Okay - Here it is - POLL - Open Carry, Yes or No - and Why.

If legal in your area, will you carry openly? Why?

  • YES!

    Votes: 202 39.6%
  • NO!

    Votes: 94 18.4%
  • At times.

    Votes: 228 44.7%
  • Undecided.

    Votes: 15 2.9%
  • Virginians are correct to carry openly.

    Votes: 132 25.9%
  • Virginians are wrong to carry openly.

    Votes: 6 1.2%

  • Total voters
    510
Status
Not open for further replies.
I do because I can!! The only people that it ever seems to bother, is an occasional tourist. They need to get over it. I'm surprised that so many gun owners are willing to cave on a right like this.
 
Concealed carry in summer is a PITA. I don't like IWB holsters, they just aren't comfortable for me. In autumn, winter, and midway through spring I can wear a tee shirt or a lightweight shirt tucked in, and a long-tail shirt or sport jacket loose to cover the holster. That's just not viable when the temperature is around 90 and the humidity not far behind. So I either don't carry in summer, or I downgrade from a 1911 to a .380 is a pocket holster. Which is a crappy solution because I usually wear jeans.

Yeah, if open carry were legal here, you bet yer bippy I'd let it all hang out.
 
I say open carry all the way. I rarely carry my main carry gun concealed, full sized K and L frame S&W .357Magnums don't hide well in the summer. I have never had a problem with any police in Virginia, not even in downtown Newport News when I repoed some duy's car and he flagged down a passing cop. He just looked at the paper work and told Mr. Deadbeat "should've paid your bills."

For the people worried about losing the suprise element, that's were the two S&W M60s in my front pockets come into play. My extra pair of aces you might say.
 
"Tactical". There's that word again....:rolleyes:

Daily open carrier here, as many of you already know from past debates. Don't remember how long I've been doing it now - maybe close to 4 years now?

ksnecktieman pretty much nailed my point of view on the subject. To "tactically" avoid my long, drawn-out soap box ritual, I'll just add a little ditty in regards to the amount of unknown crimes that may have been thwarted when a BG, or potential BG, is confronted with open carry...

First, a story from back in my school days. There was once this farm boy in my class who, although we regarded him a good friend in our close circle of friends, we picked on alot. He was mostly targeted as the brunt of practical jokes because of his almost insane reactions to small amounts of carefully doled amounts of pain. Something as trivial as a school-kid smack to the back of the head or a titty-twister would cause this boy to go into a fit of rage that I've only seen mimicked in Looney Tunes. We'd all laugh and run, and by the end of the day we were all hanging out and laughing about the prank.

Well, none of us really got to see retaliation for all those years of pranks. Fast sprinters, I guess. Maybe he secretly enjoyed the attention and didn't really try too hard to catch us. I dunno, it's regardless. Anyway, ...

A new kid comes to our school. He'd always been a good close friend of mine from out-of-town, so by default he hung with us. During a ribbing session one day with the farm boy aforementioned, somebody whips out a stapler and slams a staple into farmboy's arm. Not cool. Now, maybe the new kid was standing too close, laughing too loud, or his newness made him a likely target, but farm boy immediately turns to him and slams him to the concrete. I step in to his defense, and next thing I know I have the ol' "AFTER SCHOOL, YOU 'N ME, YANK!" - ultimatum. My hormonol honor at stake, I agree.

I meet him after school, out by the buses, well away from any chaperone's watch. I'm gonna cream this pig-farmin' hick. Farm boy shows up. We drop our books, roll up the sleeves, and start goin round n' round....

I'm noticing as I circle him, that he's bigger than I remember him being. I particularly notice the veins sticking out of his hamhock-forearms and begin to think, "Boy, this was a stupid idea. I'm gonna get my butt handed to me...". I want to run, but the teeny-bopper hormones tell me to stand my ground. I go for a gut-shot with the hardest, swiftest uppercut man has ever witnessed....

Farmboy doesn't so much as flinch. Remember the scene in that Indiana Jones movie when he reaches for his pistol and it's not there? That was pretty much how it ended. I let out small wimper and run as fast my legs would carry me.


So, what's the point? Point is this: Most people (let's call them BG's), haven't thoroughly thought out the potential consequences of their actions. Most of the time, it's because they've never been face-to-face with those consequences. If I were a poor man :rolleyes: , .....well, a poor man brought the point of desperation, that needed money so bad that I decided to rob a place, am I willing to risk death?

