Once I bolt the safe down how do I move it?

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eazyrider

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I am getting a Cannon gun safe today and I want to bolt it down to the concrete in my garage. I researched how to do this but my question is this. Once down what if I decide to move? Are all anchor system reversible? Because I really don't see how the hammer set will ever come out. I will probably not stay in my house forever so what system will allow me to move it again? I have virtually no experience drilling into concrete but I figured out I need a hammer drill and all that but this one little problem I can't seem to find an answer to. I guess I am looking for some real world advice.
 
Upgrade to new, bigger, safe when you move. Give the combo to the old one to the people that buy your house.
 
I've moved mine. You just have to empty it out, pull up the flooring and put a socket over each bolt and hook up the power drill in reverse. Once all bolts are out (and they are long), pry bars and big friends or a "Hebrew trolley" of heavy pipes that you roll it to it's new home with.
 
I use the Redhead anchors often to anchor various equipment and yes, once in place the 5/8 ones I use have a 17000 pound pull out strength, are there to stay. We use an angle grinder with a carbide cutoff disk to cut them flush with the slab.

P.S. If you use hammer set type with heads, I guess you'll be grinding inside your safe to get the heads off.
 
Basically -

Set the safe in place where you want it, triple-check the location for access, door-swing, clearance, etc. Go down through the holes in the safe bottom and mark the floor with a Sharpie so the holes in the safe will line up with the holes in the floor.

Mark an outline around the bottom of the safe on the floor with the Sharpie, so you can re-align the safe back into the same position much easier. At least mark outlines at the corners of the base, all the way around isn't necessary. Move the safe out of the way.

Drill holes in the concrete floor, vacuum out the dust with a shop-vac, and put anchors in the holes. Use a rotary hammer, not a hammer drill. You'll need to rent the rotary hammer and bit, but you'll be glad you did. The two tools are very different, by orders of magnitude.

You should also "set" the anchors by tightening them up and expanding them in the holes, so they're "anchored" and ready to go. If you don't do this, they're likely to just spin around in the holes when you try to bolt the safe down, and this will make you gnash your teeth and talk ugly.

Ask at the store about anchors, explain what you're doing and the size of the holes in the bottom of the safe. A competent salesman should be able to give you the right anchors.

Then put the safe back into position, make sure the holes in the base are lined up over the holes/anchors in the floor, put the bolts down through the holes and into the anchors, and tighten them up. Use flat washers under the bolt heads. DON'T put any LockTite on the bolts! Not needed, and you won't be able to remove them later.

Should you decide to move the safe, all you have to do is remove the bolts, and you'll just leave the anchors in the floor.

I've been drilling concrete and mounting racks of telecom equipment like this for 25 years, works very well.
 
rondog said:
Ask at the store about anchors, explain what you're doing and the size of the holes in the bottom of the safe. A competent salesman should be able to give you the right anchors.
Click to expand...

Don't expect much Knowledge if you shop at Home Depot. They definitely make stuff up there. You know, to sound knoweldgeable. Call REDHEAD directly and talk to them. My anchors are driven below flush with the floor surface and the safe bolted in. To move, simply "unbolt" the safe, move it wherever you like, and patch the holes (with anchors still embedded) with cement.
 
Rondog I don't get it. How do I set the anchors tighter if I am not putting the bolts in? Maybe I didn't read that right.
 
I think he means that you should put the bolts in and tighten them enough to spread the anchor a bit before you put the safe back in place. This way you can make sure they won't spin and force you to move the safe again. You know it will be the last anchor that spins if you don't.
 
My guess is that Rondog is using a style of anchor that uses inserts and bolts, as you've probably figured out by now there are lots of designs of anchors. With such an insert you would install the insert put the bolt in with a flat washer under it and preset the anchor, remove the bolt then set your safe over the holes and reinstall the bolts. You can minimize the tendency of inserts spinning in the hole by putting a little grease on the threads of the bolt as well. He offered good advise on the hammer drill too, very frustrating trying to drill concrete with an under powered tool. Rent a big one.

Pate beat me to it, with interruptions my posts can take upwards of 30 mins.
 
A standard hammer drill will work just fine. I've done at least four safe placements this way.

Place the safe, remove flooring. Dril through the holes in the safe floor...drill 1 1/2 times as deep as your screws are long. Pound in Redheads, secure with nut.

Redheads look like this:

092097401815lg.jpg

Available at Lowes/Home Depot.

Only thing to be careful of is how far down you drill. Some slabs are post tensioned type and/or not very thick. Last thing you want is to drill all the way through.

When time to move it, open door, remove everything including the floor panels. Remove nuts, pound bolt heads flush with concrete. Slide safe out of the way. Super easy.
 
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Use drop-in concrete anchors. Here is a video of some old guy installing one. Some of his advise sucks, like 'the more you it, the better", etc. but shows you what I'm talking about.

Do as advised get the safe in place, make sure everything is going to work with clearances, etc, mark the holes and outside corners. Move the safe out of the way, use a rotary hammer! Drill deep enough so the anchor is below the surface, this way you can fill the hole when you move. Clean out the holes, drop in the anchors, use the proper setting tool suggested by the manufacturer drive them as specified in the instructions. (Don't listen to the old fool in the video)

Get bolts of the proper size, grade and length, move safe back in place, insert bolts/washers, tighten, done.

When ready to move, just remove the bolts, then the safe. Get some grout and fill the holes.


Much easier than the bolt-type anchors (you don't have to lift the safe over the bolts) and only slightly less strength. The Red Head Multi-Set II RL are some tuff little suckers. Over my career, I have used ten of thousands of these in overhead piping installations that support thousands upon thousands of pounds, every minute of every day for decades upon decades!

