OMG! Everyone PLEASE read.

[.45FMJoe]

****! Everyone PLEASE read.

OK, first to start off, my heart is going at about 100000 beat sper second. If my typing is sporadic its because I'm still calming down.

OK, I was just out for my nightly hour long run (I need to make a little room in my pants waist for an NRM Colt 1991.) Now, I had my headphones on and was listening to "Locomotive Breath" by Jethro Tull and I was running my usual route through the neighborhood. As I'm tooling along all the sudden I hear a dark barking and growling so ferociously I almost tripped over myself. I then turned my head to the left in time to see a big, black dog running full steam towards me snarling and growling up a storm. I, without even thinking, started to slowly step back as he had slowed down himself about 25 feet away from me. I thought if I slowly backed away, he would leave me be. Wrong. He kept following me, growling and snarling as loud as ever. I turned and saw a blue plastic recycling tub at the foot of someone's driveway. I immediately ran for it, picked it up and turned towards the dog. I had to weapon, I figured I could improvise. Then, I thought...I've got a decent lead on him ... he hasn't moved much. I dropped the recycling tub and ran just as fast as God would allow me. I have never run so hard or fast in my life. I was already hurting and had slowed down as I was nearing the end of my walk. I ran so, so fast with my head up, back straight and arms swaying as to grab the air and pull me along faster. I looked back to see the dog following me. He must have chased me for a good 100 yards and then he backed down, seemingly uninterested in killing or harming me anymore. I continued to run just as fast as I can for about 1/4 mile back to my house and just got off the phone with 911 before I started typing this.

Now, big deal you might say. Dog chased you, wow. NO, please listen. I am a CWL holder in FL and carry daily. I either carry my Kel-tec P-3AT or Colt Gov't .380 on my person and have a Taurus PT-940 in my car. I would carry a fullsize .45 but I don't have the room in my pants to spare. Now, the point to my thread is I will never go running without my Kel-tec again. I will never run back in the neighbor hood this dog was in, but I will keep running. What I realized tonight was how quickly he bore down on me and how helpless I was. If I was carrying my Colt, it would have been round chambered, hammer down safety off. I will always carry it C&L now. I believe I will send my P-3AT back to KEl-tec for a fluff and buff so it feeds HPs reliably and carry it with me while running.

Now, the police officer that was dispatched just knocked on my door. He said he didn't see the dog but would go back out and look after I explained just what had happened. I also told him I think I should carry some pepper spray or something with me. He looked at me and said "I run with a gun." I thought about it, and said "I have a concealed weapons permit and a kel-tec .380. I'm going to run with a gun too."

The point to this is not about running and dogs it IS about carrying safely but in a manner that would allow you to react to a threat instantly. I might have been able to cock the hammer of my Colt, but with my mind racing, adrenaline pumping and my mind going HOLY SH$%, I don't think so. All of you who carry without one in the hole and say I'll just practice unholstering and chambering...those precious seconds could mean being attacked by a rabid animal, a human with a knife or being shot. Now, that was about the ultimate test of my situational awareness, reaction time, action under stress and problem solving. I couldn't see the dog as he was all black, the street lights were uber dim and he was behind bushes. However, as soon as I heard him, I reacted and I believe I reacted in a manner that saved me from at very leasst being mauled. I don't know what his intentions were, but they did not look friendly by any means. To be honest, I wasn't even scared until after the fact. My mind took over and I ran for cover and looked for a weapon. In this case a rubbermaid recycling bin. I'm sorry if I seem high and mighty but I'm very proud of the way I handled myself under pressure. Please think, people...This may or may not have been a life threatening event. At any rate, a dog bite by a stray would still lead to hospitalization. Please don't any of you fall because you think you can practice racking a slide in .00000000001 seconds. In this case the dog was already charging me before I saw him. Think about this. For all my 1911 bretheren, keep it cocked and locked. For all my DA/SA people, keep it hot. Most of all, be safe.

P.S. The Garand, M4, 590, 1911-A1, Gov't .380, Kel-tec, and all of my other guns did me absolutely ZERO good being locked up at home.

And now animal services is coming to pick me up so I can show them where it was becasue the cop called it off saying he couldn't find the dog and I was unco-operative. details at 11.

 

[Preacherman]

Thanks for posting this. Valuable lessons learned!

 

[Carbonator]

Wow, glad you're ok. I think you did everything right, with or without the gun.

Interesting though - if you were packing, would you have acted differently, like not have tried as hard to avoid firing? Though the dog was not a human, would you still have used every chance of escape from the threat to avoid using your gun, even though it was "just a dog"?

 

[Tim Wilson]

Glad you're ok.

However:

If I was carrying my Colt, it would have been round chambered, hammer down safety off.

