One Dillon 650, or several Lee Loadmasters?

[jmorris]

A list of presses used by world champion shooters could be entirely irrelevant for an average joe. He may not have the same quantity/time constraints

From the OP

Shooting 500 rounds each of several calibers during a weekend with the wife and friends will be pretty normal after getting a good press.

26,000 rounds a year (minimum in one caliber not to mention "each") will cost (a lot) more than any press and take a good while to load on the best machine. Why start with something not meant for the job (or at the least a "good press")?

Maybe a good reality check for the OP, 20,000 plated 9mm 147 grain bullets (only) at dealer price is over $1600 why bust butt to load them , and piles of others on a $200 machine?

 

[gspn]

From the OP



26,000 rounds a year (minimum in one caliber not to mention "each") will cost (a lot) more than any press and take a good while to load on the best machine. Why start with something not meant for the job (or at the least a "good press")?

Maybe a good reality check for the OP, 20,000 plated 9mm 147 grain bullets (only) at dealer price is over $1600 why bust butt to load them , and piles of others on a $200 machine?

Thanks...he didn't have volume figures in his first couple of posts so I had no idea how much he inteded to shoot.

That is a lot of reloading...and given the cost of the components he probably won't flinch at the quoted costs associated with caliber changes on the Dillon.

Speed is definately your friend when pushing volumes like that. If you are shooting 500 a week times four calibers you're looking at 2,000 rounds a week times 52 weeks in a year...or 104,000 rounds per year.

If you have a press that will knock out 1,000 per hour you're looking at 104 hours per year just pulling the handle...not to mention sorting brass, buying and dealing with components etc.

Sounds like you might need 4 Dillons and three friends!

 

[zxcvbob]

I want to stick with an auto indexing progressive. The Loadmasters can be picked up with dies and all, ready to use for under $250. The 650 is about $550, no dies. $100 for the quick change kits, still no dies.......
I don't mind a little tinkering, I own an auto repair shop, and am a pretty handy fellow.
I will make my batches 1000 rounds per session

No offense intended, but do you already know what you are doing? If now, how will you know *how* to tinker it?

I have a Hornady LNL-AP and I like it... sort of... but it's more fiddly than I'd prefer. I should have bought a Dillon SDB since I already have a single-stage press for loading rifle cartridges and weird stuff.

 

[Bush Pilot]

Why is it you hear more horror stories associated with Lee presses than all other brands combined? How many times have you read a post about starting out with a Dillon and getting rid of the "piece of junk" to buy a Lee? Have you ever noticed a lack of used Dillon presses at gun shows while there always seems to be plenty of used Lee equipment?

 

[zxcvbob]

I have more Lee equipment than everything else combined, but I wouldn't buy one of their progressive presses. Single stage or turret press? No problem.

 

[Adamsstreet]

I am not new to loading, just looking for a big step up from single stage use. I don't have a problem tinkering or fabricating parts. I have several lathes, presses, and all the tooling to make them work. I am not new to making mechanical things better than they were designed to be. With that said, 4 Loadmasters, once functioning could theoretically be the same price and function as one 650 and kits to make every caliber change.

We have already established the Dillon is the superior machine, and that will likely be the way I go, unless another option falls in my lap for the right price.

We shoot a lot as is, and will just shoot more with our own ammo at a lower cost.

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

How many times have you read a post about starting out with a Dillon and getting rid of the "piece of junk" to buy a Lee?

Maybe in an alternate universe.

Have you ever noticed a lack of used Dillon presses at gun shows while there always seems to be plenty of used Lee equipment?

I recently talked with a used reloading dealer who sells on EBay. He said he almost never gets Dillon equipment and when he dies get them, they go for premium prices. He won't touch Lee as they have no resale value.

 

[dbarnhart]

>>>Have you ever noticed a lack of used Dillon presses at gun shows while there always seems to be plenty of used Lee equipment?<<<

Not trying to deliberately be a contrarian, but right now I'm seeing Dillon presses show up on Backpage every week but I never se a Loadmaster (or a Hornady LnL-AP) for sale.

I don't think that's a reflection on the press, just a reflection of the economic times.

 

[RandyP]

If the OP is indeed shooting 2000 rounds per week? Good on ya mate! You should have an impressive collection of your own once fired brass at this point and obviously have a different 'need' (and much thicker wallet) than a whole lot of us average recreational shooters who do not spend 6 figures on just ammo each year.

Lee products have never been designed as apples to apples competition to presses costing 3-5 times as much. Who'd a thunk it? LOL Next you'll be telling me that the Chevy Aveo was not made to directly compete with the Lamborghini Aventador?

