Nuke all Muslims

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Sgt Stevo I must disagree

Sgt Stevo,

I want to call attention to your statement wherein you said:

"All churches are made by man. Not God."

Man did not start "the church" or, more accurately, God's "ekklesia" (greek word usually translated "church"). It was instituted by God through His Son, Jesus Christ. Jesus, Himself, recognized His church as far back as His ministry as can be found in Matthew 16:18 when he was speaking to Peter:

"And I tell you that you are Peter and on this rock I will build MY church and the gates of Hades will not overcome it."

While I can concur with you and with the general sentiment that we should not be so quick to condemn a whole group of people simply because they have some bad apples in their midst, at the same time, we can't throw the baby out with the bathwater where Christ's church is concerned.

All the best,

Greg
 
Between ahenry and GRD's posts, the problem is fairly well laid out. It has been there from the beginning, and apparently, there is little effort being extended to change any perceptions.

What conclusions are people expected to come to, considering one can only draw conclusions from whatever evidence is presented to them?

Ron
 
g_gunter, not that this is the place for it, but you might want to check your interpretaion of Matthew, check Tertullian (I willhave to check my edition but it is anearly one) for example.

But no mind, PM me if you want the reference

Wiljesuiteducated Alaska
 
No disrespect intended. I was trying to make a point. What I mean is this. Not all people in the same church, temple, etc. Are the same. The way, and place you worship. Has no bearing on your idea of right and wrong. I must be careful in the future. Like I have said. I doubt. That the guys in hot water on this forum. Want to nuke anybody.


What we all see in the news. Makes us all angry. But we have an enemy. Dirtbag killers. Once they make the decision to be our enemy. we have no choice how to react. Lets send our energy in that direction. I have a simple rule. And the people who know me, know this. I like anybody. As long as they dont want to hurt me, me family or my country. Or countrymen. I have and will put it on the line for any of the above. I believe. That the highroad is full of good, Like minded people. I dont go to any other forum. So it distresses me, that there is this much back and fourth crap. I have shot with the guys from the highroad. Good, guys. One of them fixed my sks for me. And let me shoot his ak. SO I suggest, we get back to gun related stuff. That we all agree on. Thanks stevo.
 
Oleg,

There is a vast difference between the past actions of an essentially despotic gov’t of a given country from which a certain individual has chosen to leave, and the actions of certain professed adherents of a given widespread religion.

In the former, the very actions of that individual underscore his disagreement and distaste for the old actions of a tyrannical gov’t. In the latter, it behooves those sane individuals who also adhere to that certain religion of which terrorist seem to grow from, to distance themselves from the actions of those that would seek the destruction of my country. If indeed distance from those individuals is truly what is desired…
 
The problem is perception and misdirected anger. Our government, which most tend to distrust, tell us that muslims are not to blame. Facts seemingly tell us otherwise: the hijackers were muslims, the people dancing in the streets are muslims, the people we are fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq are largely muslim. The news tells us one side and the government, as they are incompetent by nature, tells us all muslims are not evil. This is a very important point and one that has not been expressed vigorously enough.

Americans are typically not deep and critical thinkers. We are busy and can absorb only so much information. Based on the information we have assimilated it would appear that this is developing into a religious war. Again, a misperception, and grossly wrong.

Bush was criticized strongly for his perceived simple-minded categroization of the perpetrators of 9/11 as evil-doers. This was a decent assessment but has been washed away by political discourse.

Who are we fighting? Lee Harris has published a piece here explaining the new enemy that we face. Al Qaeda is performing theatre in a fantasy. Please read the entire article (a commitment to be sure) and you will understand that we are not fighting muslims in general.

Bush needs to have a fireside chat with America about who we are fighting, why it is different, and what we must do to win. Bush has understood this conflict from the beginning but has not communicated very well. It must be done.

Indiscriminate killing by "nukes" or bombs or a rifle is wrong. There are an entrenched few who are the enemy and they must be eradicated.

So I see the conflagrations on this board as a manifestation of the assimilation of information that we have (or don't have) during a very heated time. We are a small part of society that reflects the opinions and feelings of society as a whole. The transgressors (nule 'em crowd) are striking out because the problem in totality may be overwhelming to them because they probably do not have the information necessary to make a better choice. This goes back to the "think twice, post once" criteria.
 
In periods of high emotion, there will be some sorts of maltreatment, whether physical or verbal. "Polarization" and "opinionated" are appropriate words, along with "perceptions". It's unfair, but I guarantee it will come about… So, once again I bring up "It's not your duty to understand me; it's my duty to make myself understood." And that's a two-way street. Following that dictum requires rational thought, not emotional histrionics.
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I agree, but I would add one thing. I long ago decided that while I would make every effort to speak and act as a gentleman, politely and with as much courtesy as possible, in the end of a matter I am unable to control how another person chooses to react to my words or deeds. Therefore, if something must be done or said and I have done or said it as politely as I can, I don’t concern myself with the reactions of the other person(s).

