NY Gun Owners Threatening Non-Compliance With New Gun Control Laws

[AlexanderA]

There are two routes to noncompliance: "silent" noncompliance, in which the person simply refuses to register the item and hides it, and civil disobedience, in which the person loudly declares his refusal and invites the authorities to prosecute. Civil disobedience works if there's an undercurrent of popular support for the protester's position, and the act of disobedience sparks wider protests and political action. This is what we saw in the cases of Gandhi and Rosa Parks, for example. On the other hand, "silent" noncompliance, which we see as a reaction to the strict gun laws in Europe, for example, is much more of a realistic problem for the authorites. "Silent" noncompliance, not civil disobedience, is what caused the undoing of Prohibition. But before Prohibition was officially repealed, the country had to endure all sorts of adverse social consequences. We can draw our lessons from these historical precedents.

 

[gym]

Clinton said yesterday or the day before, if you mess with gun owners rights, you will lose your job. That's from a guy from Arkansaw, he may not agree, but he realizes the consequenses.
If a tree falls in the fores, applies here. You should tell anyone who you think would "rat you out", that you sold your gun, if you intend on keeping it.
With no proof to the contrary it would be very hard to get a search warrant. The judge would have to ask the person, if he saw the gun after the ban. Forget about before, and he would need coraberating whitnesses, it's not a 3d world country yet.

 

[anchorman]

prisons are already over crowded, if they stick together that new law will be gone in a hurry..

that's o.k. the private prison industry will build more. they make good money off of keeping people locked up.

 

[razorback2003]

If you can move, I would move. Any state that has tons of gun control regulates other things to death and taxes heavily.

Give it some time, and I predict New York, California, and Illinois to file for bankruptcy protection. The fed govt can't file for bankruptcy but states and local govts can. That is when things will get very interesting.

Starve the NY govt by moving and not giving them your tax money.

 

[45_auto]

Reality Check #1. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

All of your non-registration protests will have exactly the same effect in New York as they did in Connecticut 20 years ago. New York City (controls the state) won't even know they're happening. Connecticut Assault Weapon Registration:

No person shall possess any "assault weapon" unless that person possessed that firearm before October 1, 1993 and received a certificate of possession from the Connecticut State Police prior to July 1994. The commissioner of public safety shall maintain a file of all certificates of transfer at the central office.

No assault weapon may be sold or transferred to any person other than to a licensed gun dealer, or any individual who arranged in advance to relinquish it to a police department or the department of public safety, or by bequest or intestate succession. Any person who obtains title to an assault weapon for which a certificate of possession has been issued by bequest or intestate succession shall, within 90 days of obtaining title, apply to the department of public safety for a certificate of possession, render the weapon inoperable, sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer, or remove the weapon from the state. Any person who moves into the state in lawful possession of an assault weapon shall, within 90 days, either render it permanently inoperable, sell it to a licensed gun dealer, or remove it from the state.

Just like in Connecticut, no one will come looking for your guns, and the laws will have no effect on crime. But the laws will stay on the books and will be available as additional charges to any law enforcement officer who stops you for speeding on the way to the range with your unregistered gun, high cap mag, etc. It's just another small nail in the coffin. I don't see New York outside of the city having the political power to do anything about it.

 

[joeschmoe]

I don't understand all of this...they voted for them nonsense.

Do we have any proof that the people who dislike gun control voted for these politicials?

At least half of New York State's legislature consists of reps from New York City. How is that representative of the state as a whole?

False. I keep hearing this excuse from NY'ers who obviously don't understand how their government works. This must be a talking point on some radio show or something.
Just like the federal government the NY legislature is made of two houses. One is based on districts, the other based on population. The Senate house is controlled by republicans and not based on population. That means rural districts, with millions of gun owners voted for this law. Now they need to vote for new representitives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Legislature

Of course they need to vote the bastards out. How else are they going to change it?

 

[HOOfan_1]

False. I keep hearing this excuse from NY'ers who obviously don't understand how their government works. This must be a talking point on some radio show or something.
Just like the federal government the NY legislature is made of two houses. One is based on districts, the other based on population. The Senate house is controlled by republicans and not based on population. That means rural districts, with millions of gun owners voted for this law. Now they need to vote for new representitives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Legislature

Of course they need to vote the bastards out. How else are they going to change it?

According to their website,

63 Senate districts..something like 26 are from New York City..then you have Long Island and the population centers around New York City, but not in it

http://www.latfor.state.ny.us/maps/?sec=2012s

Seems pretty skewed to me...

