One of my kids got killed this week.

[rust collector]

Thanks for putting a face on a statistic, Silverlance, and reminding us that every life is precious regardless of scholastic achievement, geography or age. We can't afford to shrug these off.

There's no knee jerk solution to a horror story like this. We've got to help kids understand the value of human life long before they get to this stage. That means good people have to be there for them as role models, friends and support. It seems to me that gangs grow in a vacuum of parental and social involvement.

We are challenged by this to get involved with and help the kids around us. The life we save may be our own, or someone very dear to us.

 

[Big45]

Originally posted by Hokkmike:

Quote:
and our own zealousness toward the RKBA demonize the other

I'm sorry. I don't see what A has to do with B here.

100% agree. I feel bad for the kid and the family. What does my fanatical zealotry of the 2nd Amen. have to do with anything?

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I feel both and after reading that.

 

[Erik]

The hispanic on black gang related violence is rising, with the objective being to force (all) blacks out of what are deemed hispanic gang turf, or turf the hispanic gangs desire as their own. It is racially motivated hate crime, and must be addressed as such.

It sounds as if your student is a recet casualty of it. I'm sorry for your loss.

 

[leadcounsel]

Truly sorry for the loss.

I'm certain to take some flaming, but I can't help question why "decent" folks in these communities don't either leave or fight back. Pack up your family and move someplace where there aren't gangs. There are zillions of small communities that would welcome folks if they truly aren't going to bring crime with them. The problem is that they often do bring crime with them and hence aren't welcomed.

Don't tell me about social-economic inopportunity. I grew up dirt poor; probably the bottom 5% in my small community. I had a single parent with two older siblings. She had only a high school education and in many years during the 1980's and 1990's didn't earn more than $5,000 or $10,000 in a year! Because of the system, however, even that little amount was too much money so she never qualified for any public assistance. Yet I did well in school and sports and went to an excellent private college (graduating with honors) and later law school, getting small grants and borrowing and working my way through.

And I'm a white male, probably the most discriminated class of people when it comes to special scholarships, loans, grants, token admissions, you name it... For a poor white family there is almost no sympathy out there.

So, yes, it is tragic that this boy died in what appears to be a gang related shooting. What is more tragic is that if his family would have taken some proactive steps to move the family out of a ghetto then this was easily avoidable.

The nonsense about not 'being able' to move is baloney. Ancestors of this nation moved across the nation over a period of weeks on horsedrawn carriages with all of their belongings, fighting illness and danger at every turn. Having moved a dozen times myself, I know it's not easy but it's very possible to just pack up your important stuff and strike off for someplace better. What in the world would KEEP people in such a crappy environment. Just move someplace safer and leave all the crime behind; it's that simple! I'm not suggesting that rural areas are immune from violence, but the facts of inner city life vs. rural life speak for themselves. Rural communities are much safer. By and large whites fled the inner cities because of the violence over the years and it seems like all decent folks would follow suit.

The gangs want all that turf... let 'em have it and kill each other off. Why stay and be subjected to all the drugs, prostitution and crime and violence?

 

[geekWithA.45]

Silverlance, thanks for posting that.

It's a good reality check that some in this community need to hear.

Sometimes, good people die through no fault of their own.

 

[another okie]

I'm sorry a good kid was killed. But, I don't remember anyone on this board ever suggesting someone was a bad guy just because they got shot. There's always some other fact that shows that they might not have been angels.


Did someone say this about the young man you are mentioning? I don't remember any such discussion, but if there was such a discussion, show us and we'll go to that thread and point out they were wrong.

In the case closest to me, every news article for three days quoted only the young man's family about how great he was. Finally we learned that he was in an "alternative" school, had an illegitimate child, was wearing an ankle monitor due to a conviction for illegally carrying a gun, and had several other arrests for selling drugs.

 

[Huddog]

My prayers and thoughts to the family and friends that cared for him. Your point is well taken.

 

[goon]

Sorry to hear this man.
I used to work with juvenile delinquents and one of their arguments to support all of their robberies, selling drugs, etc. was "Where I'm from everyone does this!"

But that doesn't stand up to logic. If that were the case no one would be willing to allocate tax money to locking little junior up when he repeatedly sells coke on the nearest street corner.
There are good people in inner cities too. It's just a pity that they seem to have forgotten the value of a good rifle and the will to use it.
Personally, I'd never live there just because of that. I can't imagine a real gang surviving long where I'm from.
The first drive by would probably result in a half dozen rednecks using their winchesters to turn their car into swiss cheese. That would be the end of the gang.
And personally, if questioned by the police I think a lot of details would get hazy for a lot of people.
It's just so stressful to remember what those offending rednecks looked like, especially with all that terrifying rifle fire...

