant.

In 1996, Clinton transferred export oversight to the inept and ill-equipped Commerce Department. President Clinton signed the executive order that ended 40 years of legislation designed to prevent war. The transfer also forced the paper trail for military exports to China to now end at the Commerce Department instead of at the Oval Office.

In 1997, after the transfer of authority by Clinton, Commerce Department officials in Beijing clearly stated they did not track Chinese army-owned companies. Thus, the only U.S. government agency with the legal authority to stop exports had no idea what to do.

"One of the largest PLA-affiliated firms is NORINCO," states a 1997 e-mail from Commerce official Robert Bannerman in Beijing.

"Nothing is these databases indicated its affiliation. We do not maintain a formal FCS all-encompassing computer database of Chinese companies. ..."

According to a 1997 Rand Corporation report, NORINCO plays a key role in the global arms market. In fact, the main reason why the Bush administration imposed the severe penalties on NORINCO was for its unrestricted sales of ballistic missile technology to Iran.

John Huang and NORINCO

In contrast, the Clinton administration paid little attention to NORINCO arms sales to the Middle East. However, there was one member of the Clinton team who seemed to be keenly aware of NORINCO sales attempts.

According to documents discovered in the offices of convicted Chinagate figure John Huang, NORINCO wanted to sell artillery to Kuwait. In 1995, Kuwait allocated $1.3 billion to upgrade its field artillery. Included in this new program was an intense competition between U.S.-based United Defense and NORINCO for the contract.

The documents in Huang's files note that there was "heavy pressure from the Chinese Government" on Kuwait "to select NORINCO."

Huang's file on the Kuwaiti howitzer purchase also contains detailed weapon information of great value to the Chinese military.

"China also remains the only member of the UN Security Council that has not been awarded a large military contract from Kuwait. It is understood that the Chinese are pressing this issue with the Kuwait Government," notes the Commerce document from Huang's files.

"The Chinese offer is of particular concern in that its howitzer has been recently modernized and configured to NATO standards for ammunition interoperability," states the document from Huang's office.

Why would John Huang, ex-Lippo banker and DNC fund-raiser, follow NORINCO artillery sales from his Commerce Department office?

John Huang invoked his Fifth Amendment rights over 2,000 times when asked under oath if he was an agent of the Chinese army.

NORINCO Friends

It is a fact that NORINCO sells its weapons to a wide variety of nations. In 1998, U.S. intelligence satellites tracked a Chinese freighter bound for Pakistan that contained a load of NORINCO-made anti-tank missiles.

Information published in the Pakistan Observer on June 23, 1998, noted that China also transferred a large number of depleted uranium tank shells designed for the Pakistani armored forces. NORINCO made the shells with help from the China National Nuclear Corp., which supplied the uranium.

Pakistan has recently upgraded its Type-59s with night vision, stabilized guns and laser range finders, and some have received a heavier 115 mm smooth-bore Chinese gun. NORINCO supplied the new systems.

The Clinton administration even sought to help NORINCO. According to Commerce Department documents, the Clinton administration approved the export of blade cutters and molds for a NORINCO artillery-fuse production facility.

"When will Americans wake up to stop this insane 'blood transfusion' that we are providing to Communist China?" asked CSN's David Chu.

"When will Americans realize that history repeats itself?" warned Chu.
 
and some info here
The Norinco "Model of the 1911A1" was first imported into the US in '90/'91 and the importation was stopped in '95 by an Executive Order issued by Clinton, the order was for all handguns, miliary look-alike rifles and ammunition produced by Norinco (North China Heavy Industries).

At the time of the EO several things had happened both here in the US and in China that were causing Clinton some concerns; the word that the PRC had spent a lot of money on his presidental race (and his pockets too, I'll wager); the chance the PRC/PLA would have exclusive use of the Port of Long Beach; the smuggling in of several sea containers of real, honest to Mao AK-47s that were destined for the various gangs in LA and other American cities through the parts of the port that the PRC already had use of and human rights violation in China. Clinton needed to do something that would make the American public think that he was doing something about the PRC's violations, the Port of Long Beach deal that he favored and to divert questions on the $$ that were received. The EO made anti-gunners happy since the evil military guns were not being imported, it made Clinton's people happy since it made him look as if he was doing something, it made the HR people happy since he was "showing the PRC" that human rights violations would not be tolerated and it did not upset the flow of cash from the US to China and back to 1600 PA. Avenue. The firearms importation was but a very, very small part of the total amount of goods produced by Norinco and exported to the US. Norinco or North China Heavy Industries is the largest manufacturing company in the world, producing everything from shoes thru heavy machinery (and military arms and munitions). Clinton's EO has no expiraion date and will remain in effect until it is recinded by another EO.

Bush issued a 2 year EO banning all Norinco products from importation after China was found to be shipping missiles to Iran/Iraq. When that EO expires everything, but the Clinton banned items, will be allowed in the country again.
 
Illegal for US residents, but the OP is in Nova (Nova Scotia, Canada)?
 
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