I may never get to "pre-make" that choice if I walk into a store and just put a pistol barrel under the clerk's nose. Sure, cops might come, but by default they can't shoot if I don't threaten them.
However, if I walk in the same store and see a .45 on a typical-looking man's side, he is not held by all the same rules and regulations a cop is (or so I believe, being a bad guy). As a matter of fact, he's carrying that gun to kill me. Kill me eh? Well, maybe I'll come back later, or pick another store, or maybe there's more than one gun-packin citizen out there gunnin' for me, but the next one has it under his coat. Maybe I better get a job instead, and live another day....


....and, well, who knew I ran anyway?
 
So many views, and they all have their points...whether I agree with them or not they do make me think.

Open carry when….

Out hunting and stop for coffee, sure.

In an environment where I don't stand out like a neon sign, not a problem.

Otherwise I don't want to be a deterrent to some goblins actions, I just want to protect myself and mine. My preferred method of doing so is to keep the low profile...a large gun hanging out there for all to see would defeat that purpose.
Just like making with the fung ku noises and striking a pose prior to H2H would give away any advantage you might have, advertising that you are not the average sheeple doesn’t USUALLY have any advantages.

Just another view/opinion…..
 
I voted "At times" because I do carry openly at times, and "Virginians are correct to carry openly" because it's often the only way we can carry legally. It's my understanding that, in the three incidents mentioned in the recent news articles, the people carrying had to carry openly either because they were in a restaurant that served alcohol or because they did not have concealed-carry permits.

Would you carry openly if you could not legally carry concealed? That's a tough question, but if the only other choice was leaving the gun at home, I probably would carry openly more often.
 
Gays didn't gain mainstream acceptance (or tolerance) in this country by hiding in the closet.

Blacks didn't gain civil rights by staying in the back of the bus.

Women didn't get the vote by standing in the kitchen baking cookies.
 
1) He will avoid you, and make a victim of someone else. This may make you feel better, but does not solve the problem. And you have someone else's blood (hypothetically, at least) on your hands.
2) He will change his tactics, and probably try to catch you off guard. A baseball bat to your head is likely to be convincing.
3) He tries anyway, and one of you ends up dead. I'm thinking that I'd rather not go there, if I can help it.

Ok, I've seen stuff like this quite a bit, and frankly I'm calling Bull????? on it.

1) IF a BG sees my gun and moves on to someone else, it does solve the problem, they are not attacking me or the people with me. Because someone else chooses not to carry a weapon is not my fault, no ones blood is on my hands because other people choose not to carry a weapon.

2) Why!? Why would a BG choose to attack me if he can move on to a less dangerous victim? Do you really think BG are going to think to themselves "hmmm, he's got a gun, what can I do to get the advantage again?" No these guys aren't interested in putting in alot of extra planning and work to try to rob (or assault) me, they are going to find easier pickings.

3)And this differs if you are carrying concealed how? This one is such backwards logic that it astounds me.

I'm not saying that there isn't tactical issues to carrying openly, but come on, carrying doesn't preclude being aware of your surroundings. If someone is going to try to grab your gun, they by definition they have to be within 2 feet of you. How can you not be aware of their presence? do you put blinders and ear protection on when you strap the holster on?

Oh and don't bother to bring up LEO statistics into this discussion, I'm so tired of that. You do not regularly try to wrestle people to the ground, you do not stand within a couple feet of hostile people trying to tell them that they are going to have to settle down, You really aren't in the sorts of situation that are going to warrant worrying about weapon retention. If a bad guy is within 3 ft of you and your hand isn't on your weapon, you have already failed in your task.
 
MNCCW...

I was going to mention retention courses - or something related - considering the exposure might be conducive to "pickholsters". But it seems you've covered it decently.

Yet - as in (probably) my case, the age and body not what they were, some formal training to reduce or eliminate the tug on the belt might yet be in order. I'd hate to have to wrestle with a strapping 20-something... first - I don't know how to be nice about the dance, second it would have to be super-short lest I run out of steam (which is probably why I don't know how to be nice).

-Andy
 
The MN personal protection act doesn't say a handgun has to be concealed, so with a CCW it is legal to carry open in MN, but our CCW course instructor made some very good arguments against doing so in most situations. Still I voted "sometimes" because there are times when i would carry open. For example, when I'm up at my dad's farm plinking at cans I would carry open. If I went in the store or cafe in our home town, I wouldn't worry too much about carrying open. Everyone in town knows who I am, and everyone in town has guns. No one would raise an eyebrow.

However, when I am at home in the Minneapolis metro area, I will make a concerted effort to keep my weapon concealed. I don't want to freak out the general public--from what I've seen they are freaked out enough already--and I don't want to make my gun the target for some thief or mugger.

