OK, so what is going on in New Orleans?

[The Freeholder]

(Let's stipulate that we all think any actions to confiscate legally owned weapons, in New Orleans or not, is a Bad Thing and we'd resist it. Therefore, we don't need to repeat that here. )

We've seen video, from various mainstream media sources, that seems to uncontrovertably show firearm confiscation in New Orleans. There were also several stories from the French Quarter (text only) on this subject. It wasn't played up too much, and now seems to have all but disappeared from their sites.

One of our Moderators (sorry, don't remember which and I'm too lazy to go look) reports that as of late Saturday evening, FOXNews is reporting that LEOs in New Orleans are only trying to "talk" people in to giving up their guns.

FOXNews also reports today that the US military on scene is not getting involved in any forceable evauations. This is tangental, but important, data.

Also tangental, I cruised over to The Firing Line yesterday, and their Moderators are aggressivly locking threads on the subject of firearms confiscation in New Orleans, saying that their is no evidence that this is happening.

I've been trolling some of the media sites today as I have some time to kill, and can find no mention of either.

So, what do we really have here? The video is hard to get around, as far as evidence goes. At least in a few instances, the evidence of our eyes is that confiscatory actions were taken. Were these the actions of some out of control/overzealous/can't read their orders operating groups, or have the phone calls, emails and yet to be delivered letters had their desired effect? Did someone high enough up see these stories for themself and pull hard on the reins?

Any hard information on this is welcome, by myself and I expect others. Please post any URLs, information on what newscast it was one, etc. We need checkable facts. That way, if we need to keep after our elected officials, we have our facts straight.

Thanks.

Edited to remove a duplicate sentence.

 

[beerslurpy]

Either they are being very sneaky about it, or someone up the chain of command got word of it and put a stop to it. Honore has come out and said his troops wont be assisting in any forced anything- they are only there to distrubute relief aid. Everyone else seems to be distancing themselves from what the NOPD chief said or outright opposing it.

I dont think it takes much brains to see that forcing people to do something is obviously more trouble than leaving them alone, doubly so if they have guns. Plus, it is pretty unamerican to go around behaving in such a manner. I guess we will have to wait and see. The media seems to have full access to the hurricane zone and I would bet they want nothing more than to catch cops or army beating up old ladies. It is a pulitzer for them, and lots of trouble for whoever gets caught on camera.

It just occurred to me that those looting cops who got caught on camera are going to be in deep doody when this is over. I really have to wonder why they didnt wear a poncho or change out of uniform first.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

It just occurred to me that those looting cops who got caught on camera are going to be in deep doody when this is over. I really have to wonder why they didnt wear a poncho or change out of uniform first.

Maybe because the LAST thing they ever expected was to have a television news camera crew walk in the front door while they were "shopping"?

Just a thought ...

 

[odysseus]

As usual, FUBAR.

If you are looking for consistency, you're not going to find it. My thinking is at this time the NG under the LA Governer's incompetent tact and the Mayor's willingness with the Chief's PD (both NO it seems and outside new "deputies" like the example of CHP's) in power decided to do this. I don't think Honore and his troops were involved in the confiscations, but more than likely knew it was going on from what anectodal info that is out there.

I would agree that from the top a squelch was put on it and new procedures were put in, however that doesn't justify what happened to the people who had this happen (who know's how many). The typical PR change has occured and I am sure the hope is that the awareness of these crimes will fall aside. Gross injustices were committed by those in high power, and that should be investigated and acted on.

I think more info and facts will come out. Much of it is still out there, but probably hard to compile. I can hear shredding machines running...

 

[boofus]

I think they are in CYA mode. That idiot Nagin has fled to Dallas for his own safety and I doubt anyone still in LA would object if a resident gave him a 230gr dose of common sense.

I think someone up high realized how close they are coming to outright armed insurrection or at the very least public disdain for every uniformed government agent and put a stop to the blatant violations of the 1st,2nd,3rd,4th,5th amendments ordered by Nagin and his PD chief.

Anyway, I emailed the Whitehouse about the mess going on there and maybe several thousand other people did too, and Shrub might have put a stop to it. *dreaming*

 

[Coronach]

This is the problem with trying to figure out what is going on- the details of what is going on- via news report, as it happens. You have no idea what is real, what is hearsay, what is hype, and what is just plain old wrong. I've not even bothered following up and posting on other gun-seizure threads, since I don't want to waste my time dealing with what might be pure BS.