Depending on anchor size and concrete strength, they have pull-out strength from 3,000-10,000 lbs each. Paired with the correct grade of bolt and good/heavy/thick washers, the safe won't be going anywhere!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSM2gsf6X1w&feature=related
 
I've set lots of pieces of machinery (and my gun safe). I use RedHeads and a hammer drill with the proper sized masonry bit. I drill all the way through the slab. That way when I have to move something, once I unscrew the nuts and move it, I can take a pin and hammer the RedHead down below the surface of the concrete and even drop it out the bottom of the slab if I want. Then patch the hole with some Quickrete or epoxy. The only other option is to cut them off with a cutoff wheel and then hammer them down as far as they can go.
 
NEVER use the bolt as a punch. Thread damage will occur. Notice in the video that the "finger tight" needed a wrench to remove.

....so much for safety glasses and hearing protection.

Bolt did not pop out, should answer any questions on being secure.
 
A standard hammer drill will work just fine. I've done at least four safe placements this way.

Place the safe, remove flooring. Dril through the holes in the safe floor...drill 1 1/2 times as deep as your screws are long. Pound in Redheads, secure with nut.

Redheads look like this:



Available at Lowes/Home Depot.

Only thing to be careful of is how far down you drill. Some slabs are post tensioned type and/or not very thick. Last thing you want is to drill all the way through.

When time to move it, open door, remove everything including the floor panels. Remove nuts, pound bolt heads flush with concrete. Slide safe out of the way. Super easy.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Click to expand...

Personally, I would NOT use something like this. Once they're in the floor, that's it. To move the safe, you'd have to lift it up off the floor enough to clear those things, and then be able to roll it away from them. How would you lift the safe off of those Redheads?

This is the kind of anchor I'm talking about. Drill the holes, drop them in, use a bolt and washers to tighten and expand them, remove the bolts, install safe. These anchors will be flush with the floor, or slightly below flush.

And yes, a regular buzz-bomb hammer drill will make little holes in a floor, but try drilling several serious 5/8" holes with a hammer drill, then try it with a rotary hammer. Use the right tools.
 

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rondog,

Anchors are subject to user preferences for sure...IME, redheads will work for most applications.

You DO NOT need to lift the safe off the bolt heads...let me quote myself from my earlier post:

When time to move it, open door, remove everything including the floor panels. Remove nuts, pound bolt heads flush with concrete. Slide safe out of the way. Super easy.
Click to expand...

I don't work with concrete all the time...nor do I feel like spending $200 plus for a rotary hammer that I use once every couple years (it's only used for securing the safe). A $60 hammer drill is adequate for any hole you'd need for redheads (I've got 1/2" by 4" readheads holding mine down).

I appreciate the pic and the info..I'll have to look into those anchors when I have to bolt it down next time.
 
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I just rent the rotary hammer and bit, I'd never buy one unless I had a need for one frequently. You can rent one for 1/2 day pretty cheap, less than buying a hammer drill for sure. And if you just use bolts, drop them through the holes in the safe bottom and screw 'em right into the anchors.

The anchors like I pictured are also called "expansion shields", but I don't why they're called that. That term might help in locating some. The more you tighten the bolts, the more those things grip the hole in the concrete.
 
Most of the stuff anchored down in my shop was done with lag shields - readily available from Home Depot, Lowes, etc. They install flush with the floor, and you drive a lag screw down in to them. Very easy to remove (just unscrew 'em), and nothing sticking up from the floor.

When I first built my shop, and the concrete was only a few weeks old, I drilled a bunch of 3/4" holes for some wedge anchors to hold down a two-post lift. Since the concrete was still "soft", my 24V DeWalt hammer drill and 3/4" masonry bit made short work of the holes, no problem.

Fast-forward 3 years, with the concrete all nice and cured... now installing a 4-post lift. I burned out my drill motor on the 2nd hole. A $50 rental of a Bosch SDS rotary hammer and bit bored out the remaining 14 holes in no time flat.
 
Shimitup had the answer.
There are other options such as drop ins which may work, but why complicate things.
If bolts are removed and the safe is relocated you can fill the hole with grout and carpet or tile over it easily enough.


" Shimitup
Member



Join Date: February 27, 2009
Location: Houston
Posts: 121 I use the Redhead anchors often to anchor various equipment and yes, once in place the 5/8 ones I use have a 17000 pound pull out strength, are there to stay. We use an angle grinder with a carbide cutoff disk to cut them flush with the slab.

P.S. If you use hammer set type with heads, I guess you'll be grinding inside your safe to get the heads off. "
 
RedHead wedge anchors only grip the hole when they are under tension. That's why I drill the hole through the slab if possible, or as deep as I can, and with a Milwaukee hammer drill and carbide bits I can go right to the Jacobs chuck if I want to. We used a lot of big anchors in the 5/8 and 3/4 range- the 8.5" ones were common- plus the small stuff.

31K1DARQCwL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

When you are done with the anchor- moving the safe let's say- unscrew the nut, then take a pin and pound the shaft of the anchor down into its own hole. No need to jack up the safe to clear the ends of the studs, no need to grind or cut anything. The collar will push back on the shaft and the whole thing can be driven down easily. That's why I drill through the slab or at least as deep as the length of the anchor plus a bit more.

I used to set a LOT of industrial machinery in factories- robots, conveyors, production fixtures, trash compactors, tanks- I always used RedHeads and drilled as deep as I could and rarely had to angle-grind stuff I had set. Other guys' anchors, they got lazy and only drilled far enough to set the anchor, yea, those had to be cut. Or the epoxy-set ones. Those had to be cut too.
 
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