Man, I wish those people would learn to fight back and "police" themselves.

 

[Greell]

That's terrible. It is a misery I hope I, and anyone else, may never know.

My thoughts go out to his family and you.

 

[R127]

That really sucks. The only consolation I could offer is that in the end we all know God makes things right.

I know exactly what you were talking about though. I myself lived most of my life in very bad neighborhoods. In fact on a few occasions I've gotten the "where are you from?" treatment but I was a lot luckier than Jamiel. I did lose several good people over the years this way including the son of a good friend from work who was randomly murdered by strangers while walking home from playing basketball with a friend on Christmas.

It is easy to lose perspective in a world so focussed on political correctness and reverse racism. People see higher crime rates amongst blacks and they see the scary black gangster and with everything else going on it's very easy to throw up your hands in disgust and to declare them all crime prone potential gang members. There is a real cultural crisis in the black community that centers on the gangster ideal. What people miss is that a very large portion of the black community is against that mess. It's a serious struggle that is going on because it is a real problem but yeah, it is important not to lose perspective and fall into the divide and conquer trap. I'm not saying we should all hold hands and sing coombayah but we should remember we are all Americans first and foremost.

 

[silverlance]

I'm not saying we should all hold hands and sing coombayah but we should remember we are all Americans first and foremost.

Indeed, but I would change that to:

I'm not saying we should all hold hands and sing coombayah but we should remember we are all fellow people first and foremost.

 

[DougDubya]

I have never found it in my quiver to demonize anyone who lived in the inner city and was a victim of unprovoked human predators. Because a small minority of a social group seeks to profit from petty territorial violence, entire communities suffer.

Silverlance, the young man you speak of was not a "rare" person. He was one of the quiet people ignored because of the flash and gaudiness of a fringe of violent predators who congregate where they know they will find prey - helpless beings who have had their natural defenses broken off and destroyed by "well meaning" governments.

I grieve for people like him, for the 4 year olds caught by stray bullets, or grandmothers sitting on their stoop.

There is an intellectual dishonesty among people when they say "they should move out." Why? Would you leave your home because ten people out of a thousand engage in roughneck activity, aided and abetted by poor civic leadership that finds self protection an abhoration and little desire to effect change because those snarling, sneering bangers give them excuse to call for more taxes and create more laws to justify their existence in the seats of power?

It's families like the Shaws who I demand that their Second Amendment rights be unfettered from abrogation. The cowardly toughs would not enforce their rule of the street if they knew every father and mother had a means to unseat them from their comfortable throne of skulls. In the kingdom of the blind, these myopic predators are kings because they have been stripped of their RKBA. Families with patriarchs or matriarchs with a rifle or shotgun would make these bangers flee to somewhere that they could reign without fear of retaliation, were not most of the cities where this violence occurred dependant upon the need for subjects, not self-sufficient citizens.

 

[antsi]

Silverlance,

I hate to disagree with you in a raw difficult time, but I think you're unfairly characterizing the discourse on gun boards and blogs.

I certainly can't remember any thread on THR where there was victim blaming in this kind of incident - a shooting of an innocent bystander - and certainly not victim blaming that was generally supported by the online gun owner community.

Where there often is some indignation expressed is when the "victim" was shot in a legitimate self defense shooting. There have been many cases where a violent criminal was shot in the very act of committing a violent crime, and yet people who knew him are quoted in the media saying what a great guy he was and how he was trying to get his life together, trying to cast blame on the shooter who was only trying to defend himself or innocent others. In such cases, I believe it is true that the "victim" was "victimized" purely as a result of his own violent antisocial behavior.

Condolences that your life was touched by such a loss, but I think your characterization of the "gun culture" especially as represented here on THR is unfair and a misrepresentation.

 

[Rich K]

Your point is well taken. My prayers for Jamie and his family, and also for you.God Bless and keep you all in His Mercy.

 

[hamourkiller]

Often on this board and others, I see a disturbing mentality, one supported regrettably by both our own fears and the all too willing accomodation of "the gun community". It is in posts that complain about "every kid who gets killed just happens to be an honor student", posts that scoff at reports that "the boy was not a gang member", and members who loudly proclaim that the entire inner city ought to be purged in a hail of righteous brimstone, because it is nothing but a cesspool of criminality and rot.

I find your post insulting to say the least! What a load of BS.
His community is responsible for it's condition! Not me!
So sorry he got killed, wish it had not happened and I never once thought otherwise!
Do go peddle your guilt else where.

