Oh, those horrible immigrants

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If they would come and work and be productive members of society I wouldn't care, but they spray paint on our walls, steal from us, drive drunk ( and get away with it because they are not citizens ), throw ????ty diapers in our streets, abuse our system, and live like ????ing savages. I've watched my nice town go to ???? in the past 15 years. Come live in my town and tell me they should be able to come here.:fire:
 
What will millions of poor, unemployed, non-english speaking immigrants do to our economy?
What will they do to our government?
What will they do to our nationality?
What kind of strain wil they put on public education, health care, welfare, transportation, and every other type of government service?

Well, in 1905 there was a much bigger proportion of poor, unemployed, non-english speaking immigrants residing in this country. Those immigrants (doubtless including the forebears of many of the anti-immigration posters) made this country the world's economic powerhouse. Of course in 1905 we weren't living in a welfare state. And at least some people put their political efforts into restraining government instead of worrying about poor Mexicans under the bed.
 
If they would come and work and be productive members of society I wouldn't care, but they spray paint on our walls, steal from us, drive drunk ( and get away with it because they are not citizens ), throw ????ty diapers in our streets, abuse our system, and live like ????ing savages.
Boy, am I glad I live up here ... we got white people to do this stuff for us, no need for us to import illegals to draw our public assistance, drive drunk, break into our houses and businesses, throw trash on our roads or tag our overpasses and buildings ... we just get our local riffraff to despoil our city and overwhelm our social services ...

Can it be it was only a hundred years or so ago that the same sorts of things were being said about the Irish ... and the Italians ... and the Poles ... (etc.)?
 
yes, and..

they sought to assimilate. Can you show me some evidence of that in the current equation?

Hmmm...maybe they HAD to assimilate because they did not receive special treatment from political ???????.

In CA, an illegal gets a driver's license, and gets to vote--how did that logic get turned upside down? And what happened to the incentive to do things legally?

The latest proposal by an unnamed Dallas city official (Fantroy) is that the city's "tow the car if involved in an accident and no insurance" should not apply to the "poor" or to "undocumented workers". Same Dallas official, BTW, who was recently indicted for a number of "questionable" acts...

Art's Grammaw was here. Please watch your language.
 
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Boy, am I glad I live up here ... we got white people to do this stuff for us, no need for us to import illegals to draw our public assistance, drive drunk, break into our houses and businesses, throw trash on our roads or tag our overpasses and buildings ... we just get our local riffraff to despoil our city and overwhelm our social services ...

LMAO! Boy, ain't that the truth.....
 
telomerase said:
It isn't the immigrants that give I lived in Dallas for 13 years. The immigrants I knew were all hard-working and honest. Every person who lied to me or stole from me was a "native" (i.e., a second- or third-generation immigrant).

You 'anti-immigration' guys are just desperately trying to find someone weak and helpless to blame for what the powerful are doing to you. You might as well just change the name of this board to "Rebuildtheberlinwall.com"; hating poor working immigrants sure isn't The High Road.

I hope that we are clear on the discussion on what is immigration and legal immigrants, and what is illegal immigration and those illegally entering our country. You see, I have not seen much discussion on THR about people people against immigration, I see most discussions here about ILLEGAL immigration. So I hope this isn't a red-herring thread in response to those to try to confuse some to this issue. ILLEGAL immigration and not acting against it is a harm to citizens. Look to any other nation with some prosperity on how they handle this. Think through this.

I am not sure why you think this is justifiable to defend or try to confuse the issue on. Some others may also confuse it, but it should be clear to any reasonable person, especially those who worked hard to legally immigrate to this great country.
 
longeyes said:
The Constitution requires the President to safeguard our country against invasion.
Would you please list and quote that article, section and paragraph of the Constitution containing this this "requirement?" I have just checked my copy of the Constitution and I see no such thing. Perhaps I have overlooked it.

Then you can explain how Congress or the Supreme Court has ruled or legislated that unorganized and largely unarmed poor folk sneaking over the border is equivalant to a drilled, disciplined and armed body of men taking hostile action against the government and citizens of the United States which includes crossing the national borders.

--Herself
 
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Biker said:
Mkay, I'll pay five bucks for a head of lettuce if it means that my taxes will go down, my hospitals will stay open in lieu of shutting down because of non-payment from illegals, MS-13 will be driven out of the country, and I don't have to listen to loud, ****ed up accordian music late at night.
Fair deal, done.
Biker

Hey Biker - you're in the wrong part of Idaho. Come up to Bonner County, ain't no accordian music here (yet).
 
Boy, am I glad I live up here ... we got white people to do this stuff for us, no need for us to import illegals to draw our public assistance, drive drunk, break into our houses and businesses, throw trash on our roads or tag our overpasses and buildings ... we just get our local riffraff to despoil our city and overwhelm our social services ...

Just wait, you'll get your turn, amigos.
 
Then you can explain how Congress or the Supreme Court has ruled or legislated that unorganized and largely unarmed poor folk sneaking over the border is equivalant to a drilled, disciplined and armed body of men taking hostile action against the government and citizens of the Unisted States which includes crossing the national borders.

