Officials in CT stunned by "civil disobedience"

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Congrats to those in CT!
Non violent resistance is often the most effective method of achieving change as well as moderates to your cause. I applaud them! I offer my moral support to them and if anyone knows of any organizations that are fighting this unjust law please link it in this thread. I may not have much to give, but I will be proud to show my support to them.

Mods, please keep this thread open!
 
That's certainly a possibility in some states but many states are passing pro-gun laws to prohibit such restrictions.
The scenario I described plays out AFTER "a registration law passes and legal challenges fail". If the law can be prevented from being passed or going into effect then it's a whole different ballgame.
 
Unfortunately, I can't share Sam1911's optimistic view that the American public will finally grow a pair and initiate widespread civil disobedience.
That window of opportunity opened during the long-ago era of court-ordered forced busing, when white kids were taken out of their neighborhood schools and transported across the county to dangerous, dysfunctional "inner city" schools.
Back then, I was overseas in the military and my mother wrote me, expressing her fear that our outraged friends and neighbors would turn violent over this issue.
I wrote back, assuring her not to worry, because the government would back down, and the kids would soon return to their neighborhood schools. After all, how could they dare to go against public opinion this way?
Later, while home on leave, I looked outside and saw our neighborhood kids waiting in the predawn darkness for their bus. Shaking my head, I turned to my mother and said, "Mom, if they'll take this, they'll take anything!"
If there was ever a time to form an American version of the IRA and buckle down for several generations of unrelenting struggle, that was it!
However, the Powers That Be know us better than we know ourselves. They know that as long as there is food and beer in the fridge and a football game on TV, the average white, middle-class lemming will put up with anything, and I do mean anything!
Same-sex marriage? Allowing illegal aliens to practice law? Late-term abortion? Forty percent out-of-wedlock births? "Knockout Game" and "Wilding" on our city streets and fairgrounds? Vicious killers lounging around on "death row" for forty years? Printing funny money to cover an astronomical, unpayable national debt?
Hey, no problem!
After all, aren't we modern and civilized these days?
And a modern, civilized society can't have yahoos running around with assault weapons, right? What a quaint old-fashioned notion, sorta like kids going to their own neighborhood schools.
Sorry to say it, but we're getting exactly what we deserve. Several generations of us have let this stuff happen, and a lot more is on the way.
Nope, there will be no popular uprising, no matter what new outrages the government dreams up. They have a free hand, unlimited money, media cooperation, patience, and most importantly, a herd of lemmings to rule over.
 
fiddleharp said:
Unfortunately, I can't share Sam1911's optimistic view that the American public will finally grow a pair and initiate widespread civil disobedience.

That window of opportunity opened during the long-ago era of court-ordered forced busing, when white kids were taken out of their neighborhood schools and transported across the county to dangerous, dysfunctional "inner city" schools.

Back then, I was overseas in the military and my mother wrote me, expressing her fear that our outraged friends and neighbors would turn violent over this issue.

I wrote back, assuring her not to worry, because the government would back down, and the kids would soon return to their neighborhood schools. After all, how could they dare to go against public opinion this way?

Later, while home on leave, I looked outside and saw our neighborhood kids waiting in the predawn darkness for their bus. Shaking my head, I turned to my mother and said, "Mom, if they'll take this, they'll take anything!"

If there was ever a time to form an American version of the IRA and buckle down for several generations of unrelenting struggle, that was it!

However, the Powers That Be know us better than we know ourselves. They know that as long as there is food and beer in the fridge and a football game on TV, the average white, middle-class lemming will put up with anything, and I do mean anything!

Same-sex marriage? Allowing illegal aliens to practice law? Late-term abortion? Forty percent out-of-wedlock births? "Knockout Game" and "Wilding" on our city streets and fairgrounds? Vicious killers lounging around on "death row" for forty years? Printing funny money to cover an astronomical, unpayable national debt?

Hey, no problem!

After all, aren't we modern and civilized these days?

And a modern, civilized society can't have yahoos running around with assault weapons, right? What a quaint old-fashioned notion, sorta like kids going to their own neighborhood schools.

Sorry to say it, but we're getting exactly what we deserve. Several generations of us have let this stuff happen, and a lot more is on the way.

Nope, there will be no popular uprising, no matter what new outrages the government dreams up. They have a free hand, unlimited money, media cooperation, patience, and most importantly, a herd of lemmings to rule over.

