Okay get ready to laugh. But seriously, what about Draco for bear defense?

[Dr_2_B]

We laugh at these bear defense threads, but I'm actually interested in hearing what you think about a hypothetical sit'n where a draco AK 47 pistol was carried for bear defense. It fits thew PDW mold because it's smaller than a rifle and one could carry it on a sling. Plus it's a pretty tough round.

Okay, flame away.

 

[TYFOOON]

A slung pump 12 gauge w/ slugs would be better.

 

[Fiv3r]

Probably impractical but I would think it would get the job done on most critters. 30 rounds on target should more that ruin a bears day...aiming might be the problem. I've never been able to hit jack squat with a Draco...but I still want one

 

[Mr.454]

Um....yes yes and yes. Excellent idea if you can't shoot it the fireball will light the bear on fire.

 

[dcarch]

Hey, actually, my cousin who lives in Maine has one of these for exactly that purpose. Well, for bear and moose. It's not a crazy idea at all.

 

[rcmodel]

Oh yea!

A few shots and the bear couldn't see or hear well enough to finish attacking you!

Course, you couldn't see or hear well enough to run from him either.

rc

 

[M2 Carbine]

but I'm actually interested in hearing what you think about a hypothetical sit'n where a draco AK 47 pistol was carried for bear defense.

About the only time you would want to shoot these rifle caliber pistols, without good ear protection, is if your life depended on it.

I have a number of such guns. I would like to use them as defense guns but it's just not handy carrying ear muffs around with the gun.
Although I do have ear muffs on top of the gun safes, where the loaded AK, PLR and AR pistols are kept.

 

[Sam1911]

1) Any gun you have when you need it is better than the gun you don't have. Does a Draco seriously fit that bill better than other guns? Will you really carry one more readily than a 12 ga. shotgun or a high energy revolver?

2) It is always a good idea to consider exactly what threat you're preparing to face. In this case, bears are not the same in all places. Black bears are fairly non-aggressive, smallish, and not enormously tough. A small-to-medium game round, and even some Magnum handgun rounds, may be enough to convince him/her to leave. If Mr. Bear's first name is Brown, Grizzly, Kodiak, or Polar, folks don't start feeling not-too-under-gunned until they're toting a 12 ga. loaded with pretty snorty slugs. Is 7.62x39 mm the kind of round you'd believe capable of dispatching the critter you're worried about under perfect hunting/ambush conditions? If not -- if you wouldn't carry a 7.62x39 even to hunt a bear -- why would you believe that it's a good choice for killing one that's charging you in a split-second, adrenaline-fueled fury?

3) If you think the threat you might face is serious enough to burden yourself with a weapon because you believe you might need to use lethal force to kill it rather than be killed yourself, it is of utmost importance that you actually be able to HIT IT with the weapon you're planning to carry. The gun then must be two things: a) powerful enough to do the job, and b) the gun you are able to shoot with the greatest practical accuracy, as fast as possible. If you think this a Draco fits that bill -- you haven't shot one enough yet.

4) When you are contemplating saving your LIFE from a violent attack of any sort, this is not the time to bring out your "kewl" range toy. Pick the most effective weapon you possibly can, and prove to yourself that it is, bar-none, the one weapon with which you can kill something in the least amount of time, under any conditions.

5) "Bear" threads are a running joke here. "Practical uses for Dracos" threads are just plain jokes. But combine the two and we'll take the idea seriously!

 

[NOLAEMT]

Draco... I don't think so.

now perhaps a serbu super shorty in 12 gague? I could see that, although i wouldn't want to shoot it with bear defense ammo.

 

[Hammerhead6814]

Think the cheaper and quicker route would be a 12 gauge with slugs.

 

[armoredman]

Draco with a single point sling, interesting idea...

