NRA petition to fire AG Holder

[Davek1977]

I hadn't seen that quote before, though I have no doubt about his hatred of gun rights.

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/05/25/obama-were-working-on-gun-control-under-the-radar/
.

During the meeting, President Obama dropped in and, according to Sarah Brady, brought up the issue of gun control, “to fill us in that it was very much on his agenda,” she said.

“I just want you to know that we are working on it,” Brady recalled the president telling them. “We have to go through a few processes, but under the radar.”

Granted, it isn't a DIRECT quote, but I've yet to see any denial it was ever actually said from any source

 

[Double Naught Spy]

You realize how much of normal government work is "under the radar." Anything not being showcased in some manner is under the radar.

 

[wild cat mccane]

You do know that in 2010 the White House was presented with gun control and stalled it, effectively killing it in 2010.

The gun legislation that may pop up this year seems actually pretty reasonable. Close loop holes. Big deal. Make multi sales of semi rifles RIGHT NEXT TO MEXICO BORDER ONLY reportable. So what?

NRA said this admin was going to take your guns. What a load of crap.

Use other sources than just what validates your opinion. Called being well rounded.

 

[Searcher4851]

I love it, we are supposed to believe Obama when he says something threatening, not believe him if he says something concillatory. The Democrats are incompetent and lazy when it comes to doing anything good, but skilled planners and diligent workers when it comes to taking our guns.

So are you saying they are kust lying whenever they speak, no matter what they say?

 

[Searcher4851]

Basically, Holder lied to Congress. His restimony in May of this year that he just found out about it is BS by his own words in a speech he gave in 2009, lauding the program.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs...holder-bragged-about-operation-gunrunner-2009

If that's a criminal offense, he should be tried and jailed. I think that would be more effective than a petition.

 

[wild cat mccane]

That blog talks about Gunrunner.

The NRA petition is about Fast and Furious.

So by talking about Gunrunner, you claim he was talking about Fast and Furious....

 

[cbrgator]

The gun legislation that may pop up this year seems actually pretty reasonable. Close loop holes. Big deal. Make multi sales of semi rifles RIGHT NEXT TO MEXICO BORDER ONLY reportable. So what?

Close loopholes actually means banning all private sales. That means every single gun transfer must be through an FFL, including buying a gift for a family member or selling a gun to your friend in your living room. Maybe you're ok with that. Most of us are not.

 

[wild cat mccane]

Gun show loophole from what I have heard.

But either way, yeah 15 bucks more to protect the seller and buyer, that isn't totally unreasonable. So we agree to disagree on reason.

BUT REGARDLESS, that all misses the point that the WH did not act on that legislation in 2010. This flies in the face of the NRA's claims about Obama. Completely.

 

[hso]

Folks, keep the discussion on the original topic of the petition and don't wander into the weeds.

 

[bumm]

Two minor points:

1. "Closing the loophole" by requiring all sales to go through an FFL pretty much establishes a form of registration by requiring a paper trail on all gun sales. Once this is done, confiscation is MUCH easier, since the government knows where all the guns are, or at least who the last legal owner is.
Of course, the idea of criminals and gangbangers selling guns though an FFL is outright comical.

2. I don't want to see Holder fired at this time. I'd much rather see him have to answer questions about "Fast and Furious" and hopefully decide he doesn't want to take the fall for those higher up. Melson refused to step down as head of the BATF, and instead showed up to to answer questions with his own lawyer. I'd like to see how high this thing goes...

 

[Remo223]

[QUOTE

BUT REGARDLESS, that all misses the point that the WH did not act on that legislation in 2010. This flies in the face of the NRA's claims about Obama. Completely

.[/QUOTE]



I don't know why you think that. obviously that legislation is a president killer. It's called self preservation. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[Chief_Cabioch]

the left went these routes before, and it got many of them in the unemployment lines, why do they think the results this time will be different ?

 

[wild cat mccane]

Guns, in America, have never been taken away. Why do people draw this extreme? Even on the clip ban over 10 rounds, they were still legal to own, sell, and use....

Knowing that it hurt Clinton, what is amazing is that SOME of those that are politically right STILL believe the NRA when it says the left is trying to take guns away with some crazy legislation.
Thought process:
1. admit AWB hurt Democrats.
2. admit Democrats know AWB hurt Democrats.
3. NRA says Democrats are going to take guns away.
4. Democrats are going to take guns away.
5. wait, what?

It is not even funny how circular that logic is.

 

[whalerman]

Wildcat, it doesn't take a genius to understand what leading Donkeys have been telling us for years, from Feinstein to Lautenberg. "Mr and Mrs America, turn them all in". That was one of yours talking. Pretending it won't happen is not a reasonable reaction to this kind of irrational behavior. The values aren't absolute, but there is an undeniable trend here. I'd welcome you to come visit us here in the Empire State (NY) if you see no connection between party affiliation and proliferation of gun laws. We ranked at the bottom in a recent review of personal freedoms. 50th, out of 57 states, or so I heard during the campaign.

 

[sig220mw]

Wild cat are you really that naive. When Obama first came in he had bigger fish to fry and he hadn't started stacking the supreme court yet. He is a leftist Democrat and they all believe alike when it comes to the 2A. Sure there may be a small minority of them that side with us but when push comes to shove and they want to be helped at campaign time or get good assignments they will vote to cut our throats. That is what is wrong with the GOP, they have too many independent minded people that will side with the left and not show party loyalty.

 

[alsaqr]

His restimony in May of this year that he just found out about it is BS by his own words in a speech he gave in 2009, lauding the program.