It actually would be safer to be cocked with the saftey off, at least that way you've got the grip saftey in play and you don't have the hammer against the firing pin against the primer.

 

[Oleg Volk]

Jogging with guns has some interesting issues:

1. Get a good holster or use a very light gun. Otherwise, off-center weight will hurt your back. I used to jog with a Kel-tec P32, then a Kahr P9. Better holsters allow comfortable jogging with a Glock 17 or 23.

2. When your heart rate is up, when you are tired, you may find it hard to aim steadily or even stand steadily. A baton may be a better tool in some cases. However, if you practice shooting after excercise, you will know how to compensate for the fatigue and high heart rate.

3. Use a holster which retains well...else you might lose the gun.

4. Remain aware of your surroundings. A running person is less stable than a walking one. Ending up in a contact fight won't go well.

 

[.45FMJoe]

Idiot! It actually would be safer to be cocked with the saftey off, at least that way you've got the grip saftey in play and you don't have the hammer against the firing pin against the primer.

No, silly. No griup safety. I would have been carrying my Gov't .380 not my WWII repro. This is why I'm running everyday to lose some weight so I can buy an NRM 1991 and carry it everyday IWB.

 

[.45FMJoe]

Wow, glad you're ok. I think you did everything right, with or without the gun.

Interesting though - if you were packing, would you have acted differently, like not have tried as hard to avoid firing? Though the dog was not a human, would you still have used every chance of escape from the threat to avoid using your gun, even though it was "just a dog"?

I would like to say no. I would have drawn, but not fired unless I absolutely had to. Remember with our stupid liberal laws, you are put through the ringer regaurdless. I would have still backed away and attempted to run. God was on my side tonight. However, if I WAS packing and I could NOT outrun him...let's just say I'd be a couple $ richer after dropping his deceased canine a$$ off at the local Vietnamese restaurant.

 

[.45FMJoe]

So, now for the update.

Animal control called me and said that the police officer cancelled the call because I was "un-cooperative". She handed me her pager so I could see the message myself. Funny, said I, I told him everything and he was the one who was in a great hurry to leave. Lazy S.O.B.

So I hopped in my truck and they followed me to the house. She said that there is a dog who lives directly across from where he jumped out at me that bit a girl rollerblading last year. I described the dog as best I could and she said she would be back tomorrow to talk to both homeonwners. If the it turns out to be the same dog that bit the girl, she will ask me to identify it and then write the owner a citation. I will very politely explain to the owner that his gross negligence could very well have cost him his dog had I been carrying. I do believe in that situation I would have been justified in shooting. Even the animal control officer told me to carry an "object" while running because I have every right to defend myself.

So, we shall see what becomes of this tomorrow. I'm just happy I'm not in Tampa General Hospital getting a tetnis shot in the stomach and some bandages, ya know?

 

[Topgun]

All dogs se habla "STICK!"

EVERY time I walk OR my wife walks OR we walk together, we take our "stick." It's a stout cherry shillelagh and very handy. I have CCW but have no desire to try to shoot a dog in a populated area. I would DO it but prefer to use the stick. All you have to do is RAISE it and every growly mutt I have met decides there are better legs to hump elsewhere.

I also believe I have read where one should "stand ground" in the face of a dog attack and not try backing or running. Standing ground with a stout stick says bye bye to Bowser.

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

Glad you are OK. Were the Nikes on fire?:banghead:

You did good, and got a great workout.

I have outrun a few dogs, because they are usually territorial. Wild/feral dogs, on the other hand, are not.

 

[Ky Larry]

I killed a pit bull several years ago with a 12 gauge pump with #OO buckshot. The dog had already bit neighbor a few minutes earlier and was running loose in the neighborhood. The dog was between me and my 4 year old neice so I grabbed my shotgun and ran at the dog yelling at the top of my lungs. The dog came growling and running at me. At about 15 yards I dropped to my knees and fired. On shot was all it took. If you have to fire at an animal coming directly at you, drop to your knees or you may overshoot. Hope you don't ever have to.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

OMG A Dog?

LMAO!!
Postal workers in every city manage to avoid the use of firearms with a simple thing called pepper spray!

 

[.45FMJoe]

LMAO!!
Postal workers in every city manage to avoid the use of firearms with a simple thing called pepper spray!

Couldn't resist being a male sex organ, huh? I don't care if it was only a dog. It was a nasty mofro. Personally, I don't want to get close enough to be able to use pepper spray.

Besides, I already made the point that the post was more about HOW you carry. How quickly situations appear.

 

[DJ E.]

Hmmm...glad you're okay! I wouldn't want to be in a hospital either getting a bunch of shots and/or stitches.

