Off-duty cop kills man in bar fight

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It does not matter what he was doing in a bar in my mind. One should NEVER mix alcohol and firearms! Never! It does not matter if you are a LEO or civilian. It does not matter what the law bloody is! This guy obviously missed that part of firearms safety and ethics. The guy was running around slapping behinds! This isnt a football locker room! This guy (regardless of alcohol or not) was not acting like an officer. When you accept that role in society, that is what they pay you for. You are to be the shining palladin of society,not hanging out in bars, slapping people's behinds.

Baily, I read the article. Im saying that people should really understand what they are to represent 24 hours a day when they take on the mantle of an officer. LEOs are not above the law and as of late, they have been taken off the hook a little more than I am willing (and you all should be too) to stomach. The guy was involved in a bar fight, meaning, even if it was not his fault, he was doing SOMETHING to make someone mad. Not too gentlemanly now is it? Do I want an officer to "have an arguement" with me, then waste me in a bar? No! Who wants that? Cops are getting too frisky with thier power and need to be reminded of what thier roles in society are. "I carry a gun, therefore, dont make me mad or I will bring down the fury of god's own thunder" seems to be a recurring theme on this forum and in armed society in general. Lets go back to "I'm armed, I will defend myself, but I have the self control not to kill one arbitrarily". The cop obviously did something in the arguement or did something before said arguement to make the folks mad enough to lash out against him. Did he id himself as an officer before deploying lethal force? Lets get things straight. I do agree I'm flying off the handle and need a chill pill though :(. But, it seems a little fishy for a cop to open up in a bar and no details, such as BAC levels or official statements, being released to the public. Seems to happen alot with cases involving cops (tin foil hat off).
 
if we edited the story so there was no mention of the shooter being a cop some of the same usual suspects, assuming the even read the articles, would be screaming how the shooter was being unfairly prosecuted and some would be chest beating about how they woulda handled the mob even more harshly. it does make a feller laugh though
 
maybe

you should read it again you seemed yo have missed a few if not most of the facts somehow


and please leave the hat on it might help and it can't hurt
 
if we edited the story so there was no mention of the shooter being a cop some of the same usual suspects, assuming the even read the articles, would be screaming how the shooter was being unfairly prosecuted and some would be chest beating about how they woulda handled the mob even more harshly. it does make a feller laugh though
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Agreed. But it cuts both ways. You would also see other "usual suspects" suggesting he shouldn't have been there, that he was looking for a fight, etc.

The presence or absence of a badge changes the way a lot of people see a situation, based on their own biases.
 
I'm not the biggest fan of the coercively-funded monopoly police trade. I'm seldom willing to give the badged civilian the benefit of the doubt.

We don't nearly have all the facts (or any facts) pinned down yet. But I want to make some clarifications.

1. You are never under any obligation to take on three unarmed people with your fists. A willingness to do so when it is not absolutely necessary is not "manly." It is stupid. Kind of like the idea of "we made a mistake going in, but it's not a mistake to stay there, because we've got to 'stay the course.'" It's stupid, prideful saving of face, and the price of saving face is people getting killed, in both cases.

2. If the cop smacked a woman on the rear that he thought was his friend and apologized when he found out it wasn't, it was stupid horseplay. If he knew it wasn't his sister/girlfriend, it was really stupid. Neither case merits a beat-down by three men.

If he was blindsided with a chair, that's more than enough to merit a response with potentially lethal force.

-Sans Authoritas
 
The presence or absence of a badge changes the way a lot of people see a situation, based on their own biases.
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It also often changes the way an investigation is done, and how things are reported. It just muddies everything up to the point where it is unlikely anyone outside of those directly involved will ever know what really happened with any certainty.
 
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2008/03/11/news/top_stories/1_20_213_10_08.txt

TEMECULA -- The off-duty Costa Mesa police officer who shot and killed a Temecula man Saturday night in Old Town was hit from behind, possibly with a chair, then attacked by several men before he fired the fatal shots, investigators said Tuesday.

