Ode to the Modern Speer Grand Slam Bullet

[Garandimal]

M McDindi/africahunting -

I initially purchased 10 boxes of .308 180gr that had a huge discount offer from Speer. Intention was to just use them for range loads for several 30/06's we have. Started working up loads and was very disappointed in the accuracy out of 5 different rifles. Called Speer and the very first thing I was asked was if I was using a Lee Factory Crimp Die - yes. He said don't. Just use my regular seating die. That one change was the key. Next batch without the LFCD and those bullets shot as well or better than TSX's in all 5 rifles.

Took the Ruger 77 RSI in 30/06 for a PG cull hunt to Botswana last June (2019). That one trip I shot 20 impala and 10 blue w/b and only recovered 3 bullets. The 3 were from impala that were Texas heart shot, just off center of the spines and traveled along the spine, ruined the backstraps and stopped at the shoulder. Everything else was shot broadside through the shoulders and passed through.

I was so pleased with them that as soon as got home and ordered a BOATLOAD of them and took advantage of the Speer rebate promotion. I used them again later last year in our trip to Namibia culling mountain zebra and then over to Botswana again culling impala and blue w/b with my wife. All of last year, between those two trips there were 60+ head of PG from impala to zebra taken with them and only those first 3 were recovered.

Came home from that trip and ordered up another boatload of the 308's and a boatload of .375 285gr ones. Same thing, accuracy sucked with the LFCD. Leave that out and they shoot as good or better than TSX's too.

Will be using them again this Aug (hopefully) for another 40 head cull hunt in Botswana with a different 30/06 rifle and the 375 Ruger just to test them in that caliber.

TSX's and other premium bonded are fine, no question at all. But I really like to practice with what I'm going to use and at the price point I got one the Speer and the quantity I now have on hand, it's not likely I'll need anything else.

​

GR

 

[H&Hhunter]

Thanks for the heads up on the LFCD. I’ve had accuracy issues with the Grand Slam bullets but have been crimping. I’ve also had really good terminal performance with Grand Slams. I’m not convinced I’d use them on Cape Buffalo with the .375 but for any of the PG they should be fine.

 

[pert near]

This is the kind of post I like to read. Enough REAL information to draw some conclusion about the Speer GS. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

 

[horsemen61]

Good thread nothing wrong with getting another bullet to try

 

[Mr. Zorg]

There are also documented less than favorable experiences with the single composition lead core Speer Grand Slam bulets which first appeared after ATK purchased Speer in 2001.

This thread from that same forum shows an experience by a member with username Edge with a same design 7mm 145 grain Speer Grand Slam bullet.

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/speer-grand-slam-bullets.49249/page-2

It's also the only other forum with a web search hit using "Speer Grand Slam shear lock", with a post by username Red Devil, besides the two threads here where Garandimal has used that term. A photo that looks the same of a sectioned Speer Grand Slam bullet against a dark green (?) background appears in all 3 threads.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/speer-grand-slam-bullets-is-it-just-me.851129/

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/bonded-vs-monolithic-bullets.869637/page-6

One of Red Devil's last posts in 2019 on that African hunting forum was about Norma Oryx bullets, concocting an image lifted from Norma's web site with text that had no factual connection to that image. Norma USA is one of the site sponsors of that Africa hunting board.

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/longer-shots-9-3x62.51346/#post-558053

That member recently resumed posting on that board about Speer Grand Slam bullets though.

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/speer-grand-slams-from-speer-bullets.33163/page-2#post-673097

 

[Random 8]

I like them. A lot. I don't really hunt anything that requires a premium, but I find them to work extremely well in medium for caliber, high velocity applications. I'm shooting them in my .280 rem at 145 grains, and they act like a cup and core plus. In other words, perfect for my application on large whitetail. I'd have no problem tossing them at heavier critters in a heavy for caliber application.