I don't mean to tell people what to do, but I can't see much good coming from open carry. If you believe that is the right thing to do, you should follow your beliefs, but I have a lot of experience living with and working with antis, and these aren't the most logical and rational people. They will take something like this as proof that the sky really is falling.

I'm not saying that we should base our behavior on the overreactionaries on the other side. I'm just saying that maybe we should be selective about picking our fights.
 
I've lived most of my life in 2 states, Arizona & New Mexico, where open carry is legal. I got over open carry early on because it brings undue attention to yourself and family. When I'm in the field , which is most of the time, I carry.
I have never subjected myself to the CCW-Permit system.
I believe it is an invasion of my privacy to register myself that way and to voluntarily surrender a right for a permit with fees and other civil rights intrusions attached.
In New Mexico concealed carry has always been a petty offense. Now with the N.M. CCW system I hope it stays that way.
That said, I never carry concealed because their are alot of LEO's who take personal pleasure in throwing the book at you.
 
Lobotomy boy

I've open carried in Mpls without too much notice (in uptown of all places) so I personally don't see it as that big of a deal. However I do admit that I usually (70-+%) carry concealed, or moderately "covered" just because I don't feel like being an embassador of goodwill at the time. :D

Of courses that being said I don't question anyones choice to carry conceled, as long as they don't presume that they know what is best for me.

IMHO If you want to see change (and acceptance) you can't do it through towing the status quo, women didn't get equal rights by staying barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, so to speak.
 
In Michigan, open carry is legal, or rather, there is no law AGAINST open carry. However, there are laws all over the place against brandishing and most LEO's in cities, towns and villages feel; if they can identify a firearm, it's brandishing. There are exceptions, of course, but I have not heard of anyone attempting open carry on a day to day basis, especially in the cities.

As for me, I prefer no one knows I'm carrying, so I voted no.
 
Another good point our CCW instructor brought up was that it is terribly expensive to become a test case.
 
Here too...

In Michigan, open carry is legal, or rather, there is no law AGAINST open carry. However, there are laws all over the place against brandishing and most LEO's in cities, towns and villages feel; if they can identify a firearm, it's brandishing

That's kind of the way things are in Washington. The law here states that it is a crime to cause 'undue concern' with a weapon. It's my belief that carrying a 1911 on my hip would cause 'undue concern. Which makes me sad.

If it was explicitly conveyed through the laws on the books to be legal, I would open carry. No need for fancy IWB holsters. I do feel open carrying puts more responsibility on you to aware of your surroundings. Someone on The High Road started a thread once, about how he was open carrying in New Hampshire. One of the points he made was how he was reading a magazine in a store, and a LEO approached him and attempted to remove the gun from his holster before the guy knew what was going on. As someone else said, Retention would be my chief concern.

As far as 'being the first target'...Ditto for above. Awareness. But, all this is just bluster for now. Like Lobotomy Boy said(I thought MNCCW was insulting someone the first time used that name :D ) Being a test case in a state where the law is marginal WOULD be expensive.

Sergeant Bob...you make good points. I had never thought of it that way before. Some people, WildAlaska comes to mind, feel that all people that open carry do so to make political statements. I am okay with that...sometimes, you have to rock the boat. Just as long as it is you paying the legal fees, and not me.:D

greg
 
That was "mvpel" up here in Manchester, NH. And see if he doesn't hand the Manchester PD their butts for his trouble.

However, I don't carry openly unless the odds of running into another human are low. That means only when I'm north of Concord and running around in the woods or hiking. I do open carry in the White Mountains, and so far only one person has so much as looked at me funny.

As for retention, a Bianchi M12 military holster provides plenty, and is not a problem.
 
When I first got my concealed permit, there was a lot of things I wasn't aware of. Things like, I only needed it when I was within the boundaries of incorporated cities or railroad, mining or logging camps... Otherwise, I could walk about concealed without any permit whatsoever.

I knew Idaho was an open carry state, as when I first moved to my town, many people carried openly and no one was ever hassled. But I never knew from whence this came.

Time passed and fewer and fewer people carried openly. Perhaps because a lot of us newcomers weren't aware of the legacy? Who really knows!

What I do know, is that as time passed, I began carrying openly more and more. At first it was just because it was easier to strap on my handguns and drive out to the desert and start shooting. No fuss. No muss. Eventually, I began to do things like filling up my truck before leaving town. Going into stores for snacks, etc.

No one ever blinked an eye.