Those details come from independent witnesses who were not with either the officer or the man who was killed and corroborate statements given to investigators by the off-duty officer, said Sgt. Dennis Gutierrez, spokesman for the Riverside County Sheriff's Department.

Shaun Vilan, 30, was shot in the chest and arm, according to an autopsy conducted Monday.

Also shot was Taylor Willis, 22, of Temecula who was hit in the thigh, Gutierrez said.

The officer -- who has not been identified by authorities -- had not attended the Temecula Spring Rod Run, but went to The Bank of Mexican Food to eat, Gutierrez said.

Witnesses and the officer say he was sitting in a chair near Old Town Front and Main streets when he was attacked, the sergeant said. The attack was unprovoked, according to the investigation, and may have spilled over from an earlier encounter between the two sides inside an Old Town restaurant.

Witnesses told investigators that the officer identified himself as an off-duty officer and asked his attackers to stop, but the men continued to beat him, Gutierrez said.

It was then that he pulled out his off-duty weapon and fired five shots, hitting Vilan and Willis, the sergeant said.
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Interesting what witnesses saw/heard compared to the story given by the group of the man killed .


.
 
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/homepage/abox/article_1997168.php

Off-duty Costa Mesa officer jumped from behind, police say
Investigation continues into Temecula shooting that left one dead, one wounded.
By KIMBERLY EDDS and JON CASSIDY
The Orange County Register
Comments 42 | Recommend 7

An off-duty Costa Mesa police officer was jumped from behind and beaten by a crowd of men outside a Mexican restaurant in Old Town Temecula before pulling his gun and opening fire Saturday, the Riverside County Sheriff's Department said Tuesday.

The officer killed one of his attackers and injured another. The beating left the officer with at least six staples in the back of his head.

The officer, whose name has not been released, had been eating with a group of family and friends at the Bank of Mexican Food restaurant in the heart of Old Town Temecula on Saturday evening, when he felt ill and stepped outside for some fresh air, said Riverside County sheriff's spokesman Jerry Franchville.

The officer was sitting outside the restaurant about 7:15 p.m. when he was suddenly hit from behind with a heavy object, possibly a chair, Franchville said. The blow knocked the officer to the ground, temporarily dazing him.

Bleeding from the head and blood running into his eyes, the officer realized he was being attacked by four or five men, Franchville said. The officer identified himself as a police officer and begged for the men to stop beating him.

Several witnesses not connected to the officer or his attackers heard the officer identify himself as a police officer, and some even saw him flash his badge, Franchville said.

Despite the officer's cries for the attack to stop, the beating continued, Franchville said. The officer pulled out his gun and fired five times, hitting Shaun Adam Vilan twice in the chest and arm, and 22-year-old Taylor Willis twice in the thigh.

Vilan, who was on parole for assault with a deadly weapon, later died at a local hospital. Willis remained hospitalized Tuesday evening.

The attack was unprovoked, Franchville said.

Vilan and Willis had spent the day at Temecula Rod Run, an annual three-day custom hot-rod and car show that draws tens of thousands. Vilan's 7-year-old son, who went to the car show with his father, witnessed the attack on the officer and the shooting of his father. The officer did not attend the event.

It is unclear whether the men involved in the melee were intoxicated.

Authorities have not released the identity of the officer, citing protection under the Peace Officer's Bill of Rights. Police officers are allowed, under California law, to carry guns while off-duty.

Investigators from the Riverside County Sheriff's Department are investigating the shooting. The results of their investigation will be handed over to Riverside County prosecutors to determine whether the officer, a 10-year veteran of the Costa Mesa Police Department, should face criminal charges in the shooting.

The officer, who is recovering at home from severe head wounds, is on paid administrative leave, said Sgt. Bryan Glass of the Costa Mesa Police Department.

Vilan, who was on parole after spending six years in state prison for two assaults, had a lengthy history of ganging up on people and attacking them, according to court records. His convictions included two unprovoked assaults in 1996 and 1998, which involve Vilan smashing two people in the face with beer bottles.

In a 1996 attack, Vilan smashed a man in the face with a beer bottle, and continued to hold the broken bottle over his victim's face until the man's brother hit Vilan over the head with a wrench.

