Not a good day at the range w/ 9mm reloads..

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k9kev88

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OK, I am fairly new to reloading, but I have been researching the heck out of it, and have been very careful. My first trip to the range 2 weeks ago was focused on measuring the velocity (fps) and making sure there were no signs of high pressure, etc. I rented a professional-grade chrono at the range and all velocity measurements were as expected. So I made 100 more and decided to go back today to see how accurate they were - not good.

Granted, I am shooting these out of a S&W Sigma 9mm (which I am fairly accurate with from 15 yards using factory ammo), but the accuracy results shooting my reloads from a bench rest were all over the place, when compared to my use of Federal (FC) 9mm 115 gr in the same session today.

Here is what I am loading:
- once fired FC brass cases that have been cleaned (from my previous use of the Federal rounds)
- Berry's plated 115 grain RN
- Winchester SP primers
- OAL - 1.11
- Clays powder at 3.2 grains (Hodgdon range is 3.0 - 3.4)
- velocity average was right under 1000 fps, which is as expected
- using Lee 4-die set for 9mm w/ slight factory crimp

Accuracy results at 15 yards, using a bench rest:
- the shots appeared to be 6 inches lower at 15 yards (on average), when compared to shots with FC factory ammo. I had to change my POA to get the bullets on the paper.
- no consistency - shots were off to the left and to the right
- examining the target (dirty bird) indicated that most were clean hits, but I did find a couple where it appears the bullet could have gone in partially sideways.

I am really disappointed - these are not usable loads. I have some HP-38 which is a little hotter and I can try it next, but I was expecting these to perform well at a reasonable velocity for range/training use for my wife and they did not deliver.

Any suggestions or recommendations?
 
Accuracy is a very, very subjective thing. There are so many variables. Is it the shooter, the gun, the bullets, the phase of the Moon?;)

First, did you have anyone else shoot the same gun and loads? This helps narrow down if it is the shooter (not saying it is).

The load: You can not compare it to a Federal factory as they used a different bullet, powder and primer.

The Gun: How accurate is it based on say shot by a competition shooter??

My suggestion, try a premium bullet like XTP and another powder such as Power Pistol, HP 38 where there is load data right from the Hornady Manual or a Speer bullet and their load data.
 
I am not a fan of Clays for that application. Try some W-231, N320, or AA #5, and see what it does.
 
+1

Lose the FCD and taper crimp with the seating die.
With .356" Berry bullets, you want an case mouth measurement of .377" after taper-crimping.

Any more then that you are squishing the plated bullets under-size with excess crimp.

rc
 
Good advice from all, thank you.

I have some HP-38, so I will try that next. I will be going to a gun show this weekend so I will grab some AA#5 if that's available.

I didn't have anyone else shoot these loads through my gun - I was using a bench rest aimed at the center of the target, using my regular POA, and I went back and forth between my reloads and the factory loads.

I do like the idea of testing my Sigma by getting Hornady or Speers bullets and using their data to see how they shoot - sounds like a good experiment to see what I am dealing with.

I realize the Sigma isn't the best in accuracy, but what I saw today was too much of a variation in accuracy from what I have seen with Remington UMC and FC ammo.
 
Clays blows in 9mm! Been there, tried that;)

Power Pistol will get you some better groups, I promiss. 5.5-6.0gr is below start data for fmj, and would be a good place to start.

Now if you get to loading 45acp, Clays will stack bullets for you!
 
seems like I have all kinds of issues!!

Lose the FCD and change powders :) I guess the experimentation is what makes reloading so much fun.
 
The 115 Berry RN over
5.5 Unique
Seated 1.120"
Crimped .376"

Shoots the lights out in my SIG P6, S&W Model 39, and my sons XDc.

rc
 
Question - so I have looked at the Alliant site (Power Pistol) - they only list 3 recipes for 9mm loads, and only reference Speer bullets.

Where can you get more data on using their powders? This was one reason I haven't used any Alliant powders - limited data on their website...
 
Any decent load manual will have more Alliant data then you can shake a stick at.

A quick glance at my Lyman #49 shows Bullseye, Unique, Power Pistol, and Blue Dot loads with 115 Hornady bullets.

Then add Red Dot & Green Dot to that with 120 grain cast bullets.

Somewhere in this forum is an older Alliant Powder Guide PDF floating around with complete data.
But that was before ATK bought Alliant and Speer, and only show Speer bullets now, and not a lot of powders with them.