Now, I'm the assistant manager of one of the 2 grocery stores in our town. As it happened one day, I was coming back from the range and needed to pick up something for dinner. So I stopped at my store and sure enough, I was put to work (by myself) helping to check out customers. Then, it was that I had my P89 strapped on. Nowadays, you're far more likely to find my vaquero strapped to my leg.

Do I carry openly all the time? No. Only those times when I will be using my guns. Usually to and from the range, and always while traveling (you just never know when you might come upon a decent place to shoot).

Meanwhile, I've given just a little thought as to tactics. I've come to the conclusion that most criminals simply will not target your place of business if they know, or find out, you are armed. It's just too dangerous for them.

Last fall, when I was campaigning for Mayor, I had the occasion to be at a rally, where I openly carried. (Long story short, I lost. But only by a percentage point.) I was met with smiles and cheers. People here actually like to see a candidate take a stand, even if they don't agree with the stand, at least they know you won't sacrifice your principles for political expediency.
Then again, I live in a very rural town in Idaho.

Would I carry openly in some of our larger towns? Probably not. Haven't yet... Except Sun Valley. Any time I drive through that nest of liberals, I always carry openly. I make it a point to stop somewhere and walk around a bit... I admit it. I get a vicarious thrill seeing all their liberal jaws drop! And not a thing they can do about it.

So I guess this puts me firmly in the camp of those Virginians.
 
many facets...

Much has already been covered...

Some salient points.

Open carry is legal in Virginia; no law prohibits it. At times, there have been local ordinances prohibiting it, but they went bye-bye. Virginia has had a permit system since 1942, and has been open carry legal since about 1950. VA Constitution was amended in 1971 to add to Article 1, Section 13 "Therefore, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".
In 1995, Virginia joined the "shall issue" bandwagon, but in so doing, Senator Mims and several cohorts joined to prohibit concealed firearms in restaurants that serve alcohol. Part of the testimony included Fairfax Commonwealth's Attorney Robert Horan proclaiming "There's no need for concealed carry, open carry is perfectly legal."
With the Virginia Constitution prohibiting infringement of citizens bearing arms, comes individual protection as defined in more than a few significant court cases dealing with state constitutions - NOT the 2nd Amendment, that is a Federal issue. The General Assembly has been lobbied every year since 1995 to repeal the ban on concealed carry in Restaurants, but it has been defeated each time. The restaurant association opposes concealed carry, but strangely hasn't come out in opposition to open carry. Another interesting point; firearms are not prohibited in the Capitol in Richmond, and it is not an uncommon site on "Lobby Day" to see citizens and law enforcement, open carrying in complete harmony with the Delegates and Senators. Even when the GA was in the hands of the Democrats, this was not a problem and, will continue to be a non problem.

Enough with the history... Are Virginians right to open carry? Is the alternative disarming, or concealing. If disarming is the alternative, carry open. It beats leaving a gun in your car. What do you do on your motorcycle? If concealing is the alternative, then why not? You pay your $50, why not use it?

There are places which my moral compass would prevent me from open carry. One might be an outdoor anti-gun event like the MMM's. Why provoke a confrontation? Besides, by concealing, I would be able to get much more valuable information from the 10 or so Anti-gun Virginia residents.

From what I've observed any 'tactical' issue of open carry as contrasted with concealed carry is a complete wash about 80% of the time. Most folks just don't notice, and most of the ones who do don't care. Of the ones who do notice and do care, the ones who approach you are 90% likely to be in support. Of the ones who do notice, do care, and do approach you, and aren't supporting you, 90% are not sure you're legal. The people left over are the 10 Virginians that don't like guns.

So, about 20% of the time, you're going to stick out, sometimes like a sort thumb, open carrying. In those cases, it's best to conceal, but the rub is, knowing when those cases will come up ...

How fortunate we are in Virginia, that we even have this debate. Folks in Maryland are not so lucky.
 
Molon Labe said: "Go ahead and open carry all you want. It matters not what other people think. It matters not what the government thinks. You have a natural right to open carry, and that's that.

Go ahead and conceal carry all you want. It matters not what other people think. It matters not what the government thinks. You have a natural right to conceal carry, and that's that."


I agree and concur. Btw SW Ohio? Where? I graduated from Fairfield HS('76), I have family in Hamilton.

Btw, Virginia is a Commonwealth (as is Ky and some New England State), so the rules are different. Besides, why open carry, except to make the statement that ,"My **** is bigger than yours." You can exercise your right to keeep and carry and bear arms , concealed and get the added benefit of surprise, which has one more than one battle.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top