 

[pert near]

This is my confession as a mere deer hunter. I'll never be able to shoot as much game as Garandimal so my results really will always just be an opinion. When I started reloading many years back I started using Speer 130gr SPFB Hotcores. They shot the best in my Rem .270 so I stuck with them. They killed deer of various sizes like lightning & to determine retained weight, you'd have to actually recover a bullet. Over a lifetime this bullet has accounted for well over 100 deer & a few antelope & a few hogs. I have managed to recover a couple of bullets & some maybe retained 50% weight & one I remember shed it's core. But really, the point is moot, since if you recover the bullet, its job was obviously successful. With my fondness for Speer, when they introduced the .277 Grand Slam bullet I just had to try it. A premium bullet at a premium price. I shot a couple of deer & the results were great, just as good as my old Speer HC's. I did like the fact that the tips didn't get smashed up in the magazine as easily. But I switched back to my original Speer bullet. Not to say I have a wandering eye, but I have a smaller .277 cartridge that I have been shooting a few deer & axis with Speer's Gold-Dot 130 gr bullets. These bullets are sold as a component by Federal under the Fusion name. They are priced just like any regular cup-n-core bullet but are special since they don't have a conventional copper jacket. Their jacket is plated on & therefore there is nothing to shed. Weight retention should always be close to 100%. So far my results have been very good but a critter will have to stop one for me to actually examine & weigh it!

I wish I had the wherewith-all to send Garandimal a box of .308 Gold-Dots, I really like his testing method!

 

[Garandimal]

There are also documented less than favorable experiences with the single composition lead core Speer Grand Slam bulets which first appeared after ATK purchased Speer in 2001.

This thread from that same forum shows an experience by a member with username Edge with a same design 7mm 145 grain Speer Grand Slam bullet.

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/speer-grand-slam-bullets.49249/page-2

It's also the only other forum with a web search hit using "Speer Grand Slam shear lock", with a post by username Red Devil, besides the two threads here where Garandimal has used that term. A photo that looks the same of a sectioned Speer Grand Slam bullet against a dark green (?) background appears in all 3 threads.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/speer-grand-slam-bullets-is-it-just-me.851129/

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/bonded-vs-monolithic-bullets.869637/page-6

One of Red Devil's last posts in 2019 on that African hunting forum was about Norma Oryx bullets, concocting an image lifted from Norma's web site with text that had no factual connection to that image. Norma USA is one of the site sponsors of that Africa hunting board.

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/longer-shots-9-3x62.51346/#post-558053

That member recently resumed posting on that board about Speer Grand Slam bullets though.

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/speer-grand-slams-from-speer-bullets.33163/page-2#post-673097

So, your Academic inclinations brings you to the conclusion that one example of a $0.30 bullet that killed its game, compared to a documented experience of over 60 head of game killed, that the bullet is, somehow, not good?

go out and actually shoot some GS bullets into things... like game.




GR

 

[Garandimal]

This is my confession as a mere deer hunter. I'll never be able to shoot as much game as Garandimal so my results really will always just be an opinion. When I started reloading many years back I started using Speer 130gr SPFB Hotcores. They shot the best in my Rem .270 so I stuck with them. They killed deer of various sizes like lightning & to determine retained weight, you'd have to actually recover a bullet. Over a lifetime this bullet has accounted for well over 100 deer & a few antelope & a few hogs. I have managed to recover a couple of bullets & some maybe retained 50% weight & one I remember shed it's core. But really, the point is moot, since if you recover the bullet, its job was obviously successful. With my fondness for Speer, when they introduced the .277 Grand Slam bullet I just had to try it. A premium bullet at a premium price. I shot a couple of deer & the results were great, just as good as my old Speer HC's. I did like the fact that the tips didn't get smashed up in the magazine as easily. But I switched back to my original Speer bullet. Not to say I have a wandering eye, but I have a smaller .277 cartridge that I have been shooting a few deer & axis with Speer's Gold-Dot 130 gr bullets. These bullets are sold as a component by Federal under the Fusion name. They are priced just like any regular cup-n-core bullet but are special since they don't have a conventional copper jacket. Their jacket is plated on & therefore there is nothing to shed. Weight retention should always be close to 100%. So far my results have been very good but a critter will have to stop one for me to actually examine & weigh it!

I wish I had the wherewith-all to send Garandimal a box of .308 Gold-Dots, I really like his testing method!

To be clear, while I have quite a bit of North American hunting experience, and have used the Speer GS bullet with good results, the OP is the experience of M McDindi, as linked at the top of the OP.


As for bonded bullets - they may have their place, but not with me.

Tend to stay with heavy for caliber soft point bullets, or monometals. If a Cup'n'Core is not study enough, then I like partitions/A-Frames.

The only bonded bullet I have is for the 9.3x62, along with Swift A-Frames and the Speer Hot-Cor offerings. But this is not a general N/A hunting round.




GR

 

[Garandimal]

...One of Red Devil's last posts in 2019 on that African hunting forum was about Norma Oryx bullets, concocting an image lifted from Norma's web site with text that had no factual connection to that image. Norma USA is one of the site sponsors of that Africa hunting board...

