OK, I'm annoyed with Smith and Wesson

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Brian Williams,

This is why I buy things like a 1950 Heavyduty or my 1983 940etc.

Neither of which is the grandest of pocket guns. ;)

(Besides, who wants one o' them new-fangled postwar guns? Quality had gone all to hell by then. :p )
 
Now hold on a minute there. The only "special treatment" I requested was to be notified when my pistol shipped since I was going to be out of town more than 2 weeks after the turnaround time quoted to me both by email and phone before I shipped the pistol and when they recieved it. They fell behind in the work, not a big deal. It happens. But if you quote me a rough time and then go over it with no real idea of when you are going to START the work, much less finish it, don't notify me of a delay or any reason for it, and then send me a bill for services I did not request then I tend to get annoyed. I like Smith and Wesson. With the notable exception of my last couple of 4043s the city gave me to carry (now those were peices of...) I still think they make a good product, as should be evidenced by my latest purchase. I just think that their customer service could use some work. If that makes me difficult to deal with or a egomaniac riding a high horse, well, I really don't give a flying blue fart what you think. So there.;)
 
I purchased a brand new S&W Model 432PD Airweight last week. I am somewhat disappointed in that it needs service and is NIB. Burrs on the ratchet star have caused horrific marks on the recoil sheild and it also is not timing properly. Mea culpa. I never figured I'd have to check things like this on a new Smith revolver. Anyway, I'm paying a local gunsmith to fix the problems rather than send it back to S&W and wait and wait and wait.......
Just my $.02.
DRC
 
I would consider "special" anything that is not their ordinary everyday service for the average, ordinary, everyday customer.

They have told the world what their ordinary, everyday service is. Of course, they have also told us a lot of things.................including things about the agreement.

It is hard for Customer Service Departments (anybody's) to maintain a level of service that is beyond criticism and which meets everyone's expectations and yet continue to keep pricing at a level that everybody agrees with.

I don't like S&W's policies at times but I also don't like unfairly accussing them in public of something (a slow response time to repair) which may be unreasonable and which is designed to embarass and intimidate them. I would be more inclined after an acceptable time interval had passed. We are probably not talking about an ordinary problem with a known simple fix here. I am sure that they would be criticised more (perhaps rightly so) if they repaired the firearm, returned it and then had it re-occur in 6 mos.............which strikes me as a possibility here unless they reflect on the problem long enough.

PigPen
 
Was considering the 642, now maybe not. I wanted a light pocket gun, and in MA, our choices are very limited.
GunScrubber now has a 2nd formula "safe for polymer frames". That might be ok on the clear coat, then again, maybe not....
 
copaup,
Your best bet would be to talk to Neil Gibree or Kate Fredette directly, I have already talked to Neil. The bunch of people that we have in customer service are usually top notch and can and will help out anyway they can.

BC
 
copaup,

What did you use to clean it? I've been using M-Pro7 and haven't seen any finish trouble but I haven't had my 637 for very long. The M-Pro7 doesn't quite cut it for the cylinder face and now I'm worried about something stronger stripping the finish.
 
Just cleaned up the cylinder face of my 686 today, after a box of 38spcl & a box of .357mag. I use lead wipes. What will those do to the finish of a 642/637? I also use MPRO7, but find that for bores, I keep going back to the heavy duty stuff.
 
Several people have posted of their 642s and 637s peeling the clear coat off. They have sent their revovlers back to the factory to have it re-applied under warranty. They also post of the revolvers back in their hands in less than 2 weeks. The fix is simple, just disasemble, spray on clear coat, reassemble and ship out.
Sounds like S&W is dropping the ball on this one.
 
If you have problems with an S&W, please call that 800 # for customer service. My experiences with them have been first rate. They have sent me parts free for new revolvers. I do send in the blue warranty/info card - that registers your revolver's SN with them for the lifetime warranty. . They will send you a pick-up (no cost) shipping label for repairs. The 637/642 finish coat has been troublesome - and it can be damaged by strong solvents, as can blued finishes. Post your problems here for everyone - but, please follow up and let us know the outcome. I'll bet it will end up being positive... if you can discount the problems they have with summer vacations, etc.

My repair experience with a new Kahr/A.O. 1927A1 Thompson three years ago this month was horrible. It was gone over a month and returned filthy and loose. My S&W return this year - a 625 (.45ACP) with thousands of homebrew rounds through it whose b/c gap had closed up - was back in ten days - like new and gratis. My new Ruger .45 Redhawk went back to NH when only a few days old - poor QC. It was returned by it's one month anniversary - and is significantly better. My new Henry 'Big Boy' in .44M was picked up after a few days for burrs in the magazine loading tube - and back in perfect shape within a week. Warranty repair work - and customer service - can vary widely. Sadly, we are the final inspectors for all too many products these days.