In the 1998 incident, Vilan, who was on bail at the time, approached a guest at a birthday party and sniffed him, saying, "You smell like white trash." The two men squared off, but before any punches could be thrown, Vilan smashed a beer bottle in the face of the man who stepped between them, court records show.

An October 2001 opinion by Court of Appeal, 4th Appellate District, also show a series of allged assaults for which Vilan was never charged, including a birthday party in August 1996 when Vilan and a friend were said to have brutally beat a guest who tried to stop them from ransacking the bedroom of the host's father, punching him and stomping on his head with steel-toed boots.

A month later, Vilan and two other men were accused of jumping the brother of one of Vilan's previous victims, punching him, knocking him to the ground and kicking him, court records show.

In November 1997, according to court accounts, Vilan and two other men attacked a man eating in his car with his girlfriend outside a fast-food restaurant, punching and kicking him.

Two months later, Vilan punched a man in the face three times just for looking at him, according to court records.

"None of the victims did any provoking – Vilan and his cohorts did all the provoking. All the victims were outnumbered. All the encounters featured 'low blows,' i.e., unfair fighting by Vilan and his cohorts," wrote Manuel A. Ramirez, presiding justice of the California Court of Appeal, 4rth Appellate District, in the October 2001 opinion rejecting Vilan's appeal that evidence admitted in his two trials was improperly admitted.

Vilan worked as a day trader after being released from prison 2.5 years ago.

Family and friends held a candlelight vigil in Old Town Temecula on Tuesday night to remember Vilan.

Contact the writer: 714-796-7829 or [email protected]
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a real loss to society and his family.
reminds me of what the head of the military tribunal in el salavador said after sending a guy to the wall for dui

"i feel sorry for his wife and kids but they are better off without him"

classic example of the "he was a good boy " syndrome from his family and friends.
 
i knew a guy in high school that attacked a cop and didn't stop even after the guy identified himself.... son of a gun he got shot too its a conspiracy i tell you! and they are all powerful cause randy lived and when he sobered up and got outa the hospital apologized to the cop.they must rubber hosed him to get him to do that. damndest thing though they let him slide on the assault on the officer charge.figured he's paid the price already. they were correct he became a model citizen
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This kind of rhetoric doesn't help from the other side, so why perpetuate it from your side?
 
Vilan, who was on parole after spending six years in state prison for two assaults, had a lengthy history of ganging up on people and attacking them, according to court records. His convictions included two unprovoked assaults in 1996 and 1998, which involve Vilan smashing two people in the face with beer bottles.

In a 1996 attack, Vilan smashed a man in the face with a beer bottle, and continued to hold the broken bottle over his victim's face until the man's brother hit Vilan over the head with a wrench.

In the 1998 incident, Vilan, who was on bail at the time, approached a guest at a birthday party and sniffed him, saying, "You smell like white trash." The two men squared off, but before any punches could be thrown, Vilan smashed a beer bottle in the face of the man who stepped between them, court records show.

An October 2001 opinion by Court of Appeal, 4th Appellate District, also show a series of allged assaults for which Vilan was never charged, including a birthday party in August 1996 when Vilan and a friend were said to have brutally beat a guest who tried to stop them from ransacking the bedroom of the host's father, punching him and stomping on his head with steel-toed boots.

A month later, Vilan and two other men were accused of jumping the brother of one of Vilan's previous victims, punching him, knocking him to the ground and kicking him, court records show.

In November 1997, according to court accounts, Vilan and two other men attacked a man eating in his car with his girlfriend outside a fast-food restaurant, punching and kicking him.

Two months later, Vilan punched a man in the face three times just for looking at him, according to court records.

"None of the victims did any provoking – Vilan and his cohorts did all the provoking. All the victims were outnumbered. All the encounters featured 'low blows,' i.e., unfair fighting by Vilan and his cohorts," wrote Manuel A. Ramirez, presiding justice of the California Court of Appeal, 4rth Appellate District, in the October 2001 opinion rejecting Vilan's appeal that evidence admitted in his two trials was improperly admitted.
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What are the important facts from all of this?

