Off Hand Shooting

[AGS]

I'm curious to know what is considered good shooting off hand using basic hunting rifles in field conditions

Any centerfire caliber rifle at 75 to 100 yds. using a scope or open sites whatever you feel that you shoot best with at that range.Using 5 shot groups. elapsed time not being a factor.

What kind of group?

I'm new to centerfire rifles and plan to do some deer hunting this fall. I seem to be able to get 2 out of 5 shots in a 2 inch group within a couple of inches of dead center with the rest going up to about 5 inches from my aim point for an 8 inch group.I know I need more practice.

 

[taliv]

that's just about exactly the sort of group i'd expect to witness in person.
now, your internet forum groups are going to be MUCH tighter, of course.

edit: by way of comparison, the x-ring on a 200 yrd nra high-power target is 3" in diameter.

 

[rockstar.esq]

So here's what I'd consider to be the most practical method for determining how well you're doing. First determine what you are intending to shoot. If we're talking about deer, they have about a 18" target area which if hit, will result in a humane kill. Taking the deer as your intended target, being able to get five shots into less an area half that diameter at your maximum intended range will help greatly in overcoming jitters and other realities. So that being the case, your group of 5" at 100yds would be fine shooting for a deer sized animal provided your group centers on point of aim. If not, you should adjust your sights accordingly. Now if you're talking about prarie dogs, the target area is going to hover around two inches for a humane kill. Although they are taller, their chest width is quite small. To this end, rifles for this type of hunting generally shoot into 1/2" at 100yds and rely on bipods or a rest to wring this sort of accuracy out of the gun and shooter. Should your desire be the target and just your improvement to that end, I'd have to say that although I've had occasion to shoot better groups offhand, I'm not consistent enough to make any sort of "claim" about what is good and what isn't. Although accuracy breeds confidence, a 4-5 MOA lever action kills tons of deer every year because the shooters kept the range reasonable and the results speak for themselves. You might consider trying a proper sitting and kneeling position. Jeff Cooper wrote "The Art of the Rifle" and he does a good job illustrating the finer points. My group sizes in the kneeling are at a minimum 30% smaller than offhand and my sitting shrink by at least 50% (again compared to offhand). Although there are many bench adherents on this forum, my best groups have been from the bipod assisted prone and from there my groups get as good as I can do. (roughly a 90-95% improvement over the offhand). Cooper maintains that the sling does no good to the unsupported left arm (for a right handed shooter) however my buddy Timbokhan frequently uses one to great effect. I've found that Cooper's sentiment is spot on with my shooting. As an aside, the sling when used properly feels awkward and uncomfortable. Simply put, if you aren't uncomfortable at first it probably isn't tight enough or in the right position.

 

[Art Eatman]

In the late 1800s, Harry Pope was known as "the human bench rest" because there was no apparent wiggle or waver as he aimed at a target in the offhand stance. Not everybody can do that.

The thing to remember is that there is a time lag of (average human) 0.2 seconds between the time your brain says, "Do it!" and your trigger finger does it. (Or your foot on the brake pedal, for that matter.)

So: You take basic aim, breathe in and let some out and then hold it--and as the sights are almost on the target, try to send the message to your trigger finger so that the gun goes bang as the sights achieve the perfect alignment.

That's why iron-sighted .22s are so useful. It takes lots of practice, and .22 ammo is cheap. Later add a scope, and then go to centerfire.

Art

 

[ocabj]

Use the sling. Hunting isn't highpower competition, so there's no reason you shouldn't use one in offhand. There are various methods to implement a 'hasty' sling to get more stability in the offhand position.

To shoot offhand, you must accept your wobble. There are ways to minimize it, but you're going to wobble no matter what. The next step is to learn how to half pull the trigger. You need to learn how to hold just enough pressure on your trigger before you break the sear and drop the hammer. The reason being is that pulling the trigger to fire while shooting offhand should be a 'surprise'. Once your sight post or crosshairs are at the point of aim you want for the shot, you should fire. Think of it as timing your shot to coincide with the front sight or the crosshairs.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Finn Aagard, a man with a reputation for both truthfulness and understatement, used to say he could shoot 12" groups at 100 yards offhand. I suspect there are few men who can beat that with a sporting rifle. I have to say I rarely see anyone shooting offhand, unsupported at the range. The exceptions are rifle competitors, not hunters.

I "invented" a shooting game of my own. I take standard NRA 50-foot 11-bull targets and 50 rounds of .22s and put 5 rounds into each bull (or 10 if I'm feeling cheap and want to keep the bottom half for tomorrow.) Using my M82 Kimber, I work the bolt from the shoulder, not lowering the rifle until the magazine is empty. I have learned an awful lot about offhand shooting a sporter-weight rifle from that game.