Both the image and the impact velocity are straight from Norma.

Range was calculated with a Shooting Calculator.






GR

 

[Captcurt]

I haven't shot a lot of game with the Grand Slam and only recovered one. I hunted a big 11 pt. whitetail for a week and finally grunted him in. I was shooting down at him at the awesome range of about 30 yards. I hit him under the white throat patch, took out about 6" of neck vertebrae, mushed the lungs and arteries above the heart and stopped under the hide at the sternum. Perfect mushroom. This was out of a 270 pushing a 130 gr with 56grs of IMR-4350.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

So, your Academic inclinations brings you to the conclusion that one example of a $0.30 bullet that killed its game, compared to a documented experience of over 60 head of game killed, that the bullet is, somehow, not good?

Fascinating.

Seems you have some emotional baggage associated with this issue.

Suggest researching that.

Or, better yet... go out and actually shoot some GS bullets into things... like game.




GR

Let's see you use the Quote feature to valid that claim, with a different color font, in my post.

It's obvious you didn't honestly read what I wrote even when you embedded it in your post. Your allegations about me are entirely irrational and ndemonstrably non-factual. Just like your post about Norma Oryx bullets as username Red Devil on africahunting.com My inclinations on both boards are for facts. It appears you find that quite troubling.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

Both the image and the impact velocity are straight from Norma.

Range was calculated with a Shooting Calculator.

The butt-hurt... is yours.




GR

And the thumbnail images saved on my post on Africahunting.com still factually show Norma picjed 1640 fps = 500 m/s as a reference speed in a round number in m/s to demonstrate expansion comparison of various bullets including the Norma Oryx. You.lifted that image and posted it saying this demonstrated the minimum impact expansion velocity of the Norma Oryx bullet is 1640 fps, which was not true there or here.

Here is the current web link that shows the image you lifted then added your own not factual text to accompany.

https://www.norma-ammunition.com/en-us/technical-information/expansion/impact-of-speed

As Sgt. Friday said, Just the facts ma'am.

Here's another place where Norma again publishes Norma's minimum impact expansion velocity is 1500 fps for their Oryx bullet, comparing it to the now discontinued lead free Kalahari bullet - stating the Kalahari bullet has a minimum impact expansion velocity of 1650 fps and the Vulkan bullet has a minimum impact expansion velocity of 1800 fps. Plain text from Norma.

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2012/6/15/norma-usa-ammunition/

"The Oryx needs about 1500 fps and the Vulkan about 1800 fps."

"The Kalahari only needs to impact at 1650 fps or faster for expansion to begin."

The deliberate avoidance of the facts is demonstrably all yours, @Garandimal = Red Devil, repeatedly. On all the linked threads I posted in my initial post in this thread, and now including this thread.

Here's another article listing 1500 fps minimum impact expansion velocity for the Norma Oryx bullet.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2012/3/21/a-century-of-brass-and-bullets/

"Low expansion velocity is not just a hallmark of the Norma Kalahari bullet. The Plastic Point bullet will show some expansion when impacting as slow as 500 fps and will deliver violent expansion at just 1,000 fps. The Oryx needs to impact at about 1,500 fps to show meaningful expansion and, at 1,800 fps, the Vulkan needs the highest impact velocity of all Norma bullets. Again, and especially in the case of the Plastic Point, this is below the velocities needed for most American-made big game bullets to start expanding."

 

[Garandimal]

And the thumbnail images saved on my post on Africahunting.com still factually show Norma picjed 1640 fps = 500 m/s as a reference speed in a round number in m/s to demonstrate expansion comparison of various bullets including the Norma Oryx. You.lifted that image and posted it saying this demonstrated the minimum impact expansion velocity of the Norma Oryx bullet is 1640 fps, which was not true there or here.

As Sgt. Friday said, Just the facts ma'am.

Here's another place where Norma again publishes Norma's minimum impact expansion velocity is 1500 fps for their Oryx bullet, comparing it to the now discontinued lead free Kalahari bullet - stating the Kalahari bullet has a minimum impact expansion velocity of 1650 fps and the Vulkan bullet has a minimum impact expansion velocity of 1800 fps. Plain text from Norma.

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2012/6/15/norma-usa-ammunition/

"The Oryx needs about 1500 fps and the Vulkan about 1800 fps."

"The Kalahari only needs to impact at 1650 fps or faster for expansion to begin."

The deliberate avoidance of the facts is demonstrably all yours, @Garandimal = Red Devil, repeatedly. On all the linked threads I posted in my initial post in this thread, and now including this thread.