Added LFs to your Enters ... easier to read now. ;)

I hope that you don't mind, fiddleharp.
 
I'm pointing out the reality of the situation. Gun registration laws have been on the books for decades. They have been challenged in court and upheld. That is how our system works.


Our system also works through civil disobedience. Remember Prohibition? law of the land and all that. What happened when the U.S. Government made criminals out of half the population of the U.S. through stupid law? See how making criminals out of MH users for the last 50 years has worked out?

So, our system has SEVERAL ways in which it "works". And , clearly, ways that (even though represent the law) it doesn't. And those ways are often irrespective of what's legal.

Passing and enforcing laws that violate the Constitution or turn a majority (or a significant minority) into criminals for doing nothing (you suddenly make the beer in my fridge or the gun in my closet illegal), or passing laws that people simply wont respect (55mph limit on highways) is a prescription for disaster. It teaches people to disrespect the law, hate law enforcement, and fosters a whole world of other unlawful things (like international drug cartels or the mafia or the legal production of radar detectors).

What we have now seen in CT is that, somewhere, there really IS a limit to which people will be pushed before they start to absolutely say "NO". I'll let THR decide where the civil disobedience of not registering guns and magazines can lead... on both sides.
 
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^^^^^

This. Just because a stupid law was passed as the law of the land doesn't make it right. That's why we have ways of reversing them.
 
People generally comply with laws for two basic reasons: they agree with the premise of a law and comply with it because they think it is the morally or ethically correct thing to do, or; they believe noncompliance with a law will be detected and punished.

If enough people disagree with a law and believe there is little chance of being detected or punished for violating the law, the system breaks down.
 
fiddleharp, I agree with much of what you said but I don't share your level of pessimism.

In January, 2013 at the height of the scare that AR15's would be outlawed, there were hundreds just in my area that were planning and prepping and had no intention of giving in, for us that was the line in the sand. For many of us gun owners it's already made up in our minds, no registration, no turning them in.

If we can do it peacefully like we have been for the last 14 months, we will. And if all else fails, I think an American resistance group would make the IRA look like the girl scouts. :D (no offense to them)
 
Someone ought to drag out the statistics for the New Jersey assault rifle ban back in the 1980's. You could register AR-15's and M1-A's (for DCM competition), deactivate anythind else and keep it as a non-firing collectors piece and register it, or remove them from the state. Compliance was essentially zero. Best guess is that less than 100 people registered anything, and to think that 10,000's of rifles went out of state is not reasonable. Nowadays they lock folks up in dribs and drabs, usually after an illegal rifle is found after a domestic violence call, etc. They aren't knocking on doors, but they WILL prosecute you if they catch you. What good is a rifle kept in the attic and living in fear that it'll be found one day?


Willie

.
 
Quote:
What good is a rifle kept in the attic and living in fear that it'll be found one day?


Willie
For that day when you WILL need it


If your living in fear of it being found, it probably is the time you will need it.

There's a saying, if it's time to bury them; it's time to dig them up!
 
A distinction needs to be made between mere noncompliance, on the one hand, and civil disobedience, on the other.

If you simply disobey the law, and hope not to get caught, that's not civil disobedience.

In civil disobedience, you "openly and notoriously" disobey, fully expecting to be arrested, and fully prepared to pay the legal consequences. Your goal is to draw attention to the injustice of the situation, sway public opinion, and cause the "powers that be" to finally relent.

For civil disobedience to work, there must be an underlying public sympathy with your position, and a weak governmental resolve to persist with its policies. That's why Gandhi"s campaign in India (against the basically decent British) and Martin Luther King's civil rights campaign in the South ultimately worked.

On the other hand, civil disobedience will not work if there's no public sympathy or if your antagonists are amoral to the point where they will use any means to stifle dissent (like the Nazis or Bolsheviks).

I hate to say this, but I just don't see gun owners going to jail en masse to protest restrictions such as those recently enacted in Connecticut or New York. Nor do they seem to be prepared to pay the large legal expenses that such a campaign would entail.
 
I'm surprised a moderator who represents THR is openly encouraging people to commit a felony...whether you agree with the law or not!
There is no better way to challenge an unconstitutional law than to bring its unconstitutional enforcement to a head. That's how it gets to court, unfortunately, but that's where such law goes to die. Besides, civil disobedience on such a scale works. Look at the gun registry in Canada and at how fast and hard it fell to civil disobedience.