Stainz
 
we are the final inspectors for all too many products these days.
Yup. A friend of mine bought a new GP100--two of the chambers had burrs that were so bad he could barely extract the empties after firing.

Ruger fixed it for free and even reimbursed his shipping costs, but I still feel like it should have been caught at the factory in the first place...

Given what seems to be a high probability of stuff like this happening these days, I consider customer service to be one of the major factors in my gun purchases.
 
Service

I'd suggest you give S&W a call on their 800 number. Ask for Neil in the Service Department.

If you ask for his assistance I think you will be very well pleased with the result... S&W Service Dept. goes to great lengths to satisfy customers... that is not to say everyone is great... they do have at least one jerk on the payroll...but otherwise I have had excellent service and had them go beyond what is required to take care of my needs.

FWIW

Chuck
 
I'm so extremely sorry so many have had such a "bad, wittle expewience" with Smith. You need to get rid of all your Smiths. In fact, I feel so sorry for you I'll take them off your hands for, say, 10 cents on the dollar. Feel better?

Smith and Wesson is a corporation. Corporations are comprised of many different people and flaws occur. There is no man named "Smith" who personally makes these firearms.

Smith is like every other manufacturer: they have good days and they have bad days. I've owned a ton of Smiths and some have been good and some have been not so good.

We cull the ones we don't like and keep the ones we like. That's what gun people do.

There is no product line anywhere that produces a perfect product.
Get used to it.
 
It's the "get used to it" mentality that has gotten us where we are today. If we keep accepting flaws we see and get used to it being a way of life then even more may show up in the future.
We should get used to seeing the value for our dollars. The corporations are certainly used to seeing their profit levels rise.
 
It's not a matter of accepting flaws. It's a matter of recognizing that flaws exist.

Seriously, everything I've ever owned has had flaws. Guns are no exception. I've even swapped parts on guns to come up with the one perfect gun.

Smith is no different. I've had trouble with Colt, Ruger, Remington, Sig, Browning, etc.

Personally, I like Smith. Nobody approaches their action. Not even Ruger. Especially not Ruger.

And occasionally there is a problem. But let's get real. Of the tens of millions of guns Smith has sold there are maybe 100 complainers on this forum. Is that really a fair representative? I don't think so.

When you take the number of dissatisfied customers and compare that number to the vast number of Smiths that are still clicking right along you see that it's still a fine weapon.
 
further rant and update

Nowhere in my post did I ever say anything about not liking Smith and Wesson products. In fact, if you would reread it and my subsequent additions to the thread you would note that not only do I generally like Smith and Wesson, but I bought another snubbie from them while my 637 still languished in limbo. The fact that I carry a SW J frame as a BUG by choice should certainly convey the fact that I consider SW to be a quality product that I would stake my life on. My complaint was never with the quality of the product, but with the manner in which SWs customer service department has dropped the ball. My warranty problem was a minor cosmetic flaw, the clear coat finish was peeling. After contacting them and expressing my stance that I would rather have an ugly gun than be without my pistol for several weeks I was told no problem, send it in, well get it back in a couple of weeks. Nearly a month later I contacted them and was told that it hadn't even been looked at, and would not be until they recieved payment. After finally getting one of their shop room people to answer the phone I was told that the billing was in error, the refinish was done, and the gun would ship immediately if I did not want the action job (that I did not order). I said thank you, ship it out. That was two weeks ago. No gun, no phone call, no email, and the shop isn't picking up the phone. I have been polite. I have been understanding. I couldn't care less that the work is delayed, as long as I am told that there is a delay, and given some idea of a turnaround time. Flaws happen. Things break. Trust me, I'm used to this. I break stuff all the time. I am perfectly willing to accept flaws, as long as I am treated with respect and consideration by the people who's responsibility it is to repair the flaws. I have numerous products from SW. The only problems I have had were the finish on the 637, and numerous problems with several city issued 4043s. The 4043s are all contract runs and not standard production, so I will not hold smith responsible for problems that might be brought on by dept specifications that are not entirely standard. Throughout this experience I have remained civil, and spoken nothing ill about the quality of the product, only the (lack of) customer service recieved. I find the tone of some posts and the implication that I am in some way being unreasonable, or bashing a company you are fond of unfairly as offensive, and unwarranted. I will say this in all caps for emphasis: I LIKE SMITH AND WESSON AND THE FIREARMS THEY PRODUCE, BUT MY EXPEIRENCE THUSFAR WITH THEIR CUSTOMER SERVICE HAS BEEN ABYSMAL.

On a seperate note, thanks to those of you who have given me specific names of people to talk to in hopes of resolving this. I will be contacting Neil later today and am sure that this will be quickly resolved. Information such as who to ask for is precisely why I started this thread to begin with.