 

[bloodedsky]

I'm glad to see I'm in the company of compassionate Americans who dip into their mammoth stores of honor and refrain to make judgmental comments regarding others until they know the full story!

A beautiful quote for us all: "Don't knock it 'til you rock it."

 

[lookn4varmints]

I'm sorry a good kid was killed. But, I don't remember anyone on this board ever suggesting someone was a bad guy just because they got shot. There's always some other fact that shows that they might not have been angels.

Did someone say this about the young man you are mentioning? I don't remember any such discussion, but if there was such a discussion, show us and we'll go to that thread and point out they were wrong.

AND

Often on this board and others, I see a disturbing mentality, one supported regrettably by both our own fears and the all too willing accomodation of "the gun community". It is in posts that complain about "every kid who gets killed just happens to be an honor student", posts that scoff at reports that "the boy was not a gang member", and members who loudly proclaim that the entire inner city ought to be purged in a hail of righteous brimstone, because it is nothing but a cesspool of criminality and rot.

I find your post insulting to say the least! What a load of BS.
His community is responsible for it's condition! Not me!
So sorry he got killed, wish it had not happened and I never once thought otherwise!
Do go peddle your guilt else where.

another okie and hamourkiller are right on! I was wondering if I, too, was reading the same post as everyone else for awhile. What a way for the OP to begin his/her post; with a boardwide insult!

 

[threefeathers]

I am so sorry. I am a teacher/coach and have lost over 25 students in my lifetime. I weap for all. One of my better wrestlers was killed in Iraq last year I do know what you are going through. Hang in there for the rest of them, you will be needed.

 

[Phoneman]

I live outside of Memphis. Murder capital of the United States. I see this scat every damn day. I've grown imune to it. Last week, 6 people, including one child were murdered in the same house. The survivor, a young child, was found by police with a knife protruding from her/his head! One of the victims was a known gang-banger. If you live by the sword........

 

[silverlance]

My post was meant to be a reminder of why we are the High Road, not an admonition.

"Often" does not mean always. For the most part, we at THR tend to reserve judgement, and take the high road. Hence, our membership here. Yet, even so - think of all the threads that get closed on a regular (albeit occasional) basis due to posters making dark assumptions about victims due to race, social strata, or (big one here) citizenship status? If you are convinced that you've never seen thinly veiled bigotry on this board, then I commend you. You are clearly a more forgiving soul than I.

The truth is, I myself have felt this way many times. To my own shame, my first thought when I heard that yet another (I think we are at #5 school-wide this year) black 17-year old boy had been shot, and that his father claims that he was not a gang member, was: "Sure. That's what they all say."

And I know I am not the only one to have felt this way. We hear a guy getting his dog killed by cops during a botched response to an alarm, and we hint darkly at JBTs and whether it is time to dig up the SKS we buried last year in the back yard. Then we hear about some girl getting shot 17 times by cops at a gas station, and we say, "Why do these people let their kids stay out at 2am on a monday night, anyway?"

Do you not see what I mean? If you don't, then I apologize, and my words are clearly not meant for you.

And by "you", I mean Antsi. The other two of you, Lookn4varmits and Harmourkiller, have been here only since December. Welcome to THR.

ETA: This is a quote from a post on Calguns, where I also posted this thread. The poster believes he is being sympathetic to good americans:

"And, a tragedy *most probably* perpetrated by illegals or spawn of illegals...murdering (again) an actual American citizen (and a child of a US soldier apparently)"

Here's another one, by a very well respected (respected by me as well) member of the same board:

Jamiel wouldn't have gone too far - maybe a store clerk. He still likely would've been a burden on the state since he had al the markings of underemployment.

 

[elderboy02]

Sorry to hear this. Hang in there friend.

 

[buck00]

That is terrible. I was a teacher/counselor of inner city kids years ago, and I still regret the ones I lost. You can't save them all.

 

[Dr.Who]

Very Frustrating and Sad!

 

[leadcounsel]

In response to another post, if it were just a few bad apples in a neighborhood then I would organize with other decent folks and fight the crime in the neighborhood (neighborhood watch, using the law enforcement, or more aggressive measures).

Unfortunately the gangs and their tactics, mainly hispanics and blacks, are pervasive in inner cities and it's impossible for citizens to legally fight back. They either join, accept it and suffer, or leave. Those are their realistic options.

I'm simply saying that if you cannot fight it, or if the prize isn't worth the battle (after all who WANTS to live in a slum?), then pack up and leave!

To keep this gun related, this illustrates the absolute need to keep the 2A alive and well for the individuals. If enough citizens began steathily fighting back and keeping quite about it to the police, I don't think law enforcement would spend too many resources tracking down who's "offing" all of the gang members.