What do we know? Some people got guns taken, on camera. That most certainly happened. We think we know why, but we may be wrong. Until this all shakes out, speculation is just that- speculation.

My guess? Mayor "I declare martial law" Nagin made a decision, tasked his people to go do the deed, and someone eventually got ahold of him and said one of two things:

1. Hey, dip*censored*. You can't do that.

-or-

2. Sir, this looks really bad. And you are in the south, and you like your elected position. You do the math.

Whether it has stopped, gone on undercover, or never really got started in the first place is a matter of speculation.

I'm as antsy for info as anyone else, and as cranky about this as well. I'm just not allowing my blood pressure to rise until I know what is going on.

Mike

 

[beerslurpy]

One thing that occurred to me listening to NPR is that a lot of cops there are from cities with drastically different gun and self defense laws. It is great that they are helping, but these guys normally operate in a very different legal environment. If an LAPD or NYPD cop sees someone legally open carrying or wielding an EBR in defense of their property (LA is a defense of property state), they might react differently than say a TX or FL trooper (who are familiar with (and perhaps approve of) the southern method of dealing with looters).

How tight of a chain of command is there? Were the imported cops briefed on the local firearms and self defense laws there? What orders were they given? Are they distributing food and water? Were the helping find dehydrated or starving people? Collect bodies? Restore "order" (definition may vary)?

 

[Coronach]

Don't know.

That's why the common practice is to pair "volunteer" officers with local officers. I have no idea how closely they're able to adhere to that logic, if at all.

Frankly, the more wildly contradictory words and actions we see coming out of NOLA the more it makes it look like the city and state government down there is in complete disarray. Perhaps that's understandable, but can we please find someone to remove the microphone from in front of Mayor Nagin's mouth? Please?

Mike

 

[spartacus2002]

Also tangental, I cruised over to The Firing Line yesterday, and their Moderators are aggressivly locking threads on the subject of firearms confiscation in New Orleans, saying that their is no evidence that this is happening.

Yep, it's pretty ruthless at TFL. One mod locked a thread demanding proof of gun confiscations before he'd reopen it.

I emailed him one of the videos from the news that's been passed around the internet, politely referring him to the thread he locked and saying "Here's the proof."

No response......

 

[The Freeholder]

At the risk of hijacking my own thread/not taking the High Road

Yep, it's pretty ruthless at TFL. One mod locked a thread demanding proof of gun confiscations before he'd reopen it.

I emailed him one of the videos from the news that's been passed around the internet, politely referring him to the thread he locked and saying "Here's the proof."

I know there thread you're talking about and considered doing the same. Decided against it.

It's why I hang out here vs. there. I may disagree with our moderators here on occassion, but I disagree with them there nearly always. I lurk, but I don't think I've ever posted.

 

[Jake]

I'm thinking that they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar, so to speak, and will now backpedal and CYA like crazy.

 

[Matt G]

Haw. If you disagree with Rich Lucibella nearly always, you'll find that you're disagreeing with most of the staff here most of the time, too. I don't walk in lockstep with Rich all the time (what thinking person would choose to say "ditto" to another all the time?), but he's a very smart, staunch supporter of human freedoms who puts his money where his mouth is, and is right a little more than a lot.

Let's examine those thread closures:
First:

ONE cop in charge and ONE gov't official saying what they said is enough. Following though even ONCE is sufficient. Sufficient for what? Sufficient to show that our "leaders" do not respect our rights. Not just our 2d amendment rights, but ALL our rights.

Oh, absolutely....and let's look at one lawful firearms owner. Shall we expand from his beliefs to the entire population of firearms owners?
I give you, Tim McVeigh.

Did you think the Media would deliver a report from "one" National Guardsman who might be quoted to say, "I don't know anything about the Mayor. I don't have the time nor the interest to enforce the Mayor's orders. I was asked to come down here and assist in Search and Rescue and that's what I'm gonna do"......snip....."what's that on the cutting room floor?"......"oh, nothing important".

My point is that it's REAL easy for firearms owners to appear as much the nut-case as The Brady Center.....I need only point to threads like this to prove my point.

Thread closed until such time as someone can provide us with current and credible reports that firearms sweeps are going on in NOLA.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181012&page=3

Then:

Guys-
Unless someone can demonstrate to me that forced evacuation is actually occuring in NOLA, other than in isolated cases, I'm going to have to close this thread.....there is no "Fantasy Forum" on TFL.