The facts are there, as obtained from Norma, and presented by me.


Academics have a tenancy to live the illusion of their own construction.

Go out and shoot something.

And then tell us what you have.

Thanks.




GR

 

[Mr. Zorg]

And as our resident Academic malcon


Your Academic enthusiasm has caused you to come unhinged, as you did at the AfricanHunting site.

The facts are there, as obtained from Norma, and presented by me.


Your issues... are yours alone.

Academics have a tenancy to live the illusion of their own construction.

Go out and shoot something.

And then tell up what you have.

Thanks.




GR

You are deliberately avoiding any of the web links in my prior post - what's your motivation to keep saying something different than Norma has repeatedly published, 1500 fps across two forums?

Here they are again.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2012/3/21/a-century-of-brass-and-bullets/

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2012/6/15/norma-usa-ammunition/

 

[Garandimal]

And as our resident resident Academic malcontent

You are deliberately avoiding any of the web links in my prior post - what's your motivation to keep saying something different than Norma has repeatedly published, 1500 fps across two forums?

Here they are again.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2012/3/21/a-century-of-brass-and-bullets/

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2012/6/15/norma-usa-ammunition/

Repeating Manufacture's claims... repeatedly... is Propaganda.

I used Their Ballistic Data - to support my own conclusion.




GR

 

[Garandimal]

And, thanks to our resident Academic malcontent, this was my response to the OP, and my experiences w/ the GS bullet, posted elsewhere.


This is a very difficult bullet to get any corroboration on.


My initial experience with the GS goes back to the Speer Nitrex ammunition days, when I was looking for a factory .270 WCF spitzer load similar to the 150 gr. Remington Core-Lokt RN.

Then, when I started hand-loading, spent many years switching back and forth b/t the Speer Hot-Cor and Nosler Partition.

Now I am loading the current .277/150 gr. GS as an omni-load for North American game.

When I acquired a 6.5x55 Swede last Spring, I did the same, using the .264/140 gr. GS.


Both loads use IMR 4831 powder, with velocities in the 27-2800 fps range respectively.

Both bullets have similar SDs to the 180 gr. .308, and both produce similar results.

Good accuracy, positive tests with good expansion and weight retention, and pass-throughs on game with good wound channels.


As it is not a Partition/Bonded/Monometal, consider avoiding initial heavy shoulder joints and humerus if the range is really close.

But other than that, for a $0.30/pop meat-getter bullet?

I like'em.




GR

 

[Mr. Zorg]

https://www.norma-ammunition.com/en-us/technical-information/expansion/impact-of-speed


Search phrase


IMPACT OF SPEED
It is impossible for a hunting bullet to perform at its best in all situations. The velocity on impact, the location of the hit, and the design of the bullet are only some of the many factors that can affect the outcome of the shot. We have produced a schematic diagram of various bullets and how they perform at different velocities in ballistic gelatine. We hope this will help you choose the right bullet for the precise conditions and requirements of your particular hunt.

If the jacket is thin, which means that the bullet expands easily, the effect is usually very good for clean lung shots. However, if the same bullet encounters a heavy bone before it has completely entered the lungs, the effect can be that it expands too rapidly and breaks up before it penetrates deeply enough to damage vital organs. Put simply, penetration is poor.

On the other hand, a bullet with a thick rigid jacket to ensure penetration, can perform less well in clean lung shots because the expansion is less dramatic. The result of this is often that the quarry runs longer after being hit. The deep penetration however, ensures that the animal’s vital organs are hit and the shot is fatal even if there is an impact on a heavy bone.



Velocity 1640 fps
Vulkan - Weight 180 gr Despite its low velocity, which corresponds to about 350 yds range from a .30-06, the Vulkan bullet expands.



Oryx - Weight 180 gr The Oryx has also expanded, but somewhat less than the Vulkan.



Swift A-frame - Weight 180 gr The heavy jacket of the Swift A-Frame has prevented the bullet from expanding significantly. However, penetration is very deep.





Velocity 2297 fps
Vulkan - Weight 180 gr At this velocity, corresponding to a range of 150 yds from a .30-06, the Vulkan bullet has really expanded. It is also clear, however, that this more notable expansion causes considerably less penetration.





Oryx - Weight 180 gr Notable expansion and good penetration due to the bonding which prevents breakup of the bullet.



Swift A-frame - Weight 180 gr Deep, wide, wound channel.