Also - I checked my crimp and it is .375, so a smidge tight.
The crimp on the FC factory ammo is .376
Click to expand...
Jacketed 9mm bullets are .355".
Berry plated bullets are .356".

So, your .375" crimp is too tight, and squishing them a little.

You might shoot for .377" or just enough crimp to take all the bell out of the case mouth.
The case should just kiss the bullet, but not deform it or cut into the plating.

rc
 
Lees 2nd Edition shows Power Pistol as the #1 powder for 115gr FMJ, just reduce it for plated.
 
excellent!!! It is SAVED on my computer.

You guys are great - now I'm looking forward to making some adjustments and trying again.

Thanks!
 
As walkalong posted, +1 on setting the FCD aside for bullets sized larger than .355". If there is any post-sizing of the loaded round at the case neck, the brass case wall may spring back out but the now reduced diameter plated bullet won't (it's the metal characteristics of lead vs brass). If post-sizing of finished rounds occurs, then you will decrease the neck tension on the bullet and this may produce inconsistent chamber pressures, which will result in decreased accuracy. I like to see the bulge at the bullet base, which tells me I have good neck tension - FCD will smooth this bulge flat. ;)


k9kev88 said:
Also - I checked my crimp and it is .375, so a smidge tight. The crimp on the FC factory ammo is .376
Click to expand...
+1 on not applying too much taper crimp. Federal factory ammo bullet may be .355" diameter. For .356" diameter Berry's plated bullets, I use at the most .376" taper crimp. Any more, you may cut through the plating (.0035"-.008" thick depending on regular or thick plated) and the bullet may experience plating/lead core separation, which of course will result in poor accuracy. Case wall thickness will vary depending on headstamp and as rcmodel posted, using .377" taper crimp will ensure not cutting into the plating.

FYI, Berry's MFG recommends using lead load data or start-to-mid range jacketed load data - http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q9-c1-How_do_I_load_Berrys_Preferred_Plated_Bullets.aspx

115 gr 9mm plated RN (Berry's RS - Round Shoulder) bullet loaded with 4.3-4.8 gr of W231/HP-38 produce average 2" shot groups at 15 yards off hand for me in various pistols using 1.125"-1.135" OAL.
115 gr LRN W231/HP-38 Diameter .356" OAL 1.100" Start 4.3 gr (1079 fps) 28,400 CUP - Max 4.8 gr (1135 fps) 32,000 CUP

115 gr Speer GDHP W231/HP-38 Diameter .355" OAL 1.125" Start 4.7 gr (1075 fps) 25,300 CUP - Max 5.1 gr (1167 fps) 28,100 CUP
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
I had a similar problem with red dot and 9mm. The powder was too fast and it was stripping the bullet as it went down the barrel instead of spinning it, resulting in keyholing. I now use a slower powder and don't really have any issues. I would also expect a POI shift between 115 grn jacketed ammo at 1200fps and plated 115 at 1000fps.
 
Also - I checked my crimp and it is .375, so a smidge tight.

The crimp on the FC factory ammo is .376
Click to expand...

+1 for bds

The FC bullet is .355" diameter. The Berry plated bullet is .356 diameter. .375" is too tight of a crimp for a "plated" bulletand will show damage if you pull a couple of bullets and check them. There should be NO marks on the plating.

A .377"-.378" FCD taper crimp will work fine.

Win 231/Hp-38 will run fine under that bullet.
 
Yarddog said:
K9Kev88, Try 124 gr plated from berrys, They shoot great out of all my 9's including a Sigma & it shoots to POA ; ) PS Good Luck & Stay Safe
Y/D
Click to expand...
Thanks Yarddog. I did order some Berry's 124 FP last night, so I'm glad to hear they work good from your Sigma. what's your powder of choice for the 124's?
 
- using Lee 4-die set for 9mm w/ slight factory crimp
Click to expand...
There's no such thing as a slight factory crimp on a plated bullet. When you put a cast or plated bullet into the FCD, it gets sized down, no matter where you set the taper crimp. If you want accuracy, use it only for jacketed bullets.
 
GLOOB said:
There's no such thing as a slight factory crimp on a plated bullet. When you put a cast or plated bullet into the FCD, it gets sized down, no matter where you set the taper crimp. If you want accuracy, use it only for jacketed bullets.
Click to expand...
yes, upon examination of a dummy reload made with some adjustments to crimp at both .376 and .377 I can still see some flaking of the plated material around the edge where the case was barely crimped.
 
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