Oh boy, local PD asking me to sign docs they have no right asking me to sign!

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2C:58-3(f) is the statute that says nothing can be added to the application by the Chief of Police:

http://www.tickethelpline.com/lawyer-attorney-1118159.html

There shall be no conditions or requirements added to the form or content of the application, or required by the licensing authority for the issuance of a permit or identification card, other than those that are specifically set forth in this chapter.
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In my town you submit your applicatin and then it sits for months till you bug them.

Then it sits for another couple of months.

An administrative denial of Due Process and an abridgement of the 2nd Amendment
 
I can't believe there are so many people who are perfectly OK with the idea of a local law enforcement agency that completely disregards state law. Maybe it's just a New Jersey thing and it's common there that laws only apply to the surfs and not to the lords.
 
New York, New Jersey and the Upper North East

IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE LIKE COMMUNIST RUN STATES :cuss:........ THANK GOD I MOVED SOUTH.......... :D
 
you need to look at the big picture. the entire process is aimed at discouraging you. once you HAVE the gun, what difference does it make? That document only grants permission for the Egg Harbor Township Police to ask about you to your employer there. If you really don't like that, sign it anyway and then move. Guess what? Then it REALLY doesn't work anymore.

Let's say you move to Florida and decide to buy a handgun. Great. You pay for it, wait a few days for the mandatory waiting period, and there you go. Egg Harbor couldn't give two rat's excrements about that. They can't do anything about it anyway, you're far outside their jurisdiction.

You should have bigger fish to fry being in college anyways.
 
The standard NJ STS033 form block 12 is for employee information which is required.

As such, it is assumed that your employer may be contacted at some point. however I'm not aware of any NJ supplementary forms outside of the SP66; Mental Health form nor did we ever use any others.

But in some cases your employer may be contacted in person or via phone or other electronic means. Unless some release was included, most will usually only verify employment dates and possibly salary/wage levels.

Kind of curious as to the location requesting this form?

My only thought is they are possibly trying to get any employer responses through means other than a personal contact. As an employer, I would not release any personal information without the applicants knowledge. However, unless the employer was used as one of the three specified references, contact is not mandatory. However contact of the other three in some manner is mandatory and must be verify on a required form included with the application.

Manpower is down across the state and available personnel for applicant requests is taking a back seat. The one great improvement over the years has been to shift the fingerprinting to Morphotrak. The results have been coming back in hours instead of weeks. Unfortunately, the NJSP has reduced personnel in this area through cutback and retirements not filed. Even our own people are waiting for PPP longer than ever. Good luck with the process.
 
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Bovice said:
you need to look at the big picture. the entire process is aimed at discouraging you. once you HAVE the gun, what difference does it make? That document only grants permission for the Egg Harbor Township Police to ask about you to your employer there. If you really don't like that, sign it anyway and then move. Guess what? Then it REALLY doesn't work anymore.

Let's say you move to Florida and decide to buy a handgun. Great. You pay for it, wait a few days for the mandatory waiting period, and there you go. Egg Harbor couldn't give two rat's excrements about that. They can't do anything about it anyway, you're far outside their jurisdiction.

You should have bigger fish to fry being in college anyways.
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Again with this attitude of "it doesn't really affect you, so it doesn't really matter..." I say, "WAKE UP!" These actions by these law enforcement agencies are ILLEGAL, violating state statutes! If everybody just rolls over and says, "Well it doesn't really affect me so it doesn't matter" then guess what.... your apathetic attitude is going to allow the government to continue to infringe upon the rights of the citizen more and more and eventually it IS going to affect you and you will be registering your guns with the government and they will eventually come to take those registered guns from you! Just ask anybody living in Australia right now how that happens. And when they come knocking on your door for your guns you are going to be standing there wondering, "How the hell did this happen? I thought this was America?!?"

I am sure there were probably plenty of folks that told Rosa Parks, "They have us bent over a barrel. There's nothing we can do about it."
 
Downrange, Are you applying for a Firearm Purchaser ID or Permit to Purchase a Handgun or a License to Carry?

New Jersey sounds a lot worse than Illinois, where I live,except for the remote possibility you could get a LTC. If our republican candidate for governor, Bill Brady, wins that could change as well.
 
Carl N. Brown said:
The problem I have with something like this is that some employers might read more than there is there into the fact law enforcement is inquiring about an employee's application to own a handgun.
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Exactly....it could get him fired due to some member of HR thinking his presence will make for a dangerous workplace environment. Very uncool.
 
Exactly....it could get him fired due to some member of HR thinking his presence will make for a dangerous workplace environment. Very uncool.
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That's a blanket assumption and I don't think that would be the case at all IF you have a good established relationship with the people you work with. They'll know your character and it shouldn't bother them in the slightest. If you're constantly threatening people at work with physical harm and giving mean looks and writing harsh emails to everyone in the office, they MIGHT suspect something. But otherwise, you're assuming that everyone is against you and you're the only "beacon of light" in an otherwise dark world. That's just not true. When I started a new job back in May, I never talked about guns to anyone in the office because I didn't want to start any problems. One day the guy in the cube next to mine started talking about a rifle he bought a few days before, and come to find out our entire division at work are gun people.