 

[pseudonymity]

False. I keep hearing this excuse from NY'ers who obviously don't understand how their government works. This must be a talking point on some radio show or something.
Just like the federal government the NY legislature is made of two houses. One is based on districts, the other based on population.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Legislature

Actually, I think we are quite educated on how our representatives are apportioned. From the state Constitution, Article III:

§2. The senate shall consist of fifty members, except as hereinafter provided. The senators elected in the year one thousand eight hundred and ninety-five shall hold their offices for three years, and their successors shall be chosen for two years. The assembly shall consist of one hundred and fifty members.

§4. Except as herein otherwise provided, the federal census taken in the year nineteen hundred thirty and each federal census taken decennially thereafter shall be controlling as to the number of inhabitants in the state or any part thereof for the purposes of the apportionment of members of assembly and readjustment or alteration of senate and assembly districts next occurring, in so far as such census and the tabulation thereof purport to give the information necessary therefor.

Maps of districts based on 2010 census data

Just a quick glance at the district maps for the NY legislature will show you where NYC is located - the assembly map in PDF format is actually published as separate documents because the size of the lines depicting upstate districts are actually larger then entire NYC assembly districts.

It is definitely about population.

 

[pseudonymity]

The problem is that they know this. So rather then send you "up the river" they would settle for a fine - and a felony conviction that would mean you could never, ever legally possess a firearm or ammunition for the rest of your life.

Although that is a terrible prospect, that is not my worst concern. If you get on the state database of "assault weapon" holders, how do you think any deliberate LE contact with you is going to occur? When SWAT teams regularly do no-knock entries at 3am for minor drug offenses, what do you think they would do if they knew I had a half dozen "assault weapons" registered?

There will be blood of innocent victims flowing in the streets as a result of this law, but it will not be police or children in school - it will be the families of assault weapon owners that registered as the law requires.

 

[joeschmoe]

At least half of New York State's legislature consists of reps from New York City. How is that representative of the state as a whole

According to their website,

63 Senate districts..something like 26 are from New York City..then you have Long Island and the population centers around New York City, but not in it

http://www.latfor.state.ny.us/maps/?sec=2012s

Seems pretty skewed to me...

Do you see where you contradict yourself there?

The MAJORITY of the senate is NOT NYC, as you claim.

 

[Skribs]

Maybe not, but the map showing the majority of NY as red doesn't factor in how many tiny blue districts there are, and the fact that each district, no matter the physical size, gets the same amount of senators.

I'm glad I don't live in New York. The purpose of the senate (at least in the US) is to present a non-population-based government representation system. By making the senate based on population indirectly (by basing it on districts that are based on population) they essentially make it so both the house and senate are population-based. That gives extra power to the high population centers.

 

[joeschmoe]

Actually, I think we are quite educated on how our representatives are apportioned. From the state Constitution, Article III:

Hoofan is not

Just a quick glance at the district maps for the NY legislature will show you where NYC is located - the assembly map in PDF format is actually published as separate documents because the size of the lines depicting upstate districts are actually larger then entire NYC assembly districts.

It is definitely about population.

I explain this again for you. The SENATE, is not based on population, and is NOT controlled by NYC. That is the statement I was correcting. The myth that keeps being spread by talk radio is this is somehow all NYC's fault and the rest of the state has no power. False.
That is exactly why there are two houses, one by districts, one by population. The system works as it should.
The rural district senators could have easily defeated this bill, but they voted for it. Both houses slamed dunked this law. Don't blame NYC when the whole state did it. Bi-partisan too.
There are millions of gun owners in NY (including NYC).
If any NY gun owner votes any of these clowns back in, then they deserve the government they get.
Time for new politicians in NY.

 

[Kynoch]

For discussion purposes, how would anyone know if your AR is registered? Will you get a big, red star to put on the stock? Do you also think that anyone at the range would rat you out? I'd guess now would be the time to not show off your collection to your new neighbors but I'm guessing not many here do anyways. So, how would one be turned in for having an unregistered gun?? If your nosy, anti-gun neighbor asks if you registered it you'd tell her "of course, did you register yours?". Will they require ranges to see proof of registration to shoot there? Any thoughts on proof of registration?

Excellent point. My AR has been banned here since 1989. So have mags exceeding 10 rounds. I registered my AR so therefore I can "legally" own it.

Since 1989 I have taken it to several ranges with varying sized mags and I have never been questioned. They would have to read the roll-stamp on the receiver to even be aware that it is banned by model number.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I am a fan of the Mocha Frappuchino.

Now yer talkin, same here! For coffee, I'll just make my own, usually Tully's Italian Roast or GM Sumatran Reserve, but those Mocha Fraps are the cat's ass when I feel like Starbucks.