Herself, want to tell me where on Sol3 you live? I'm guessing it's proximate to Never-Never Land.
 
Well, in 1905 there was a much bigger proportion of poor, unemployed, non-english speaking immigrants residing in this country. Those immigrants (doubtless including the forebears of many of the anti-immigration posters) made this country the world's economic powerhouse. Of course in 1905 we weren't living in a welfare state. And at least some people put their political efforts into restraining government instead of worrying about poor Mexicans under the bed.
Yes, and we as a nation also screened those coming, sending back those with infectious diseases. Ellis Island and its like were not merely "aid stations" for those who had difficulties in the Atlantic crossing. No so with todays illegal alien.
 
Wow! You lived in Dallas!

telomerase said:
I lived in Dallas for 13 years. The immigrants I knew were all hard-working and honest. Every person who lied to me or stole from me was a "native" (i.e., a second- or third-generation immigrant).

So did I. I only spent 7 years there and not 13 so I may be a little behing the curve. I sure did arrest a lot of immigrants, though. I know they were immigrants because I participated in their deportation hearings. Fraud, drugs, murder, etc. Maybe 75% of the people I arrested were immigrants (and no, I don't work for INS). Those guys were great for my job security.
 
I've never been quite sure why those who defend illegals do so.

What can they do that a legal immigrant can't do ??

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907
 
Yes, and we as a nation also screened those coming, sending back those with infectious diseases. Ellis Island and its like were not merely "aid stations" for those who had difficulties in the Atlantic crossing. No so with todays illegal alien.

And the reason that this worked, to the extent that it did, was that immigration was legal.
 
Sindawe said:
Yes, and we as a nation also screened those coming, sending back those with infectious diseases. Ellis Island and its like were not merely "aid stations" for those who had difficulties in the Atlantic crossing. No so with todays illegal alien.

Not quite right - my grandmother landed at Ellis Island with TB - she was quarantined in a state hospital at taxpayer expense, her four children were distributed to I guess what we'd call foster homes in today's jargon. She spent 7 years in various institutions before she was pronounced well enough to rejoin society. She wasn't returned to Germany. She never talked about it much, just to say it gave her an excellent opportunity to learn English.
 
And the reason that this worked, to the extent that it did, was that immigration was legal.

Immigration is still very legal . If someone enters my house without my permission they are home invaders , not immigrants .

Getting your feet onto US soil does not make you an immigrant - doing it illegaly makes you a criminal oppertunist , nothing more . Immigrants are those that enter legaly looking to become americans.

We have illegals here from many different countries - their loyalty is not to america , they remain in many cases very loyal to their county of origin.
 
longeyes said:
Herself, want to tell me where on Sol3 you live? I'm guessing it's proximate to Never-Never Land.

Is this your idea of "the high road" in public discourse?

For the record, Indiana. You know, one of those backward flyover states that trusts its citizens with .50 BMG rifles and will issue any non-felon a carry permit, no training required. And you're a...Californian?

I'm still waiting for you to cite that section of the Constitution in which the president is charged with "protecting the United States from invasion," followed by explicatory language from a pertinent authority addressing how "invasion" in such context means anything other than a military action.

C'mon, this one should be easy for you. Article, section, paragraph, followed by quotes.

You have read the Constitution of the United States of America, haven't you? It's kind of lengthy to be making guesses from memory.


To others: one reason we have "illegals" is because we have quotas for legal immigration -- and they get filled up quickly.

--Herself
 
Since you are asking again, herself ... I think that little snippet in Article 2 (Section 2, I believe - do you need it quoted verbatim?) noting that "the President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and the Navy ... and the militias of the several states ..." pretty much indicates a reasonable extrapolation is in fact, that the President is charged with the defense of the country ... (disclaimer: which in no way, shape or form gives the President the authority to override any other portions of the Constitution...). And one can also conclude that illegal aliens who habitually engage in violent criminal activity constitutes an "invasion."
 
Being an immigrant myself (legally, I hasten to add! :D ), perhaps I can contribute to this discussion.

I don't think anyone minds those who are productive, contributing members of society. I think there is a case to be made for a "guest worker" program to allow those who can indeed contribute to our society to come here and share its benefits. However, the huge problem with our illegal immigrants is that they are far more of an economic burden than an economic asset. Consider:

- Hospitals driven almost into bankruptcy because they are forced to treat those who have no means to pay, or no intention to pay, and are not adequately reimbursed by the government for being placed in this position;

- Schools and universities spending literally hundreds of millions of dollars (in some states, well into the billions of dollars) to educate the children of illegal immigrants, who cannot be turned away;

- Social services provided to illegal immigrants at great expense;

- Billions and billions of dollars in tax revenue lost because most illegals don't bother to file tax returns, and many employers will deduct "taxes" from their wages but neglect to turn these in, because they know they'll never be exposed, since the illegal won't complain;

- Massive overload of our law enforcement, criminal justice, and prison systems (I'd estimate that at least 20%, if not more, of our prison population are either illegal immigrants, or criminals by association with them in gangs, drug crime, etc.);

- Social disruption caused by non-assimilating minority communities who won't learn English, won't adapt themselves to the indigenous culture, and instead insist on their "right" to their own culture (illegally imported or not).