Velocity 2953 fps
Vulkan - Weight 180 gr Wide initial wound channel. However, penetration is quickly reduced because of the rapid expansion and increased diameter of the bullet, plus the fact that the jacket and the core have begun to separate.



Oryx - Weight 180 gr Wide initial wound channel but good penetration nevertheless. This is because the jacket and core did not separate, giving almost 100% weight retention.



Swift A-frame - Weight 180 gr Despite the very high entry velocity, the bullet has retained almost 100% of its weight. The small diameter of the mushroom allows deep penetration.



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The picture is clear.

Look again.

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/longer-shots-9-3x62.51346/#post-558053

Tell us all about your bullistic calculator

 

[rust collector]

What about 308 Federal Fusion 150s?

 

[Garandimal]

https://www.norma-ammunition.com/en-us/technical-information/expansion/impact-of-speed


Search phrase


IMPACT OF SPEED
It is impossible for a hunting bullet to perform at its best in all situations. The velocity on impact, the location of the hit, and the design of the bullet are only some of the many factors that can affect the outcome of the shot. We have produced a schematic diagram of various bullets and how they perform at different velocities in ballistic gelatine. We hope this will help you choose the right bullet for the precise conditions and requirements of your particular hunt.

If the jacket is thin, which means that the bullet expands easily, the effect is usually very good for clean lung shots. However, if the same bullet encounters a heavy bone before it has completely entered the lungs, the effect can be that it expands too rapidly and breaks up before it penetrates deeply enough to damage vital organs. Put simply, penetration is poor.

On the other hand, a bullet with a thick rigid jacket to ensure penetration, can perform less well in clean lung shots because the expansion is less dramatic. The result of this is often that the quarry runs longer after being hit. The deep penetration however, ensures that the animal’s vital organs are hit and the shot is fatal even if there is an impact on a heavy bone.



Velocity 1640 fps
Vulkan - Weight 180 gr Despite its low velocity, which corresponds to about 350 yds range from a .30-06, the Vulkan bullet expands.

View attachment 924447

Oryx - Weight 180 gr The Oryx has also expanded, but somewhat less than the Vulkan.

View attachment 924448

Swift A-frame - Weight 180 gr The heavy jacket of the Swift A-Frame has prevented the bullet from expanding significantly. However, penetration is very deep.

View attachment 924449



Velocity 2297 fps
Vulkan - Weight 180 gr At this velocity, corresponding to a range of 150 yds from a .30-06, the Vulkan bullet has really expanded. It is also clear, however, that this more notable expansion causes considerably less penetration.

View attachment 924450



Oryx - Weight 180 gr Notable expansion and good penetration due to the bonding which prevents breakup of the bullet.

View attachment 924451

Swift A-frame - Weight 180 gr Deep, wide, wound channel.

View attachment 924452



Velocity 2953 fps
Vulkan - Weight 180 gr Wide initial wound channel. However, penetration is quickly reduced because of the rapid expansion and increased diameter of the bullet, plus the fact that the jacket and the core have begun to separate.

View attachment 924453

Oryx - Weight 180 gr Wide initial wound channel but good penetration nevertheless. This is because the jacket and core did not separate, giving almost 100% weight retention.

View attachment 924454

Swift A-frame - Weight 180 gr Despite the very high entry velocity, the bullet has retained almost 100% of its weight. The small diameter of the mushroom allows deep penetration.

View attachment 924455

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Norma is a registered trademark of RUAG Ammotec, a RUAG Group Company | Copyright © 2019 RUAG Ammotec GmbH
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The picture is clear.

Look again.

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/longer-shots-9-3x62.51346/#post-558053

Tell us all about your bullistic calculator

WOT Propaganda... is still Propaganda.

You have ZERO(0.0) original thought or experience in this matter, which coincides with your reliance on manufacture's claims.

The Ballistic calculator was used to extract Range from muzzle velocity and impact velocity.

Based on that, and the expansion and wound data also provided by Norma, I concluded:


They may initiate expansion at 1500 fps., under optimal conditions, but that is an impact velocity that would need to be thoroughly tested before relied upon in the field.

This is their (Norma) Oryx 1640 fps (~ 340 yds) impact velocity test:



Minimum acceptable - under unknown conditions.




GR

 

[horsey300]

What about 308 Federal Fusion 150s?

They penetrate very well but aren't very violent, thinking good bone busters when needed, like a mono.

 

[Robert]

I was going to prune out the pissing contest but it proved to be more work then the results were worth. So we are done here