I don't think I'm rolling over and giving up anything to the government by saying you should just sign the damn paper. As long as I haven't been kept from using the guns I own as I please, I don't care how many stupid papers they have on me in relation to guns. If the day comes that they knock on the door and ask to have them turned over, I'll claim to have sold them all in private sales for some pocket change. If you're good at what you do and can prove to your employer that you're indispensible, they aren't going to fire you because the police asked about your character in connection to a gun purchase.

Bottom line: If you have the gun and the means to use it (ammo, etc.) then it makes NO difference. It's every bit as useful to you as if they had thrown it at you through your window, and told you to keep it.
 
Bottom line: If you have the gun and the means to use it (ammo, etc.) then it makes NO difference. It's every bit as useful to you as if they had thrown it at you through your window, and told you to keep it.
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This isn't about a person getting a gun. It's about holding law enforcement responsible for breaking the law.
 
Sue them, not going to get the gun, but then again, doesn't sound like you would anyway, find a lawyer who is willing to help you and go through the steps.
 
NavyLT said:
Because he is in NEW JERSEY!

You will find, Downr@ange, that many law enforcement agencies in New Jersey violate New Jersey statutes in what they require for handgun licenses.
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Of course being no authority on NJ, I'm confunded, however wouldn't it be open season on the state for obstruction? I cannot believe that the state has not yet been successfully sued over such a blatant infringment....
 
Sue them, not going to get the gun, but then again, doesn't sound like you would anyway, find a lawyer who is willing to help you and go through the steps.
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And what is being sued for? Everyone wants to sue. Good lawyers often cost good money and in such matters, often up front money. The process may take anywhere from a few weeks to a few years.
 
Double Naught doesn't need an attorney.

"It's just a formality, and doesn't apply to you, so go ahead and sign it anyway." That is NOT a hard to detect slippery-slope. GO GET AN ATTORNEY. YOU CAN FIND A FEW IN YOUR INCOME BRACKET ($00.00) IF YOU TRY. Don't go around dumb!! Fight it! For all of us.
 
It's about holding law enforcement responsible for breaking the law.
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There is no violation of law. The state application requires place of employment be listed. Nothing bars anyone from following up on the info. A request for release of personal records is the issue. Either way, the employer will be contacted for employment varification. It is required by the state. (SP 407, Block 7)
 
It's the part where they are violating STATE LAW, and depriving you of your 'rights' (incase you haven't kept up with the supreme court) so there seems to be something actionable, and if the city is forced to timely issue and pay you for the privilege, the great peers and PD chief might get concerned when the money is going to pad your pocket and not theirs.
 
Double Naught doesn't need an attorney.
"It's just a formality, and doesn't apply to you, so go ahead and sign it anyway." That is NOT a hard to detect slippery-slope. GO GET AN ATTORNEY. YOU CAN FIND A FEW IN YOUR INCOME BRACKET ($00.00) IF YOU TRY. Don't go around dumb!! Fight it! For all of us.
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Once again, what are you going to sue for? What law has been violated by making the request?

It's the part where they are violating STATE LAW, and depriving you of your 'rights'
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What state law says this request cannot be made?

You know, the 4473 form has a blank for your social security number. It isn't an illegal request to ask for it. Most folks simply choose to ignore it. End of story.
 
If they deny you, appeal.
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The forces of darkness in NJ are well aware of the fact that denying a permit creates the statutory opportunity to appeal.

Thanks to an NJ supreme court ruling that found it in the interest of society to set aside the time limits stated in the statute, it is also well known that there's no recourse against simply sitting on an application.

The courts in NJ are among the most activist courts I've ever heard of. On the slightest pretense, I have seen them invent whole sections of the law that simply didn't exist in the statutes, and I've also seen them strike out entire section based on their belief that it's good for society.

The civil war (wrongly) settled the question as to whether a state may leave the union. The question as to whether a state may be forcibly ejected remains deliciously open.
 
the 4473 form
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As that is a Federal form, what has that have to do with this topic? The state form requires the employer info and the investigating officer is required to verify the employment. Not an unusual request. Beyond that, we do not require work records unless they directly affect the issuance of the FID.
 
NavyLT said:
I can't believe there are so many people who are perfectly OK with the idea of a local law enforcement agency that completely disregards state law. Maybe it's just a New Jersey thing and it's common there that laws only apply to the surfs and not to the lords.
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Like I've said, it's not a right, certainly not in NJ...However thr is loaded with soft gun owners, Americans who have been thoroughly inculcated with the mentality of needing to rely on the perceived benevolence of an intervening authority figure to authenticate certain behavior as legitimate...
This mentality is widespread in portions of America historically regarded as left of center, Chicago, NYC, ect..
 
As that is a Federal form, what has that have to do with this topic?
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The federal form was given as an example that I figured everyone was familiar with of information being requested, but not required by law. Be it the federal government, the state government, or the local government, they can ask you for all sorts of information and do so quite legally. If you answer, it is voluntary.

If your permit is not issued because you did not provide answers on the voluntary form, then there appears to be a violation of NJ law as noted above.

There shall be no conditions or requirements added to the form or content of the application, or required by the licensing authority for the issuance of a permit or identification card, other than those that are specifically set forth in this chapter.
Click to expand...

So they can ask for the information, not require it, so long as it does not impact the issuance of the permit.
 
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