I could go on, but you get my drift. No economic return from illegal immigrants' labor can compensate for the above problems. I'm unabashedly hard-line about this: DEPORT THEM ALL! Impose swingeing fines on any company employing illegal labor. Charge enough for a product to enable you to pay adequate wages to those who produce it, so that you'll have people willing to work in those jobs. Withdraw all economic aid from countries that don't take steps to control their citizens' contribution to the illegal immigration problem. Stop all bank transfers to other countries except for those who can prove that they are legally present in the US. Allow all law enforcement officers, regardless of agency, to arrest illegal immigrants and turn them over to the INS. Deprive the children of illegal immigrants of their US citizenship, on the grounds that the fruits of a crime cannot be declared legal (and yes, if this takes a Constitutional amendment, let's do it!). Deprive all illegal immigrants of the right to State-subsidized education, health care, and social services.

In conjunction with these measures, institute a "guest worker" program that will allow enough legitimate immigrant labor to meet the economic needs of the USA. Insist that such people have no criminal record, and get their visas outside the US, not after they've already illegally immigrated. Ensure that they are registered as taxpayers, and that their continued presence in the US depends on their continued gainful employment. If they become unemployed, they should have a reasonable period in which to obtain alternative employment, but if they don't find another job, they should have to leave, and should not be eligible for social security and/or welfare benefits. They should have access to education, health care, etc. for their families, but should be required to fund their own health insurance for this purpose (and/or participate in an employer health care program). In other words, they should be an economic asset to the USA, not an economic burden.

Harsh? Perhaps... but realistic, I think.
 
*brain fart* I see the US as this awesome huge loft party where all of us have either stood in line or were here when it started...
the goverment is the security detail watching the doors and checks ID's...
now with illegal immigration, it's like troublemakers or underaged people trying to sneak in from the backdoor...
And canada is our neighbours upstairs that periodically will bang on the walls to try to get us to turn down the music.

Edit! *another brain fart* To fix our overcrowded prisons, I suggest we build them over golf courses! you can whack a ball with your freind on your lawn, put that million acres to good use keeping the felons out of our streets
 
I've never been quite sure why those who defend illegals do so.

What can they do that a legal immigrant can't do ??

1-Normally because they hire them.


2-Work as slave labor without benefits.
 
Not seeing the dangers of illegal immigration especially in light of active terrorism, must be the result of some kind of compartmentalized, insulated existence, no sarcasm intended. I'm at a loss for words at this point.:what:
 
AF_INT1N0 said:
I'll tell ya what...

I'd take as many workers through the border as wanted to come..

But they have to trade places with a non-working 3rd Gen welfare recipient..

I'd take a 100 million immigrants willing to pick peaches for $2 over the folks that sit in there government paid for house smoking weed and watching satellite TV and bitching about how the FEMA didn't move fast enough to bail them out of whatever hurricane they didn;t have the motivation to get outa the way of...


god, that was a good one. kudos.
 
In conjunction with these measures, institute a "guest worker" program that will allow enough legitimate immigrant labor to meet the economic needs of the USA.

While that sounds ok don't think it will help, many don't want in the system
because of criminal records, employers don't want them in system because
it's cheaper and they can abuse them.

Close the border, deport "slowly" with the help of local law enforcement
and then and only then alllow increased "legal" immigration.
 
by odysseus:
So I hope this isn't a red-herring thread in response to those to try to confuse some to this issue.
Yes, this is a red-herring thread, but it is intended to provide telomerase with a platform to complain about the government.

by telomerase:
Why don't you put your efforts into getting rid of the white politicians who tax you to pay for the welfare programs instead?
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The only way to stop "free rides" is to stop the free-ride programs. You can't do that by building a bigger INS bureaucracy.
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I say again, it's not the poor immigrants who are putting in the socialist politicians. It's you.
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There's a practical plan. They can start by trading places with the biggest welfare recipients in order of cost, so Archer Daniels Midland, Halliburton, etc. can get on the boat to Guatemala.
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The Federal and state governments, on the other hand, have taken 42% of the land in the United States. Most of this land is not parks; it is being used, often at your expense by the politically connected through the Forest Service, BLM, etc.
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But once again, you're up against people with real power. It's a lot easier to blame your problems on Mexicans, Jews, Gypsies, etc. than to deal with reality.
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Of course in 1905 we weren't living in a welfare state. And at least some people put their political efforts into restraining government instead of worrying about poor Mexicans under the bed.

telomerase, if you would stop ignoring everyone else's responses, you would see that you have no basis for your "anti-immigration" claims. Nearly every poster has made it clear that immigration is good, but illegal entry into the US is bad. I also unapologetically hold that view.
 
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