For MY realistic wants, needs and budget the Lee Classic 4-hole is a perfect match. It would not be so for the OP's. IF I were ever needing the output of a progressive (lucky me) I would not hesitate to look at the Loadmaster first, heck for $220 (which includes dies and a case feeder) I'd buy one just to try it out for snicks and giggles and to then be able to mock those who bought one and were not clever enough to figure out how to get it to work. I LUV a good challenge - LOL

 

[joed]

Do you want to spend your time loading or tinkering? You don't have a bad idea on multiple presses but caliber change overs aren't all that bad.

I've kind of done the same thing having a 650 for small primer and a 1050 for large primer rounds. But, truth be told the 650 isn't that hard to change the primer setup on. I'd bet no more then 20 minutes at most for a complete change. I could easily live with one press and have been thinking about selling one of mine to keep things simple. At the time I had 2 presses I was loading 2 to 3 thousand rounds a week. I'd bet I'm presently loading 2000 per week on the 650.

I'll add one other thing for you to think about. Look at what a used Dillon press sells for and look at a used Lee. Should you ever decide to quit reloading you'll get your money back on the Dillon. Think I may have paid $390 for my 650 and that was 7 years ago, look what they sell for now.

 

[jmorris]

I am not new to loading, just looking for a big step up from single stage use. I don't have a problem tinkering or fabricating parts. I have several lathes, presses, and all the tooling to make them work. I am not new to making mechanical things better than they were designed to be. With that said, 4 Loadmasters, once functioning could theoretically be the same price and function as one 650 and kits to make every caliber change.

Ahh, a machinist, how about you can make a Lee as good as a Dillon the same way you could make a harbor freight lathe as good as a Haas.

 

[Bush Pilot]

Ahh, a machinist, how about you can make a Lee as good as a Dillon the same way you could make a harbor freight lathe as good as a Haas.

Christmas miracle?

 

[EddieNFL]

but I never se a Loadmaster

My conscience wouldn't let me sell mine.

 

[Adamsstreet]

Shooting won't be every weekend, mostly weather permitting. We tend to get a lot of snow for the first 3 months of the year. Price of components to load and shoot that often is not an issue, its not all coming out of one income. I did mention the wife and friends in my number of 500 rounds of several calibers.

Pretty sure the 650 will be ordered this week, along with the works to get started with at least 2 or 3 calibers. If everything goes to plan, we can be shooting our own rounds in the near future.

 

[Metal Tiger]

Adamstreet,

With the volume of rounds you, your wife and friends go through, your choice of a reliable Dillon 650 will serve you well. You should be able to fill your shooting needs without spending several days to do it.

Good luck with your choices and let us know how it’s going.

 

[thump_rrr]

And FWIW, take a look at the Hornady LNL-AP before you get the 650.

I have the Hornady LnL AP Progressive with case feeder and bullet feeder and it takes nearly 25 minutes to go from a small primer rifle cartridge to a large primer pistol cartridge when all is said and done including converting and adjusting the powder measure, case feeder, priming system, and shell plate.
Purchasing a complete powder measure including linkage costs 50% of the price of a second press so your idea may not be that bad at all.

I know an old school gun shop owner who has 3 loadmasters set up the way you want to and he swears by them.

 

[helotaxi]

Buy once, cry once.

Man, I hate that phrase. If there's any crying involved at all, you made the wrong purchase.

I have a Dillon 550. After buying it I wondered why I had been wasting time with something else. The design just works. Period. Any problems (from what I've heard, I haven't had any personally) a call to Dillon makes it right, forever. The no-BS lifetime warranty alone make the Dillon the way to go. I don't consider it drinking the koolaide when a company makes a superior product and has superior customer service, I consider it a wise purchase. No crying involved.

I've heard good things about the Hornady as well, but I don't personally have a use for auto-index or a case feeder (why I chose the 550 over the 650 in the first place).

 

[Muddydogs]

I would recomend the Hornady LnL over the Dillon as well. I am sure you have probably researched this to death and won't go wrong with the Dillon but for the price of the machine, price of caliber changes and easy of caliber changes I think the LnL is hard to beat. It takes very little time to switch calibers, I have not timed it and I just don't throw a shell plate on the press and dump in some powder when I do change but if thats your thing then I would say in less then 5 minutes you can change calibers. When I change I clean the grease off the shell plate and ram, regrease the new shell plate, inspect and clean the powder measure as well as the dies coming off the press and going on, and generally take care of my stuff. It probably takes 30 minutes or better for me to change over but then again I don't have problems while I am cranking out the rounds either.

 

[Muddydogs]

Man, I hate that phrase. If there's any crying involved at all, you made the wrong purchase.