Carry on, Sam1911.

Woody
 
AlaxenderA,

Where are those Nazis and Bolsheviks today? I must say it didn't work out for them like they thought it would.

I hate to say this, but I just don't see gun owners going to jail en masse to protest restrictions such as those recently enacted in Connecticut or New York. Nor do they seem to be prepared to pay the large legal expenses that such a campaign would entail.

And what of the expense to the states? "Equal protection under the law" demands that each and every last one of them must have their day in court. The only way to circumvent that would be the imposition of tyrannical martial law, and just how far do you think a state government would get with that approach? Hurricane Katrina is still fresh in everyone's mind.

The only laws worth obeying are those that help mankind. All others are tyranny.

Woody
 
By not registering the evil black guns you are gambling that you will not get caught with it. I do not foresee door-to-door confiscation but I do see a letter being mailed in a year or so asking if the assault weapon listed on form DPS-3-C you filed when you purchased it thru an FFL is still in state. CT has had a form of unofficial registration in place already.

They'll probably mail this letter every 3 months, or so, to let you know that they know.

If you are involved with LEO in any way, for any reason, in the future I'd bet you are flagged as a possible registration violation. A DV or DD call could allow search and seizure and a felony conviction. Bye-bye right to own. If you have an accident or traffic stop and you are on your way to a place to shoot and you have your unregistered firearm, bye-bye AR15 and hello felony conviction.

This is what the people who chose to be non-compliant have to look forward to. I guess they can keep it hidden and never shoot it until the law is changed or removed but in the mean time he has chosen to be a potential felon. They are aware of this and choose to stand up for their rights. Everyone who faces felony charges for this violation should be represented by the NRA and state pro-gun groups so this can be challenged all the way to the SC. However, those caught in the crossfire are gambling a lot... rights to own, future employment, voting rights, etc.
 
First, discussing civil disobedience isn't a felony. If anything, saying it is and the discussion should stop is attempting to suppress our 1st Amendment Rights.

The internet exists on that foundation - we discuss things freely because we can. When the internet is shut down to repress speech, you definitely see people arranging ways to circumvent it. When hoarding ammo was a thread subject that got shut down, I started one on the subject of who's paying top dollar for ammo? Same discussion, different title. Went on and on for pages.

You can't stop free speech.

It this case it is the possibility of a felon conviction that will prevent you for legally owning guns for the rest of your life and will put a stain on your record that will make it difficult to find work.

There's two thoughts in this quote. First, IF a conviction is actually rendered - small chance - THEN it has to be said - so what? Felons who choose to acquire firearms are arrested every week, usually in the commission of other crimes that reveal them. The conviction didn't really stop anything. That is because criminals don't obey laws.

The only result from the conviction is that the firearm involved will taken away. It has to be found, first, and then, it's assumed it's the only one? As many have pointed out already, you conceal the ones you want to keep. The cops get the ones you don't.

Secondly, in this economy, even felons can get work. I had a job that hired them every day. All they had to do was show up on time, and work. Any decent citizen with good work habits with a felony conviction for possessing a firearm under these conditions may not find a great job, they will still find one. Those who don't understand that obviously are living in a sheltered life.

When it comes down to losing your freedom, many peoples from many cultures have accepted the risk. Let's take a hypothetical person convicted of his civil disobedience and then incarcerated as a "lesson" to the community at large. It costs how much to house one? $50 - 100,000 a year. If said person has no other history of violence, and is considered no further threat to society, he's likely to see minimum security. Even work release - it's how the MO prisons "rehabilitate" drug offenders.

So, the diabetic convict's meds are now free, his meals, too, he has a place to sleep, possibly a day job to take up his time, medical care, and gets to interact with other low violence propensity citizens also incarcerated on other "crimes."

Not much different that a normal day at work. Sounds like active duty in the Armed Forces to me. Been there, done that. Boring.

Whoooo, I'm so scared.

Connecticut doesn't want to have the ongoing tax dollar liability of thousands of offenders, which is why they won't search out and discover them. That alone would cost the government more dollars in staff to compile a list. Who's going to apply for that and be vetted? How? More expense, whether outsourced or additional .gov/state employees.

Once the lists are coming out to hunt down these felons, more cops hired to go get them. That alone becomes an unfunded mandate that the county Sheriffs are already prickly about. Don't tell them they have to do even more work for nothing. They already have a full plate with real criminals. Expect a major backlash exactly like CA and NY. The Sheriff's are about 90% opposed.