I seem to remember when California enacted their AWB, they had a certain amount of time to register them. At the due date, 20K of 300K had been registered. Near total non-compliance. I was very proud of Californians at the time. The result was on the order of "I think we need to revisit that law." Don't remember the eventual outcome, but since Cal is number one on Brady, we must've gave in. Haven't read all the replies, so if it was brought up before, sorry.

 

[Skribs]

I explain this again for you. The SENATE, is not based on population, and is NOT controlled by NYC. That is the statement I was correcting. The myth that keeps being spread by talk radio is this is somehow all NYC's fault and the rest of the state has no power. False.
That is exactly why there are two houses, one by districts, one by population. The system works as it should.

The senate is based on districts. The districts are based on population, with the smallest (read: most numerous) districts occuring near high population centers. Therefore, the senate is also based on population.

 

[joeschmoe]

Are they threatening to vote the bastards out yet?

So that's a "No"?

NY gun owners will keep voting for the same gun grabbers and then whine about bloomberg/NYC.
Somehow contacting these state reps and working to remove them is beyond possible, but civil disobence and even armed revolt are the first things to consider.

Any you expect positive results without changing politicians first?

 

[joeschmoe]

The senate is based on districts. The districts are based on population, with the smallest (read: most numerous) districts occuring near high population centers. Therefore, the senate is also based on population.

The state senate is NOT CONTROLLED BY NYC!!!

The rural, not nyc, senators alone could have killed this bill. They voted for it.

It's not just NYC or Dem's. This was state wide and bi partisan.

 

[HOOfan_1]

I didn't say majority, I said "at least half".

Actually, it was about 41%. But then you add long island and the NYC suburbs and you have over half.

If it has nothing to do with population, please explain why tiny little NYC has so many districts...face it , you are wrong

 

[pseudonymity]

Hoofan is not

I explain this again for you. The SENATE, is not based on population, and is NOT controlled by NYC. That is the statement I was correcting. The myth that keeps being spread by talk radio is this is somehow all NYC's fault and the rest of the state has no power. False.
That is exactly why there are two houses, one by districts, one by population. The system works as it should.
The rural district senators could have easily defeated this bill, but they voted for it. Both houses slamed dunked this law. Don't blame NYC when the whole state did it. Bi-partisan too.
There are millions of gun owners in NY (including NYC).
If any NY gun owner votes any of these clowns back in, then they deserve the government they get.
Time for new politicians in NY.

Where are you getting this information? Both the Senate and Assembly in NY are based on population - there is no Senate district that is based on a set geographic size.

Take a look at this map. What I would consider upstate is north of district 39 or so. There were some upstate districts that voted for the gun control legislation - 41 in Duchess county, 44/46 in the Albany capital area, 53 including Syracuse, and 60/63 in the Buffalo area. All the rest of that map voted against the new gun control laws. You want to look at districts 36 and 45 and tell me this is not about upstate/downstate and population?

 

[HOOfan_1]

Sure some non-NYC districts voted for it, but to say that without the huge number of NYC reps, that the bill was a slam dunk, is ludicrous. It isn't that hard to look at the maps and see NYC is a huge influence....

 

[Yelovitz_503]

Go figure, the American people aren't so asleep that they'll follow any unconstitutional law thrown in their faces. Good for them!

I can tell you with 100% certainty that I will be doing the same thing if/when this happens in Oregon. I'm glad that LEOs are seeing this for what it is and refusing to enforce it... although DHS is exactly the group with an abundance of funding and nothing better to do than come enforce something like this.

I really don't ever want to see the day when our military and LEOs are ordered to turn against the American people. It would be a BAD time for everybody.

I'm glad that people are still awake enough to recognize what's happening, the real question is do we have what it takes to do whatever is necessary to preserve this country we all love, but seem to have taken for granted?

 

[joeschmoe]

At least half of New York State's legislature consists of reps from New York City. How is that representative of the state as a whole?

:banghead::banghead::banghead:


False. No more moving goal posts or strawman arguments.

 

[Skribs]

What HOOfan said:

Actually, it was about 41%. But then you add long island and the NYC suburbs and you have over half.

If it has nothing to do with population, please explain why tiny little NYC has so many districts...face it , you are wrong

Joeshcmoe, you're focusing on that one claim of >50%, which is slightly high, and ignoring the bigger picture that it IS population based, and a significant amount of the districts cover a small sliver of the geographical area. The point is, even though the senate should represent a wide range of locations, the biggest concentration is near the cities.

 

[gc70]

Offer New York City statehood and free the rest of New York from the City's stranglehold.

 

[HOOfan_1]

I admitted I said at least half...and I admitted it was only 41%. But I also pointed out the suburbs. This is just getting ridiculous.