Criminals don't need guns.

Criminals will attack in groups.

Criminals will attack people for getting in their way.

Criminals use whatever weapon they can get their hands on.

Criminals can only be stopped through use of force (sometimes even the threat is not enough).

And, apparantly from this story: A gun can equalize a fight against multiple opponents.

Also, well done officer: 5 shots, 4 hit his attackers.

80% hit rate? FAR above the average AND this was done while bloody on the ground (if the witnesses are correct).
 
Seems like the last article sweeps away the initial act that started the ball rolling. The officer allegedly slapped a female companion or wife on the backside.

Before that, everyone in that restaurant, including the apparently rabid and psychotic Mr. Vilan, were minding their own business and having a good time.

Just because someone has done time in prison doesn't make them a bad apple. And, just because someone is wearing a badge doesn't make them a good apple.

Don't start none, and there won't be none.
 
Vilan just needed shooting. End of story. I've known men like him and most are dead or in the joint.

That's fine with me.

Biker
 
Just because someone has done time in prison doesn't make them a bad apple. And, just because someone is wearing a badge doesn't make them a good apple.
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Assuming Vilan's record and prior deeds are accurately reported, I doubt that he was anything other than a bad apple.

As for the officer's alleged action, you cannot engage in deadly force against someone for that kind of conduct, and having a couple people pile on quickly becomes deadly force. A person may commit a truly stupid act, but that person is entitled to self-defense if your response is unreasonable.
 
I understand what constitutes deadly force, and I understand the idea of sudden escalation of force.

We can wade all day in the murky whaters of "if, then," legally speaking.

Whether Vilan needed killing or not, I couldn't say. I've known people who needed killing too. Same story. They're either in the ground or behind bars. All I have to go on here are the details in the paper.

But, if you carry, and you don't want to shoot someone unless you have to, there's a good set of lessons to be learned here:

Keep your hands to yourself and mind your manners, or you could wind up with some mean sonofabuck stomping your head off with 4 of his dinner guests unless you have a firearm to scrape them off of you. Even then, you may not get lucky like this guy and come away with a couple of dead guys that everyone is ready to hate, and a few bruises and cuts.
If you can't hold your liquor, and you're a cad, don't drink in public because you may mess with the wrong guy(s).
 
Vilan just needed shooting. End of story. I've known men like him and most are dead or in the joint.

That's fine with me.

Biker
the unfair part is its often some nice guy minding his own buisness that has to do the dirty deed and his life changes forever.

and whats with all this 4 on 1 nonsense anymore? that was unacceptable when i was coming up. heck i'm a dainty lil thing and never hada get a group to hunt someone. course i did get bmy head handed to me once or twice maybe 3 times but thats the price of the ride. that 4 on 1 stuff will get you shot
 
Two drunks get in a fight
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That's funny , I didn't read anything about TWO drunks fighting , but I did read about someone eating with family/friends getting attacked .

The officer, whose name has not been released, had been eating with a group of family and friends at the Bank of Mexican Food restaurant
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This entire thread is great, but lacking for this board.

From the beginning we had the usual suspects, with very few details, willing to hang this officer from the rafters. Then we hear what actually happened from reputable, and uninvolved witnesses and now everything is all crimson and clover. How about each and every one of you who said this officer screwed up, without any facts in hand, publicly apologize in this tread?

What saddens me most in this thread is that we don't know what type of weapon this officer was carrying, or in what caliber.

As for the "victim" and his group of loser family and friends....

BAAWWWWHAAAHHAAAHHAAAA. Too bad the officer didn't plant more of you morons. Typical lowlifes. "Oh, they treated us badly". "The officer just gunned my poor mijo down without provocation".
 
I'm betting he is.

Vilan's female co-defendant poured a beer over the victim's mother when she came outside and hit the victim over the head with a can of beer, which exploded on contact
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I'm betting she's the one that got patted on the ass.
 
How about each and every one of you who said this officer screwed up, without any facts in hand, publicly apologize in this tread?

=====================================

I agree 100%.
 
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