From the real perspective of politics, the law as it sits on the books is a massive fail. Already. It's now a lever to use by conservatives to pry office seats open to a balanced election, because voters will have all this painfully explained over and over that their representative blew it. They passed a law impetuously with no regard for the unintended consequences.

Sound like the ACA? Yup.

It's happened before, it will happen again. That is because we keep electing politicians who smell out which way the wind blows on any issue and vote to keep the people happy, rather than represent them on both sides of an issue and act like statesmen to preserve the rights of all.

Frankly, to quote an famous American, you get the Congress you deserve, in CT, they got exactly what they voted in. It doesn't mean they can't learn from their mistakes and mature as citizens. It will mean more of them will get involved.

Net result, go ahead, convict me. Jail me, even. And try to sweep this under the rug so the next election it doesn't come up.

May you live in interesting times.
 
ConstitutionCowboy beat me to it.

Canadians by droves refused to comply with the long gun registry and even held rallies where they burned registration forms. Eventually, the Canadian givernment realized (a) it was unpopular and (b) it never accomplished its theoretical crime fighting goals anyway (which is true of most malum prohibitum laws anyway).

Topic: Officials in CT stunned by "civil disobedience" on assault weapon registration
 
If you think gun registration is okay, just think about this famous quote from Time magazine's "Man/Person of the Year" 1938.

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
- Adolf Hitler, 1935

I think we all know what happened in the end...
 
By not registering you lose the public use of the gun, risk a felony conviction, and the loss of all gun use. These are not things I'm willing to gamble on losing.

Many civil rights arrests are now politicians who bluster and want to get arrested because they think it will appeal to certain constituents. They won't be losing their jobs, and the judges they come before, also politicians, won't sentence them to time.

I can almost guarantee if you are arrested in front of the state capital with an illegal item under the law, you will be deemed a terrorist and you will get time, just to make an example of you. These same politicians who are loose with the law will have no slack for you. Oh, you work? No free lawyer for you.

Having a felony conviction will most certainly have a major impact on your life, not to mention your bank account.

When you finally return to your job, if they even let you in the building, try explaining to your boss it was a civil rights thing.

If you're not happy with the law, try voting out the politicians who passed them or otherwise try and change the law, leave the state, or learn to live with them. For me, going to jail is not an option. I was in lots of jails and courts as part of my former job until I retired, and I have no interest in ever setting foot in either ever again.
 
I think you guys are giving Civil Disobedience way too much credit. The real issue here is that the state passed this stupid law quickly and then never went on to a public campaign to educate gun owners about it. A lot of the newly minted felons are clueless still as to the law they are breaking. Most assumed that a "common sense" law would not make them, a law abiding citizen, into a felon. They are naively wrong.

Since the State already knows i had my guns, already knows where i live, what i drive, what i make, etc. I thought very briefly about not registering. I came to the conclusion that would be foolishly inviting legal hassles down the road.

I think it's going to be much harder for me to prove that the 10/22 i bought 10 years ago and traded to some guy at a show for a Vz24 8 years ago is out of my possession. The question there is where the burden of proof will lie.

But that is all a bit down the road, and unnecessary to speculate on, because those pieces will fall into place gradually...while they use this law to tack on another charge for those arrested for something else.

I dont think there is any chance of a door to door search for weapons, strictly speaking, unless there is a warrant for something else. However, those something-elses will contribute to an "evil" characterization of the AW-noncompliant owners.
 
this is a big game of who will blink first.

when the state starts identifying these "unlawfull" owners..... the blinking will start.
 
Nazi Germany ca. 1938 Gun Registration and Background Checks

Nazi Weapons Act of 1938 (Translated to English)

1. Classified guns for "sporting purposes".

2. All citizens who wished to purchase firearms had to register with the Nazi officials and have a background check.

3. Presumed German citizens were hostile and thereby exempted Nazis from the gun control law.

4. Gave Nazis unrestricted power to decide what kinds of firearms could, or could not be owned by private persons.

5. The types of ammunition that were legal were subject to control by bureaucrats.

6. Juveniles under 18 years could not buy firearms and ammunition.

Sound familiar??
 
Pretty sure New York AR15 owners will be doing the same thing. The State police are not revealing the numbers because they are so low.
 
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