Allow me to provide an example. I have certain views about some specific issues and these views are not held by everybody, most notably they are not held to by certain relatives of mine. Knowing that, I have on many occasions avoided certain conversations and even when I have been drug into those conversations I have looked for the polite way to state my case. However, there are times when despite my best efforts to be polite, my particular view is just seen as offensive by certain members of my family. So be it. I will not apologize for my thoughts, nor will I pretend to believe something other than what I do for the sake of their “feelingsâ€. As I said, in the end of a matter, how another person chooses to react to my views is not my concern or under my control.
 
but what I do know is that in Pheonix, with a Muslim population of >50,000, only 30 managed to attend a recent well-publicized 'Muslims Against Terror' rally.

This is the problem we are discussing. "Muslims Against Terror" is sounding more and more like a very small, very quiet little club.

- Gabe
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What is your point? Very few men attend anti violence against women rallies. Why should they have to apologize for what others of the same religion do?
 
There will be no fireside chat by Bush. Lee Harris's essay is provocative, and I think he's on to something there. But if he is, then the War on Terror is really a War on Arrested Development or a War against Narcissism. That would mean we would also have to confront the increasing number of irrational, escapist Americans who confuse consumerism and crap culture with the challenges of the principles laid forth in our Constitution and Bill of Rights.

I think, religion-wise, we will get nowhere glossing each other's sacred scriptures or parsing historical malfeasance. Better to judge men--individual men, wherever, whatever--by their actions right here, right now. We must apply reason and not surrender to "fantasy ideology," which is another way of describing a rational mind o'erwhelmed by chaotic emotions and wish fulfillment.
 
No barb aimed at you, 7.62.

Terrorism is a tactic, not an enemy. For me the struggle is Reason, and the virtues of the Enlightenment, against Unreason, tribalism, feudalism, fascism, collectivism, and the whole merrye crew. Turning this into a war of extreme Christianity versus extreme Islam leads us astray. Meanwhile, we are all trying to figure out the proper balance between social and cultural solidarity and the claims of individualism. That may be one thing we are working out here historically, on both sides. Religion is a good and useful lubricant, but as we have all learned with our firearms you can over err on the side of overlubing.
 
No offense taken. I was wincing because Americans, in general, do live in fantasy (pop culture, American Idol, Survivor, etc.). Your turnabout on the western psyche was an unexpected lightning bolt. I saw it immediately AFTER you stated it. I guess I need to look both ways before crossing the street. ;)
 
Lee Harris has published a piece here explaining the new enemy that we face.
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I heard him on NPR, of all places, and he was quite interesting and thought-provoking. As opposed to being merely a doctrinaire leftist speaking in bland monotones, like usual on NPR. :p
 
Christian Identity Movement

hammer4nc

You stated:
"The christian identity movement's, exclusionary beliefs don't represent mainstream christianity. In a similar fashion, is the strict aderence to "khalifah" , a tiny, violent, minority aberration of the islamic faith?"

This statement can be interpreted or mis-interpreted quite negatively by some of us depending on what is being represented.

1. What is this "christian identity movement" you are referring to and what is meant by "exclusionary beliefs?"
2. How is it contrasted with "mainstream christianity?"
3. What IS "mainstream christianity?"
4. How is it comparable to the "tiny, violent, minority aberration of the Islamic faith" being played out today?
5. Are you a Christian, Muslim, Athiest, Agnostic, or other?

Thanks,

g_gunter
 
Correction for hammer4nc

hammer4nc:

I sincerely apologize for mis-understanding part of your post by not recognizing that your last sentence was a question rather than a statement of opinion so please disregard my question #4.

Thanks,

g_gunter
 
g-gunter, it would be better to do a Google search on "Christian Identity". There's a ton of stuff written about those guys. From what I've read of them, Heinrich Himmler was a wussy.

Art
 
Man did not start "the church" or, more accurately, God's "ekklesia" (greek word usually translated "church"). It was instituted by God through His Son, Jesus Christ. Jesus, Himself, recognized His church as far back as His ministry as can be found in Matthew 16:18 when he was speaking to Peter:

"And I tell you that you are Peter and on this rock I will build MY church and the gates of Hades will not overcome it."
:
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Not to start a religous war, but you must be very careful in reading the English translations and drawing conclusions. There are many who believe that when Christ spoke of His church, he was referring to the body of people who would follow the teachings which He set forth in His ministry. There are also many who can show much evidence that the Roman Catholic Church which claims Apostletic Succession (ie, specific powers over men because Christ anointed their church) shares very little in it's core beliefs with the original tenets of Christianity.

I agree in general with the previous statement that churches are the work of men, not God, and it is certainly historical facxt that the corruption of the Church that Christ founded was from men. What remains of it is the subject of debate.
 
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