Ky-Good advice on dropping to the knees, I've never even thought about that...

DJ

 

[George Hill]

I think I'd go "running" with a T-bone hanging around my neck and a .44 Magnum under my shirt.

 

[.45FMJoe]

Yes, indeed KY....Thanks for the advice. You never know, it might come in handy.

and George...that was like the funniest thing I've read today. lol

 

[sgt127]

"I will never run back in the neighbor hood this dog was in, but I will keep running."


I would run back in that neighborhood.

 

[BluesBear]

Tim Wilson, first let me say "Welcome to THR"

Second thing, we don't call each other idiots around here.

Third, Colt uses an inertia firing pin. That means when the hammer is down, even though the firing pin is pressing against the hammer it is NOT, repeat NOT touching the primer.

Older or non-series 80 or 90 Colts are safe to carry in condition two (hammer down on loaded chamber) UNLESS you drop them on the muzzle. A muzzle drop with the hammer cock is usually no problem unless you have a weak FP spring. A muzzle drop with the hammer down will make it go boom.

Of course a Series 80 or 90 can be safely carried condition two since the firing pin is blocked from forward movement unless the trigger is pulled.


Once again, Welcome aboard. (Pun intended)

 

[.45FMJoe]

oh and thanks DJE for the nice words

 

[BluesBear]

45FMJoe, glad you're OK.

Dog bites are NOT fun. Glad you were aware.
Thundering Madness kinda sums it all up huh?
LB is my fav Tull tune.


Porter Rockwell,

Well it's obvious that you have never used OC against an angry St Bernard.

I have, didn't work, wanna see the scar?

Ever see anyone OC a Pit Bull?

I have, didn't work, took THREE .41mag 175 gr full wadcutters to stop it.

The woman with her 5 year old daughter, who were walking their poodle now knows OC ain't the be all end all it was advertised to be.

And if Postal Workers think OC is all that great why do they shoot each other with 9mm?

 

[.45FMJoe]

So I've been searching for pics of dogs that resemble it. I'm thinking it might have been a mutt with perhaps some pitbull.

All black, white tuft of hair on the chest. Very stout, and stood firm. Very long black tail that curved at the end. I'd guess no more than 40 pounds max. It's face reminded me of my cousin's pitbull, though. Also had white around it's mouth. All I know is I wanted nothing to do with it. Thankfully I was able to get away safely and I learned a valuable lesson.


And Blues, thanks for the words, brother.

Yeah, I still get funny looks at stoglights....Imagine me - a 22 year old male, white, short black hair spiked in the front, glasses, always wearing a Yankees hat. Driving my zx3 focus with both windows down, the sunroof open blaring such classics as "Hotel California," "Bad Company," "Stairway to Heaven," "Locomotive Breath" you get the idea. It's humurous to say the least.

 

[BluesBear]

What's that old saying?

Good taste is always in Fashion.

Except for a Yankees hat, that is.

 

[rayjay]

I KNOW what he went thru. I was walking around a neighborhood where I used to live and got jumped by a pitbull. The pitbulls owner was standing on the front porch watching me walk along on the side walk. The dog was raising hell barking at me so I guess the owner thought it would be funny to unleash the dog and watch him chase down the street. I seen the dog coming across the lawn at me. So reflex kicks in and I take off running. I managed to get to a garbage can and use it like a sheild. It worked for a few seconds. As I was playing ring-around-the-rosy with the pitbull I noticed the owner and a few friends were now standing in the front yard pointing and laughing at me. I yelled for the owner to call off his dog 3 times but no dice. I guess he was laughing to hard. I desided to use lethal force. I managed to smack the dog over the head with the garbage can and send him back a few steps. I reached into my fanny pack removed my S&W 5906 9mm and pointed it at the dog. Now training kicks in and I'm now ordering the dog to get on the ground, yes I realized this fact 2/10th of a second after I ordered the dog to the ground. The pitbull starts to come at me and I fire two rnds. One round hits in the middle of his back and the other round hits under his nose and thru bottom jaw. Dog goes down and starts yelping. I get on my cell phone call 911 tell them what happened. When the police show up the pitbulls owner said it wasn't his dog and tried denying the whole thing. Two other neighors comfirmed my story and the owner was arrested for assault. If I didn't have a weapon with me I believe the dog would have tore me a new one. I'm glad there was only one dog, if there were 2 or more I would have really been in trouble. If you are out running, jogging or walking, take your weapon because you never know. It's better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it.

 

[BluesBear]

Dang Rayjay too bad you didn't have some pepper spray.

Good thing you had Smith, Wesson and a few witnesses.

 

[Lennyjoe]

Think after that I would run with a sidearm too.