Official sidearm of the IDF is...?

[jonnyc]

Can't recall where, but I think I have seen info that they are going to license production to a US company.
That would be interesting.

 

[TestPilot]

My guess is that they try to keep their small arms industry up and running, for strategic reasons, and make continuous attmpes to make companies like IMI to be the main supplier for IDF, but the troops were never quite satisfied with what those Israili companies came up with. Every arms producing countries worth mentioning usually has a company of that country producing small arms for that country. Most vigorously pushed arms being the rifles soldiers use. HK for German, FN for Belgium, even UK did it with their troublesome L85 from Royal Ordnance. If IMI even fails to be the main supplier for rifles for IDF, them being the standard issue pistol supplier is even more unlikely, espacially when pistol such as Jericho 941 is not particularly better than what is made out side of Israel. And, juding from the Israel's strategic situation, and nationalistic characteristic, it is highly unlikely they will adopt a standard issue pistol of foreign origin.

Only small arm made by Israili industry that I can think of which was widely embraced was the UZI. Appearantly soldiers were not happy with Galil. Jericho 941 may not be a bad pistol, but if various security, military departments have their own procurement channel and have access to pistols like SIG, Glock, USP, etc. I can easily understand why they would embrace the chaos of all kinds of pistol being mixed, instead of dealing with being forced to use pistols like Jericho 941 or Barak only. To make matters worse, companies like IMI keeps comming up with something not conventional, especially when that unconventional features does not seem to be so helpful.

 

[jonnyc]

"it is highly unlikely they will adopt a standard issue pistol of foreign origin"

They have adopted FNs, Berettas, Sigs, and Glocks.

"Only small arm made by Israili industry that I can think of which was widely embraced was the UZI"

Uzi, Maag58, FAL, Galil.

"Appearantly soldiers were not happy with Galil"

Very few were unhappy, it was a matter of economics.

"To make matters worse, companies like IMI keeps comming up with something not conventional, especially when that unconventional features does not seem to be so helpful."

When you're surrounded by 50 million people who want to kill you, and your industries are competing on world markets, unconventional is good.

 

[TestPilot]

"it is highly unlikely they will adopt a standard issue pistol of foreign origin"

They have adopted FNs, Berettas, Sigs, and Glocks.

As IDF's standard issue pistol?

"Only small arm made by Israili industry that I can think of which was widely embraced was the UZI"

Uzi, Maag58, FAL, Galil.

I mentioned Uzi. Galil? When its pushed out by M16? FAL is not an Israeli design. And, what's a Maag58? If you're talking about FN-MAG, that's not an Israeli design either.

"Appearantly soldiers were not happy with Galil"

Very few were unhappy, it was a matter of economics.

"To make matters worse, companies like IMI keeps comming up with something not conventional, especially when that unconventional features does not seem to be so helpful."

When you're surrounded by 50 million people who want to kill you, and your industries are competing on world markets, unconventional is good.

So, Israelis being surrounded by 50 million people who wants to kill them was not enough for them to support their own rifles? Galil's manufacture cost is significantly higher than an alloy frame M16?

Unconventional is good? Unconventional that helps, or unconventional just for the sake of it?

 

[jonnyc]

1. No Israeli-made pistol has ever been IDF standard issue. Special forces get and use what they want. The only non-SF issue pistols I ever saw in IDF service (for some MPs and some officers) were Beretta 951s and Enfield revolvers. Neither is Israeli-made.

2. "made by Israili industry" - That's your miss-spelled quote. The Uzi, Galil, Maag58, and FAL were all made in Israel...and widely embraced.

3. Priorities. An expensive rifle, even if it's better, will lose-out to an acceptable, cheaper rifle almost every time. That will hold true for most weapon systems.

4. When your advantages are limited, unconventionality is always an option.

I'm done, enjoy.

 

[TestPilot]

1. No Israeli-made pistol has ever been IDF standard issue. Special forces get and use what they want. The only non-SF issue pistols I ever saw in IDF service (for some MPs and some officers) were Beretta 951s and Enfield revolvers. Neither is Israeli-made.

I did acknowlede foreign pistol use in Israel in my first post.
If I use your method, I can argue that SIG SP2022 is U.S. army standard issue, because one of its subdivision adopted it. That would not be so meanignful when discussing "official sidearm of the U.S. army is..." would it?

2. "made by Israili industry" - That's your miss-spelled quote. The Uzi, Galil, Maag58, and FAL were all made in Israel...and widely embraced.

Okay, then let me rephrase it to "made by Israeli industry other than direct copy of FN or other foreign companies" That does not leave so many does it?

3. Priorities. An expensive rifle, even if it's better, will lose-out to an acceptable, cheaper rifle almost every time. That will hold true for most weapon systems.

If Galil is "better" than why are the ones still in use by IDF handed to units like reserve than IDF special forces?

4. When your advantages are limited, unconventionality is always an option.

I'm done, enjoy.

Let's look at Barak for example. It uses humps on the back of the slide as rearsight, like a snub revolver. Unconventional? Yes. But, how does that help? And, if things like that help, why is it not taking over the pistol market like a storm?