 

[tahunua001]

ok so you never specified the type of bear you are worried about. everyone is automatically going to insist that you need at least 620 wrist splitter ammo in ballistictip with +p loads(may be a slight exaggeration). since about 80% of bears in the US are black bears I'm going to assume that that is what you are talking about. I would think that a 7.62x39 in federal powershok or round of equal lethality would do just fine for black bear.
it wouldn't be my first choice just because of the size of gun you're packing and the price of hunting ammo for them but it would do the job you need it for and you definitely have enough ammo to put down a bull moose if you need to.
when I'm in black bear country I pack a XDM45 but if I went anywhere where there was a chance of a brown bear, grizzly or kodiak then I would want at least a 44 mag and a 480 would make me feel more comfortable. for black bear I would say 40 SW, 45ACP, 7.62x39, 7.62x25, 38 sp and 357 mag would all be viable pistol rounds as long as you load soft tips, hollow points or ballistic tips.

 

[Strykervet]

Geez... Get a big can of bear spray. It works well. They are usually going in the opposite direction anyway, but if one is coming at you, a 12ga. shotgun with slugs is a better tool. That is what the people on National Geographic use, you know, the ones that have been capturing and tagging bears for 40 years. I'd use what they use.

Personally, I think the Draco, Keltec 16's, Judge, etc., should be left at home, they have no use as serious hunting or defense tools. While there is nothing wrong with owning a range toy, trying to find legitimate uses for one more often than not is a fool's endeavour. Sam pretty much nailed it on here. If you wouldn't use one to harvest the animal in a legitimate hunt, why would you use one for life or death protection?

There are a ton of threads about Glock 20's for bear defense. Tons. But none ever come back to say "hey, it worked great" or even to say "it sucked" so I have to believe it either was a colossal fail, they grew up before they could repost, or else they ended up bear dinner. Whatever, it just leads me to believe there are better options. Like the very untacticool pump shotgun.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

There are a ton of threads about Glock 20's for bear defense. Tons. But none ever come back to say "hey, it worked great" or even to say "it sucked" so I have to believe it either was a colossal fail, they grew up before they could repost, or else they ended up bear dinner.

Um...I think you'll find most of those are of the blackie type, and not only that but most find it a "last resort" at that. I would not be comfortable carrying a 10mm in Grizzly or brownie country. I carry a G29 everywhere at my northern place, in effect "to be armed" at all times, with something that has the power to stop, coupled with rapid-fire capability, in case of blackies. Even so, I am not in the least bit thinking that once I am up there full-time I would not be better served by my Mossberg 930 SPX. It's just that I would have to start seeing them in my yard every day to be toting that around full-time.

 

[daytodaze]

Are bear attacks becoming more frequent? Seems like there is a new thread every other day on what to shoot a Bear with.

 

[MCgunner]

Why bother? I'd rather my SKS Paratrooper, longer barrel, has a stock so I don't have to spray and pray.

Are bear attacks becoming more frequent? Seems like there is a new thread every other day on what to shoot a Bear with.

Probably not. People are just more paranoid. I grew up in the outdoors. Most folks asking these questions are probably city slickers.

Truth be told, though, I bet some of these threads are attempts to justify a firearms purchase to the wife.

 

[ATBackPackin]

Do I think a Draco is my first choice for a woods gun? Probably not.

Sam pretty much nailed it on here. If you wouldn't use one to harvest the animal in a legitimate hunt, why would you use one for life or death protection?

I have to disagree with you both on this point. When hunting the goal is one shot, one kill for multiple reasons. When trying defend yourself from an attacking animal you are not necessarily trying to kill it but make it decide that continuing to attack is probably not going to end well for it. Also a big difference is you don't care how many shots it takes to defend yourself unlike hunting where you wouldn't want to put ten bullets or more into the meat.

Shawn

 

[nathan]

That should give you enough firepower to scare off a grizzley. I have no doubt it will get the job done. I ve shot the Draco at one occasion and it is quite accurate at 50 yds. And ammo is cheap .

 

[MCgunner]

One thing, i've done a fair amount of backpacking. If this long gun is to be a hiking companion, I wouldn't for the simple reason that it is un-necessary weight. Every ounce counts, especially in rough country. Heck, in Black Bear country, unless you want more for the possibility of two legged critters (a greater threat), a .38 special is plenty enough insurance for me, good ol' M10 4" heavy barrel. I have a J frame 3" that's lighter, though. It's quite accurate, too. I also have an ultralight snubby that will put 5 rounds into 3" at 25 yards. I ain't shooting at a bear unless he's on me and I have no other choice and the pepper spray didn't work.