I was using Tetra cleaning products when I noticed the worst of the peeling. I use these same products on all my other Smiths without problems to the finishes, including my new 342 which I am VERY fond of.
 
There's alot of talk in these forums about people who don't take responsibility for their actions. The same unfortunately can be said for corporations, and in fact all businesses, big and small.


Though we should recognize and appreciate the high quality of their products, and their excellent customer service, we shouldn't measure their overall worth by how well things are when everything goes right, but what happens when things go wrong.

It is a fact of life, that few if any products are 100% perfect. As rational people we do need to accept that fact.

It is also true that even a company that emphasizes customer service can have a repair order "slip through the cracks". Whether it's people or computers or whatever, things can and do get mixed up.

But when you reach a point that things have been fouled up, it's a good measure of a person and a business to see how things are then handled. Too often we get the "it wasn't MY fault" response. I'm positive it wasn't the person from Smith who answered Copaup's call that caused the delay or the error in billing. But it was their fault, as an agent for S&W for not appologizing for the errors, and doing whatever they could to make the situation better. Frankly, I never care whose fault it was, I just care how things are going to be handled from that point on to when the problem is resolved.


It's not the fact that Copaup had problems with S&W that's telling, but the fact that he's still having avoidable problems with them that is. Once an order was recognized as fouled up, I'd expect them to follow up on it closely, and do everything they could to get fullfil my order, as quickly as they could.
 
I don't understand....

Copaup,

I don't know why you're catching flack, you seem to have a reasonable gripe.

I've made a couple of posts, in the past, that I couldn't figure how the person responding came to their conclusion. It's amusing when they're off track, it's a little irriatating when they're angry. But, like you have, I try to take "The High Road".

Let us know what happens.

Respectfully,

jdkelly
 
Copaup,

I think when you ask a forum board of BMW owners about the frustrations you have with BMW service, you'll get some defensive answers. Take it in stride.

I think you're reasonable to expect a better follow up answer. The answer you received lacked any form of concern to you as a customer. There was no name and also no mention of what the payment is, what it's for, what it covers, where to send it or anything else regarding it. If that is what they were waiting for, you would certainly expect them to try to get it. If I didn't think you got a hold of some yahoo, I would think you possibly made up the e-mail but, you stand nothing to gain for doing so.

The one thing I will say is, it's your responsibility to make sure, up front, what the deal is before you send the gun in. You get the name of whom you spoke with, you document under what circumstances the repair may not be covered. You speak with them regarding the issue of the peeling up front and get a feel for what the deal is, etc. It didn't sound as if you covered this well up front? Maybe we as customers shouldn't have to make sure the communication line is as good as it should be? But, I have found I can't count on huge customer service departments to look out for me as well as I do myself! ;) If you would have, I don't think you would be having the frustration level you have now. If you did do this, my mistake for reading it incorrectly.

I suggest highly you stay on them. Best of luck, let us know how it turns out!
 
Ala Dan,

I too am watching this thread on S&W's new finish. Sounds like a
raw deal, with the shaft to boot?

No, the finish was added in response to a customer complaint (the old 642's did not have a matching finish on the stainless and alloy parts.)

Unfortunately, what solved one cosmetic problem created another, if people used certain procedures or chemicals in cleaning.

I predict that S&W will respond by pulling the 637 and 642 from the market, again, and within a year, gun buffs will be complaining like we did between '93 and '96. ;)
 
Tamara, No what?

Tamara,

quote:
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I too am watching this thread on S&W's new finish. Sounds like a
raw deal, with the shaft to boot?----Ala Dan
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No, the finish was added in response to a customer complaint (the old 642's did not have a matching finish on the stainless and alloy parts.)---Tamara
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I don't understand "why" the finish was added has anything to do with whether copaup got a "a raw deal, with the shaft to boot?" or not.

Some times things just go right by me, so if you could, connect the dots for me please.

Respectfully,

jdkelly
 
I predict that S&W will respond by pulling the 637 and 642 from the market, again, and within a year, gun buffs will be complaining like we did between '93 and '96.

Please forgive my ignorance but why don't they just go back to the less attractive but more useful "old way?" I know I'm just one guy, but I'd get the 642 regardless and would prefer not to encounter the problems Copaup faces. Or does the world not work that way? TIA.
 
My experience with S&W in the last few years:

442 J-frame..............had to go back for cylinder release repair.

629 44mag...............had to go back for trigger repair.

629 Mountain Gun....had to go back for trigger repair, sloppy cylinder, front sight coming loose, action locking up, and dents in barrel.

340PD Ti J-frame.......No problems yet, during first year.

In all cases they paid the shipping both ways. The MG went back and forth three times before they got it right.

Personally? These days I look at Ruger first.

-------------------------- 44
 
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