Oh boy, local PD asking me to sign docs they have no right asking me to sign!
- Thread starter Downr@nge
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I've read stories about and seen local governments do all sorts of things that aren't really supposed to do. A few months ago a federal judge ordered the sheriff a few counties south of here to take a college level course on the constitution and bill of rights.
Edit to add: I would be concerned about what an employer would think about having the police call and ask questions about an employee.
Edit to add: I would be concerned about what an employer would think about having the police call and ask questions about an employee.
Downr@nge
Member
Here is the form:
Sorry for it being crumpled up. As you can see what I did once I saw it.
(I edited out the Chief's name just to be safe)
Sorry for it being crumpled up. As you can see what I did once I saw it.
(I edited out the Chief's name just to be safe)
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Wow. I don't know what to say.
brboyer
Member
Here is the form:
Sorry for it being crumpled up. As you can see what I did once I saw it.
(I edited out the Chief's name just to be safe)
You mean 'Blaze'? Why would you cover that up?
bushmaster1313
Member
They are allowed to ask the name and phone number of your employer.
This is the statutory form.
http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/sts-033.pdf
You do not need to sign anything else, but if you piss off your local Chief your application will be delayed or denied.
When I applied, the local cop "investigating" my application, came to my house, looked around and rang the door bell.
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Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Okay, since you apparently have a much greatly understanding of NJ and federal law, show me the law that says that the cops have no right to make the request. I never suggested that the OP sign anything. I merely stated that the OP was in error in claiming that the cops had no right to request the information.
mbogo
Member
The only forms you are legally required to submit are the NJ State Police forms, SST33 and SP66. You will have to have fingerprints taken. You are not required to fill out any paperwork that asks for employer info or a 'Town/City" form.
Contact the NJSP Firearms Unit and inform them of your municipality's unlawful requirements.
mbogo
Contact the NJSP Firearms Unit and inform them of your municipality's unlawful requirements.
mbogo
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Downr@nge
Member
Mbogo, that is exactly what I plan on doing.
bushmaster1313
Member
Here is SP-66
http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/sp-066.pdf
http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/sp-066.pdf
NavyLCDR
member
Bluehawk said:
Other than willingly and knowingly allow that law enforcement agency to violate state law, and in the process violate individuals' 4th amendment rights. But that is no detrimental effect?
It doesn't violate his 4th Amendment rights since the Fourth Amendment only protects against unreasonable searches and seizures.
The agency could simply go over to wherever an individual works and speak to his employer about the nature of his character but in this case to save time..so it seems..they simply do it an easier way.
This is nothing more than a type of character reference but AGAIN the OP has no employer so the PD will most likely just file the waiver away with his application and it won't be looked at again!
The agency could simply go over to wherever an individual works and speak to his employer about the nature of his character but in this case to save time..so it seems..they simply do it an easier way.
This is nothing more than a type of character reference but AGAIN the OP has no employer so the PD will most likely just file the waiver away with his application and it won't be looked at again!
Tom609
Member
http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/NJSL.pdf
"...No conditions or requirements can be added to the form or content of the application, or required by the licensing authority for the issuance of a Permit to Purchase or FID, other than those that are specifically set forth in the statute."
I'd try to get the state NRA organization (ANJRPC) to take this on. It's a flagrant violation of state law.
See also http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/forms.html#firearms
"...No conditions or requirements can be added to the form or content of the application, or required by the licensing authority for the issuance of a Permit to Purchase or FID, other than those that are specifically set forth in the statute."
I'd try to get the state NRA organization (ANJRPC) to take this on. It's a flagrant violation of state law.
See also http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/forms.html#firearms
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howlnmad
Member
Wow, am I glad my stay in NJ was short and talked my wife into coming back home to Tn with me.
As to those that say "just sign it, it's no big deal", I wonder if the same song would be sung if it was happening to them?
As to those that say "just sign it, it's no big deal", I wonder if the same song would be sung if it was happening to them?
NavyLCDR
member
Bluehawk said:
And are LEO's and LEA's above the state law? The state law prohibiting the activity they are engaging in does not matter?
where exactly does it state they are not allowed to do this?
read what it says in part for an applicant:
A good place to find out if the applicant is a drunkard, alcoholic or drug dependent person would be at his place of employment through the company's drug testing or observation on the job..if they have a policy for that..so no it's not unreasonable to ask for this information when the State of NJ requires it!!!!!
read what it says in part for an applicant:
...etc.
A good place to find out if the applicant is a drunkard, alcoholic or drug dependent person would be at his place of employment through the company's drug testing or observation on the job..if they have a policy for that..so no it's not unreasonable to ask for this information when the State of NJ requires it!!!!!
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General Geoff
Member
See post #42.
"...No conditions or requirements can be added to the form or content of the application, or required by the licensing authority for the issuance of a Permit to Purchase or FID, other than those that are specifically set forth in the statute."
"...No conditions or requirements can be added to the form or content of the application, or required by the licensing authority for the issuance of a Permit to Purchase or FID, other than those that are specifically set forth in the statute."
NavyLCDR
member
I think we should probably give up General Geoff. Someone in our company is perfectly at ease with police doing whatever they want to, and I don't think statute or the Constitution is going to change their attitude.
General Geoff
Member
It is the NJSP's (or whatever issuing authority's) job to do the legwork, with the information provided by the prescribed forms (and only the prescribed forms) as filled out by the applicant; if they can't figure out whether the applicant is a habitual drunkard or illicit drug user with the information from the prescribed forms, then they must issue to the applicant.
Ok. You're not employed, so what difference does it make? It might as well be a voided document. Who are they going to ask about you?
You're getting all wound up over nothing. Do you want your handgun? Do you REALLY have the resources to pay legal expenses?
You're better off to just sign it. It's only valid in NJ anyway, so if you really get your britches in a wad over it and move to another state, it means nothing, since it clearly grants permission to Egg Harbor Police.
And to the person who said "what if they ask YOU to sign?"
I'd sign it. I would much rather be armed than fiddling around in the legal system to lose and have to sign it anyway.
You're getting all wound up over nothing. Do you want your handgun? Do you REALLY have the resources to pay legal expenses?
You're better off to just sign it. It's only valid in NJ anyway, so if you really get your britches in a wad over it and move to another state, it means nothing, since it clearly grants permission to Egg Harbor Police.
And to the person who said "what if they ask YOU to sign?"
I'd sign it. I would much rather be armed than fiddling around in the legal system to lose and have to sign it anyway.
General Geoff
Member
The difference is whether he holds the local police to task, i.e. following the law which they have sworn to uphold.
If a bully comes up to you and says "give me all your money," but you don't have any, do you say "I wish I could but I'm broke," or do you refuse outright? If you acquiesce today, even if you stand to lose nothing, that is tacit submission to their false authority and will come back to bite you later.
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