We blame sites like the Brady Center for spreading disinformation. I'm not going to allow the anti's that same ammunition against TFL.
Rich

then

You don't read, Cobray.
That is a well known statement by the NOPD Mayor......from 3 days ago. It's been repeatedly refuted by the news reports, the Governor, the City Attorney and the actions of the NOPD down there.

Thread closed until someone can back-up these claims with on site and current reports. Twinkie factor is just too high.
Rich

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181166

Rich is trying to get REAL information about REAL, CURRENT events. Not crap spewed by a mayor that has no concept of his powers, 3 days ago, but information about what is actually happening (prepare for an overused phrase that I hate: ) "on the ground."

Consider how angry you would be, if you founded, funded, and managed a site for the expansion of freedoms and truth, only to have couch commandos hijack the joint and spread their rumors and drivel all over it. You'd be pretty angry, wouldn't you? Rich is, and rightfully so. His point: if you have something of worth to tell us (like XavierBreath, in his fascinating firsthand account of trying to help in New Orleans immediately after the hurricane), then by all means, please post it-- we're hungry for news! But check out his sig line today: "TheFiringLine.com
More Signal, Less Noise.....please"

Frankly, I'd say his closures were admirable, and necessary.

Or did you have something to add?

 

[mete]

On the Matt Drudge program last night he listed numerous good things that were happening ; airport open for freight, NO Port starting to open, power to most of the business section ,etc. These things are never mentioned in the main media.And the 10,000 bodies ??? where did they get number .Actual count so far is less than 200 !! He also played recordings of the mayor's comments -said at different times and contradicted himself. Always search for the real news , you can find it somewhere.

 

[RealGun]

The stories are definitely credible. The one about a French Quarter bar owner packed and ready to leave having firearms confiscated by federal marshals presenting badges, a first person interview with the bar owner, came from the Washington Post. That story slipped away, because no one could make the connection with "federal marshals", while everyone but the NOPD was denying involvement.

The facts that should be verified are the denials, the spin control, and the accurate context, not whether it actually happened. The inquiry should also be why no one in authority or even NRA had any meaningful reaction.

This issue has been discussed on Fox, where (judge) Napolitano declared the obvious, that is was illegal.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Well, TFL is one extreme, Arfcom is the other.

90% of the threads over there are hand wringing and blame pointing at NRA, GOA, whoever is handy.

I got ripped open for daring to suggest that the NRA hadn't really "let us down" since maybe there was nothing happening to begin with

It will be interesting to see over the next months if the NRA and GOA lawyers can actually find someone that had their 2nd A rights violated. I have a feeling there won't be any.

Again, I remind us all of the fact that 99% of the time, what the press is reporting is edited and sensationalized. So, having some edited video doesn't really prove a lot.

When we have actual citizens whose rights were violated speaking up then I'll believe something happened. Til then I'm pretty skeptical.

As mentioned above, remember there were going to be 10,000 dead right?

Now we're just at 200......... sensationalism sells, remember that.

 

[armoredman]

I kinda thought the facts spoke for themselves. Fact - Police Commishioner Compass is on camera saying no firearms allowed in New Orleans, and only law enforcement will be allowed to have firearms. Fact - officials raid a luxurious upscale mansion, restrain the residents, confiscate thier firearms, and then release the now disarmed residents, even allowing one to be interviewed on camera. Fact, out of state police are seen violently disarming a frail old woman, and dragging her from her home, putting her on a Hummer with her two dogs, exit stage left.
These are what we have. These appear to be good solid evidence of impropriety and illegal activity on the part of appointed officials.
I believe the upswellings of outrage that came from the members of this boad, and many others around the country, were heard, and heard LOUD. This was a trial balloon, a straw man, etc., and they realized maybe we aren't as quick to shoot as they thought, but we are also not as toothless as they'd hoped.

 

[kbr80]

It's why I hang out here vs. there. I may disagree with our moderators here on occassion, but I disagree with them there nearly always. I lurk, but I don't think I've ever posted.

Most of the mods here, are mods at TFL.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Posted by armoredman:

Some "facts"

I would just respectfully suggest that we don't have ANY "facts" yet, just video from our friends at the press, the same press that we constantly rip into as being worthless.

It may have been a "trial balloon", or it may be that what we saw on the news didn't actually tell the whole story. Would that surprise you?

 

[RealGun]

Listen up! That video of the old lady is NOT the only evidence nor was it the original report of gun confiscation.