I also used to shoot metallic silhouette with the same rifle (silhouette is shot entirely from the standing, unsupported position) -- and have cleaned the ram targets (10 targets at 100 yards) with that rifle more than once. Those targets are just about the size of a squirrel.

 

[AH-1]

funny it all my years of deer hunting I have never killed one shooting off a bench and damn they didn't have orange dots on the heart shot .
there is a 10 inch kill zone on a deer.sounds like your doing very well shooting off hand.
thanks giving morning a few years back.win 375 w/ williams FP reciever sight.
my hunting bud using a 1903 springfield.

 

[AGS]

Thanks for all the helpful replies. Some good suggestion that I'll try out. It's a great help to have this kind of input from experienced hunters.

The last time I did any amount of shooting with a centerfire rifle was in basic training in 1959. You could say I'm rusty. I'm using the sling and have been adjusting it to get it just right ,it seems to help

 

[Onmilo]

I may have that Finn Aagard article. I believe it is in a Gun Digest and I believe he said he could shoot into a one foot circle at three hundred yards or meters.
On a good day when the wind is right, and using the right rifle, I can still shoot into 6-8 inches at two hundred meters standing flatfooted and slung tight.

You can feel competant if you can learn to consistantly snap shoot into a ten inch circle at one hundred meters.

 

[rbernie]

You can feel competant if you can learn to consistantly snap shoot into a ten inch circle at one hundred meters.

On my good days, I can do this. After a long, hot day hiking and stalking, I'm just too tired and I get the trembles...

 

[Bwana John]

If we're talking about deer, they have about a 18" target area which if hit, will result in a humane kill.

NO, for a humane kill you DO NOT have a 18" diameter target!!!

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I may have that Finn Aagard article. I believe it is in a Gun Digest and I believe he said he could shoot into a one foot circle at three hundred yards or meters.

From a rest or solid sitting position. Offhand, he limited himself to 100 yards.

 

[WayneConrad]

That's fine shooting as far as I'm concerned.

Col. Cooper makes a distinction between the kind of off-hand shooting where you take all the time you want, and the kind where you are in a heck of a hurry.

For the kind where you take all the time you want, he points out that you probably have time to take a sitting or prone position, except for those circumstances, such as tall grass, where terrain requires standing.

For that reason, he writes that most offhand shots in the field will be made in a heck of a hurry -- holy cow, where did that running deer come from! -- and should be practiced that way.

 

[AGS]

I doubt that I'll be taking any shots at running deer , I would shoot at a very slow moving deer.

It sounds to me like I need to do more practicing in the sitting and kneeling position.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Col. Cooper makes a distinction between the kind of off-hand shooting where you take all the time you want, and the kind where you are in a heck of a hurry.

He's right. That's why my "game" requires emptying the magazine without taking the rifle from your shoulder. It ingrains working the bolt automatically and shooting without any wasted time.

 

[10-Ring]

My off hand rifle shooting is as good as the last fish I caught Now my results would vary depending on the number & sobriety of witnesses

 

[hps1]

[I take standard NRA 50-foot 11-bull targets and 50 rounds of .22s and put 5 rounds into each bull (or 10 if I'm feeling cheap and want to keep the bottom half for tomorrow.) Using my M82 Kimber, I work the bolt from the shoulder, not lowering the rifle until the magazine is empty. I have learned an awful lot about offhand shooting a sporter-weight rifle from that game./QUOTE]

An excellent exercise; if you want to add one more degree of difficulty, shoot one shot into each bull and then start on #1 bull again instead of 5 shots into one bull. This will improve your ability to acquire the target in a hurry.

Another way to improve your offhand is to dry fire (and call your shots) for 10 minutes every day. You will discover any errors you are making, as they will not be masked by recoil. Only quality practice, whether live or dry fire helps, so stop when you begin to tire or lose concentration, otherwise you will only reinforce bad habits. There is no substitute for trigger time.

Regards,
hps

 

[goon]

Something else I have seen help a lot is to shoot as quickly as you can after you are ready. Don't rush your shots, but don't waste any time about getting your rounds off either.
My dad is VERY fast offhand with his 99 Savage and utterly deadly. I have seen him drop several deer on a full run with it, one over a hundred yards away. I didn't even see the deer and the rifle seemed to crack as soon as it touched his shoulder. Anyway, his advice to me is usually to get the shot off as soon as possible, without rushing.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Something else I have seen help a lot is to shoot as quickly as you can after you are ready.

Amen -- shoot when it looks good. Don't stand there and admire your sight picture.

 

[AGS]

What I'm finding most beneficial now is dry firing at deer. I've probably dry fired 300 to 500 rounds in the last couple of months using snap caps . It has been most beneficial in that I have been able to pick my target points quickly with the deer facing different angles. I do this mostly off hand but in the last couple of days I've been into kneeling and sitting

 

[mattw]

I don't even measure. I'm just happy to keep 'em inside a 12" black at 200 meters.