 

[wlewisiii]

If you're happy with that level of round, get a lever action .30-30 instead and put some ghost ring sights on it. Similar ballistics, better handling and accuracy than a sawed off AK would have.

 

[Sam1911]

I have to disagree with you both on this point. When hunting the goal is one shot, one kill for multiple reasons. When trying defend yourself from an attacking animal you are not necessarily trying to kill it but make it decide that continuing to attack is probably not going to end well for it.

Seriously? Even when considering human attackers, there's not necessarily a lot of "deciding" going on. The only way you can be even remotely certain of ceasing a violent attack is to break major systems so that the will to attack becomes irrelevant as the body cannot carry out that impulse. With an animal the fear and cognizance of injury and consequence are far less than all but the most substance-addled human attacker.

When hunting, if your shot doesn't produce an immediate reaction, that's unfortunate but an acceptable risk with no real consequences for you but the possibility of a long track. When defending against a dangerous animal charge... I'm sure you see the point I'm getting at.

Also a big difference is you don't care how many shots it takes to defend yourself unlike hunting where you wouldn't want to put ten bullets or more into the meat.

No...the BIG difference is that in hunting you're only likely to get one shot before the animal has spooked and fled, while when defending yourself you're only likely to get one or two shots on target before a large, immensely strong and angry predator is on top of you, dislodging your defensive weapon and breaking apart your body's critical systems.

If you're thinking of this as a noise-maker with the ability to deliver pain, perhaps suitable to "scare off" non-aggressive bears, fine. If you're thinking of this as an effective defensive arm capable of stopping a determined attack by a large preditor -- just NO.

 

[Sam1911]

I ve shot the Draco at one occasion and it is quite accurate at 50 yds.

I have to ask: Have ANY of those proposing this to be a good idea set up realistic defensive scenarios and RUN one of these guns in a manner intended to simulate life-and-death encounters?

I have.

To say that a Draco is reasonably accurate at 50 yds is not a lie. Get in position or belly up to the bench and plink clay pigeons or paper targets and put a big grin on your face that you can hit them with this kewl gun.

To say that the Draco is conducive to fast and effective accuracy under the kinds of practical conditions as we're discussing here would certainly be untrue.

The pseudo rifle/pistol platform is completely out-performed under practical shooting conditions by both standard long-arms and by conventional handguns. No question, no debate, no "maybes" and "if you hold your tongue just right" could-bees. So if you decide to carry one as bear defense, admit to yourself that you are deliberately hampering your ability to survive by choosing a gun that excites you, but which cannot be made to perform with the speed and effectiveness of other more conventional choices.

 

[Sam1911]

A relevant post from the recent discussion of this issue:

Self defense is very serious business, not time to play with your kewl gun. Use whatever firearm you get accurate hits with as quickly and surely as possible.

Run simulations against a timer and score your hits -vs.- speed. If the AK pistol is the firearm you make the most hits with the fastest, then use it.

If not -- or if you really have no idea because you won't test it out yourself -- then completely discard the idea.

... What matters (once your deterrent and avoidance strategies have failed) is having a gun that you can make the most effective hits with at the fastest rate your brain and muscles will let you.

I've never met any person any where who could shoot a Draco, AR pistol, KelTec PLR, or any of these range toys with anything approaching the effectiveness that they could a common service style handgun or a full stocked shotgun.

As it happens, we routinely DO run these guns through the same defensive drills, scenarios, and stages we use with handguns, so I've actually studied the matter in real life...

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I am a bit of an "armchair outdoorsman," but that has never stopped me from offering an opinion.

I don't think much of that gun for that usage. If the bear is actively mauling you, especially if you have your other hand in front of your face, its length and forward weight balance (exacerbated by the "banana clip") is going to make it awfully awkward to bring to ... bear. If you have some distance and warning, you have time to deploy a long gun with a buttstock.

 

[NMGonzo]

You guys carrying all that weight ... oh, to be young!