Holder was most likely briefed on Project GunRunner by the outgoing Bush administration: The program started in Laredo, TX in 2005 and became a full blown gun interdiction program in 2006.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/programs/project-gunrunner/


From an ATF annnouncement in 2008:

ATF Expands Efforts To Combat Illegal Flow Of Firearms Into Mexico

It is Operation Fast and Furious that went drastically wrong. Operation Fast and Furious started in the fall of 2009 and ended in late 2010.

Too many gunowners fail to make a distinction between Project GunRunner and Operation Fast and Furious.

 

[hso]

This entire argument about the President and the Administration's intent to enact regulations and laws to restrict/prohibit firearms ownership is a foolish distraction from the original focus of the thread. You'd almost expect this red herring to have been thrown down to derail the topic.

Holder's role in "Fast and Furious" and his obstruction of Congress to prevent information on the details of the catastrophically failed program that is a key element in a propaganda program implicating American gun owners is the topic. It is clear that F&F has funneled firearms into Mexico. It is clear that those firearms fed the violent crime wave in Mexico. It is also clear that those firearms have been used in violent crimes on U.S. soil and have resulted in the deaths of U.S. law enforcement officers on U.S. soil.

What greater outrage is needed before Congress acts to remove Holder and strip-mine the agencies involved to find out who the architects were of such a wrong-headed scheme and who had knowledge of it and didn't act to stop it?

 

[wild cat mccane]

The problem was exactly what I said earlier, and was just repeated. Those few on the right who think the NRA is leading a good fight are using two different situations. Fast and Furious is not Gunnrunner.

We all have opinions. But just reading from your opinion base is so SO silly. The NRA is betting on people mixing up Gunrunner and Fast and Furious.

This thread proves the NRA is correct in assuming people can do such an obviously biased/incorrect/silly thing.

 

[whalerman]

The NRA warns of impending action by Democrat leadership. Simple. There's plenty of evidence Holder and Co is not interested in laws or common sense or constitutional issues. The Mexican gun smuggling operation had a clear intent to set up a move toward more and more gun restrictions. Collect some bad press from a complicit media, wave it in front of idiots, then proceed to expand some laws. It is a common pattern. To pretend otherwise is foolish, silly, and biased.

 

[hso]

wild cat mccaine,

The NRA background letter points to Fast and Furious as the reason for the call for Holder's resignation. Since Fast and Furious was an effort within the Gunrunner program the supposed "confusion" might not be any confusion at all, but a matter of semantics. The CBS news stories on Fast and Furious also cite Gunrunner as do others. Fast and Furious was an outgrowth of the more benign Gunrunner program.

Regardless of what you call it, the intentional support of straw purchases of thousands of firearms intended for illegal export to Mexican drug cartels and some of which subsequently were used in violent crimes on this side of the border is a controversy worthy of national attention and national outrage, regardless of who is in office.

 

[Chief_Cabioch]

wild cat, I note a bit of sarchasm regarding Gun Confiscation , if the Liberal Progressive Democrats weren't always looking at more and more needless gun legislation, with more and more stricter controls that only aids those NOT following the law, you would be correct in your assesment of many being Overly Concerned, problem is, when I see what obama has accomplished going over the heads of Congress, and Senators willing to give up thier Own power to allow obama to spend more of Our money, and his willingness to Subvert the US Constitution by using and Executive order to accomplish his goals, it makes me worried what else he'll try next, since Brady was shot the Left has been NON Stop at ignoring the statistics, and lying to accomplish the goals they had of "Assault Weapons Bans, etc. only a few Elected officials stand in the way of More restrictive gun laws, and outright bans on others, recently the ATF was considering just such a move, and regardless of Statistics to the Contrary liberal progressives will use any method available to make guns a thing of the past......abd because you dont see it, doesnt mean it isnt happening.

 

[Chief_Cabioch]

A Note to Moderators, if an accusation requires a reply, thats what I intend to do, if thats a Violation of the rules so be it, to stand here and say to me and others we are wrong to assume there is anything sinister being done, like Gun Confiscation, and Gun registering, the FACTS are, the ATF and Melson have admited breaking their own laws, and for some purpose other than a Legitimate "Sting" Operation", and putting GPS Device in (2) of 2500 weapons for the purpose of "Tracking" them is foolish, this is a Forum, on I'll express my Views or I'll happily move down the road,

If replies to comments like Wild Cats arent within rules then Wildcat shouldnt be making them his statements to "Bait" others into any rebuttle, it's incorrect to assume some are
paranoid because of the fears they have of those in this particular administration to do as they please, ..America is FREE because of ONE Supreme Court Justice, and a Handfull of Congress and Senators......I dont know about wild cat.....but to me thats a pretty THIN Margin.......


and Wild Cat....for the record.....You dont know what this administration has up it's sleeve.......

 

[Chief_Cabioch]

wild cat, what government Mandate does the ATF have to Violate US and Mexican Laws ?, and to achieve what goal?....ATF wasnt created to put guns in the hands of criminals....for ANY reasons.....and there is Nothing about the death of a Border Patrol Agent that qualifies as a "Mistake".......no matter WHAT side you're on.

 

[Chief_Cabioch]

"The gun legislation that may pop up this year seems actually pretty reasonable. Close loop holes. Big deal. Make multi sales of semi rifles RIGHT NEXT TO MEXICO BORDER ONLY reportable. So what?"

wild cat, ....theres Nothing "Reasonable" about any gun control.......that is what promts backlash and negativity to your statements.....NO Gun Laws haver ever been successful at stopping Gun Violence.....if you have evidence to the contrary....lets see it.

 

[Chief_Cabioch]

watch this video, tell ME obama didnt know, or give the orders to begin this whole deal....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PNhYk9NuNc&feature=related