I've heard good things about the Hornady as well, but I don't personally have a use for auto-index or a case feeder (why I chose the 550 over the 650 in the first place).

While I to hate the crying phrase I also don't understand your phrase about auto indexing. To load you have to advance the case to the next station so why not have it auto index instead of another thing your hands have to do? It makes no sense to me why you would not want auto indexing but then again I like the bullet feeder die also so all I have to do is feed cases and pull the handle, I feel that this is safer in the long run because I have more time to visually check powder levels and other press functions since I am not worried about getting a bullet on the case or indexing the shell plate.

 

[joed]

Shooting won't be every weekend, mostly weather permitting. We tend to get a lot of snow for the first 3 months of the year. Price of components to load and shoot that often is not an issue, its not all coming out of one income. I did mention the wife and friends in my number of 500 rounds of several calibers.

You may go nuts like I did when I got the first progressive. Same environment here, nasty for the first 3 months of the year. I kept ordering brass and stock piling ammo all winter. Looking back what I thought was a lot of money for brass then paid off in the long run.

 

[FlyinBryan]

I can make more ammo with a 650, in one hour, than you could on 4 load masters (1000 of them for that matter).

i dont have 4. just one. it definitely took some massaging to get it to run absolutely perfect, and i wouldnt suggest one for anyone that would not enjoy perfecting its indexing and priming.

as for your production being 4 times that of an l.m, that is indeed impressive.

the only timing ive done with mine was for batches of 100 which was right at 6 minutes flat. (100 because thats what my case feeder holds. i usually over fill the primer feeder just because the suggested 100 is less than half of the tray)

this puts yours at 400 per 6 minutes which is amazing.

 

[dnite]

Currently, I am only interested in loading for 4 pistol calibers, .380, 9mm, 40 S&W, and 45ACP. I would prefer to set up a machine for each caliber, and leave it set and ready for use. Space is not an issue, my bench is 20 feet long.
For similar money, I can get 4 Loadmasters, set up and ready to use, or one Dillon with all I need to handle the 4 calibers. Should I get 4 of the Lee machines, or just go Blue right now and say that was a silly plan?

I agree with Cfullgraf. Look at the SDB and multipul tool heads. I have a 650 that I use to load 45acp, I use the SDB to load 9mm but also have 40,10,38/357,45lc dies and tool heads.

I bought both machines used, the 650 first and the SDB because it was to cheap the sellers had all the extra dies.

Had I bought the SDB first I would not have bought the 650 unless I wanted to load rifle.
The Dillon cost a little more upfront but you will always get your money back.

dnite

 

[helotaxi]

While I to hate the crying phrase I also don't understand your phrase about auto indexing. To load you have to advance the case to the next station so why not have it auto index instead of another thing your hands have to do? It makes no sense to me why you would not want auto indexing but then again I like the bullet feeder die also so all I have to do is feed cases and pull the handle, I feel that this is safer in the long run because I have more time to visually check powder levels and other press functions since I am not worried about getting a bullet on the case or indexing the shell plate.

If I was in a tremendous hurry, your points might be valid. Since I'm not in a hurry, I like things simple. Auto-index, case feeder, bullet feeder, just more things to have to worry about and monitor and pay extra for. I have the bullet tray on the bench to the left of the press and the cases in a bin to the right. My left hand rests on the bullet tray and plays the role of a free bullet feeder and indexer. The right works the lever and plays the role of free case feeder. I don't need faster production than I am capable of. Loading 1k rounds in an evening is a relatively simple matter. Different strokes.

 

[David Wile]

Hey Helotaxi,

We may have different brands of progressive presses, but we both seem to have similar ideas on loading throughput goals - forget the case feeder, forget the bullet feeder. My press does auto index, and that is fine with me. I had been using auto indexing Hornady shotshell progressives for a good many years, so it was natural for me to use it on the metallic progressive. My hand work is a little different, too. I use my left hand to place the empty brass in the shell plate, and my left hand then places a bullet in the charged case. The empty cases and bullets are both to the left of the press. My right hand pretty much does nothing other than operate the handle.

Perhaps you and I could have a competition to see who can load the fewest rounds in an hour and still be satisfied with our production.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

To load you have to advance the case to the next station so why not have it auto index instead of another thing your hands have to do?

Because w/ the 550, it is easier to correct a mistake and continue to march than w/ a 650.

*If a primer fails to get seated, I just remove the charged case and re-prime the casing at the re-size station, then replace the charged case and continue.

*If a case fails to get charged, I remove the just-primed case, cycle the press to charge the case, then replace the primed case and continue.

Correcting those mistakes is harder to do w/ a 650.