 

[HankB]

Where's Jefferson County (or is it Jefferson Parish?), relative to NOLA?

The reason I ask, is that there was a news report on last night that WalMart and other large stores were "ordered" to open up so people could get the things they need.

Included was an interview with the sheriff - he said words to the effect that people needed to be able to buy supplies, and then he made a comment that almost floored me - he said that if "FEMA or any other official" interfered, he would "arrest them and put them in jail." (If he's on the level, he deserves a serious "attaboy.")

The fact that we have a sheriff who felt compelled to go on TV and issue a warning against interfering to "some" officials indicates that local LEOs are NOT all on the same page down there . . .

 

[The Freeholder]

Matt G.,

Perhaps you misunderstand my position. I'm not specifically referencing the closed threads on New Orleans as being closed inappropriately. I'm not a TFL regular, and don't know enough about the rules there to have an opionion on that. I do think he was overly aggressive in his closing of them (especially the language employed, but I'm used to the generally genteel moderation on THR), but that's his business and the business of the forum owner. (I take it from your comment they one and the same? I'm not a TFL regular and don't know the background of the place. If they are, then his house, his rules. I can respect that.) What I was doing was stating a personal opinion.

And no, I had nothing worthwhile to add to the threads you mention. I don't post on TFL , although I do have an account. (My nick there is 30-06, same as it used to be here. I've never bothered to ask for it to be changed.) I look in on the place occasionally, as I do many other gun-related sites. In this case, I was doing so to see if anyone there had any pointers to any useful information on this subject.

I can understand Rich Lucibella's frustration with the lack of current, verifiable information, since I share it. As a denizen of the Internet since the late 80s, I also understand, better than you may realize, his comment on the signal-to-nosie ratio. Unfortunately, the Internet seems to have disproved the old assertion that a million monkeys, seated in front of typewriters and given infinite time, would eventually reproduce the works of Shakepeare. One of the great promises of the Internet and especially the WWW was that information would be more available and more accurate than ever. As we both can see, that hasn't happened yet.

I also appreciate his work and his efforts, even though I chose not to avail myself of them. I too support human freedoms in various ways, including putting my money where my mouth is. I monetarily support several websites, including this one, as I did when the server fund request was put out. I'm a member of my state 2nd Amendment organization (Grassroots North Carolina , plug, plug) and in light of current events, I'm thinking about GOA or perhaps JFPO. On top of that, I spend a some portion of my spare time blogging on gun-related issues (among a lot of other things). I doubt that that puts in in Mr. Lucibella's category of support, but I try to do my part.

My position was one of agreement with sparticus2002, while noting that I prefer THR to TFL. This is in part due to the generally gentle nature of the moderation. Case in point, there are numerous active threads on THR that would have been closed by now on TFL, and not just on the subject of New Orleans. I appreciate the relatively wide lattitude we're granted in someone else's house, and I try not to be abusive of it.

As you mention it, yes, I do disagree with the moderators here frequently. Sometimes it's the positions they take on various subjects under discussion, sometimes it's a decision to close a thread and sometimes it's "Why doesn't somebody close that thread down?" It would be a deathly boring world if we all agreed with each other constantly. A gentlemanly disagreement adds a certain spice to the day, as I see it.

I hope this clears up my position for you on these subjects. It's easy for 2 sentences to be misleading, especially in our current context. If you'd like to discuss it further, I'll be happy to carry on via PM.

 

[boofus]

 

[Coronach]

THAT was one of the funniest scenes in that movie.

Mike

 

[rock jock]

I don't think it matters that the confiscation effort has stopped, or even that it was limited. The fact is that is was occurring, period. This is enough to express outrage at, and to demand accountability.

 

[odysseus]

Fact - Police Commishioner Compass is on camera saying no firearms allowed in New Orleans, and only law enforcement will be allowed to have firearms.

I saw that too myself. There should be no doubt to this. Also, we know Nagin and other leaders (Gov) also echoed this officially. We also know of some incidents. We don't know how many or how wide spread. Might not be too much, but then that doesn't matter to me as much as the policy being placed.

I fully understand the pause and caution on the firespread of this topic on forums, but let's not be so cautious that we start minimizing this too much. I think that's exactly what those who committed these crimes would want; it's easy enough for that because the real work of humanitarian aid and rebuilding from this disaster is the main mission.

boofus, I don't see this as a tin-hat issue. If you think what I am saying here is being tin-hatted, well that's too bad for you.