One rifle for all occassions?

[ArmedBear]

if someone was banging my door down, a bolt-action rifle is the LAST thing I would want. I'd rather have a semi-auto .22 rifle.

I guess you never considered which gun will shoot through the door.

 

[Thernlund]

I guess you never considered which gun will shoot through the door.

Hold on tight kiddies... here we go!


-T.

 

[elChupacabra!]

Well, that's you. Your money, your life. I'd prefer a 1917 to a .22 any day of the week, and twice on Sundays. I'm also going to respectfully suggest that cover and concealment are important whether you're defending or advancing. Don't take my word for it, get some good training.

See if any qualified trainer disagrees. Hell, PM Jeff White or Larry Corriea, for instance. Ask them.

I don't disagree with any of your statements, but I was using sarcasm to point out the fact that BOTH of our choices listed here are grossly insufficient as home defense weapons.

As for advancing from cover or concealment, if you saw my apartment, you'd understand that there isn't much in the way of either between my bedroom door and the front door, and the island is pretty far out of the way. Basically I get out of bed and I'm looking right at the peep-hole, at the other end of the living room. Again, this is sarcasm.

This is not to suggest that only high-speed carbines and shotguns are useful as HD weapons, as, of course, the gun you have is the one you use.

But to suggest that a 1917 is a good rifle to fill the OP's request for a rifle that may do double-duty as a utility rifle and a HD gun, I think, is to miss the point a little.

 

[Matt304]

...but if you're going to just have ONE rifle and it positively CANNOT be an AR (which is, to me, probably your BEST choice), I say the M1A!

Nuff said. End of story. M1A

 

[elChupacabra!]

Please, let's get back on topic.

This isn't an argument about .22lr vs 303 British, and it certainly isn't an argument about shooting through doors.

 

[elChupacabra!]

Shirley - I'm up here - I see you keep extending your last post... we're continuing with more posts in this direction.

Now -

If you could have one rifle and only one rifle for all situations (i.e. home defense, plinking, hunting, really, awful, nasty bad day, zombie uprising, sentient machine uprising, foriegn invasion, etc.) what would you choose, and in what caliber?

I suppose that, reading this post listing home defense as a first choice, I tended to pick a weapon that would excel at that and fulfill the other roles as well, hence the M1A.

You seem to have worked from the other end, sacrificing utility at the HD front for hunting.

You're right, no one gun does all best, it depends on the individual's perspective.

So our perspectives are different.

So what? Can we be civil please? I'm trying to answer the OP's question honestly and sincerely. If I can assume you're doing the same, does this have to become a series of backhanded insults, ala "Don't take my word for it, get some good training" and "goat sucker" (which I KNOW is my name but I think you're intending in at least an unfriendly way).

Lets let this go please.

 

[vicdotcom]

deleted....

 

[JShirley]

But to suggest that a 1917 is a good rifle to fill the OP's request for a rifle that may do double-duty as a utility rifle and a HD gun, I think, is to miss the point a little.

Well, let's put it like this:

The 1917 is a better choice for all the things the OP asked than an AR-15. I personally believe it would also be a better choice than an M1A. I'm a big fan of the SLR/G1/FN FAL/STG-58, but I think my sporterized '03 is a better overall choice.

Why?

Well, I'm not an army. I'm fairly tough. I'm well trained. I'm determined. But I am a single man. I will never, Doug willing, attempt to go up against an entire squad of bad guys as close range. That's just suicide. So, I need to pick a tool that will let me do what I foresee needing to do. That would be hunting or defensive shots from point blank range to about 400 meters or so.

Now, I got lucky one day on a range, and made a 500 meter shot with an M4 with irons, so I'm pretty sure I stand a good chance of hitting a closer target using a .30-06 with a scope.

A good bolt gun will be easier for me to move well with, use well day to day when I'm not killing robot ninja zombie bears, and will be sturdy. The only thing is loses is high volume of fire in some apocalyptic scenario, when compared to an obsolescent arm like the M1A.

If you want to use something else, go for it. Don't imagine that your ultimate one-man-army rifle, however, is the best choice for you or the OP.
-----
Fair disclosure. Once upon a time, I wanted to find a single rifle that could be used to hunt, take on multiple targets at close range, or hit a gnat in the eye at 600 meters. I then spent years learning about firearms, and realized it was impossible to find a single firearm that could do all of these things well.

Edit- I'm sorry, I really wasn't trying to be rude, chupacabra (did I spell that right? That's the only reason I used English). I've just read a lot of posters lately who seem to believe they don't have to do things like use cover in their houses. I think we agree on a lot of the issues here.

John

 

[j_charles]

Alright kiddies. I leave the room for just one minute and look what happens...

I'm really enjoying this lively debate. I know it's impossible to factor in all variables and exceptions to the little rules, and such. I knew there would be a wide swath of opinions, but it certainly is getting the creative/imaginitive juices flowing.

As to some of the questions:

I'm not necessarily imagining a complete and total break down of society, like anarchy (as much fun as the twisted, rambo side of my brain thinks that is), but more like a slight breakdown in the system as we're used to it, such that staying off the forefront of society and being self-reliant (i.e. economic meltdown, war, etc disrupting food/goods supply) become the order of the day. This is where the hunting comes in (feed the family because food costs too much), defense (because crime goes through the roof), possible invasion by foreign entity (militia anyone? Horribly unlikely, but hey, why not?).

As far as ammo count... since I'm not imagining a video game with ammo power-ups, carry capacity is indeed limited, however only by your ability to carry/store it. Perhaps this is where common ammo comes in handy?

How much more difficult/time consuming is the stripping of a lever gun than a bolt action? How much more difficult to do in the field? I've never had experience with a lever.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

In the last decade or so, I've been through several TEOTWAWKI situations, from a series of hurricanes that knocked out all power when I was in Virginia, to an ice storm (that also knocked out power for a week) in Arkansas, to the Super Tuesday Tornado -- which knocked out power for a week.

The important things are protection (I have a basement with reinforced concrete walls and steel beams), shelter, food, water, heat and light. And based on experience, I can say I have a well-tested survival plan, and all the equipment I need.

I never needed a firearm in any of these crises -- but if I had needed one, I had plenty to choose from. Anything from an M1911, to a Model 70 Winchester, to an M1 Garand, to a Model 37 Ithaca pump.

 

[Caimlas]

For me, I'd say an accurized mini-30 (7.62) or mini-14 in 6.5 Grendel - assuming ammo availability. In wood, no dodads, just good iron sights.

I'd want a semi-auto in an intermediate caliber due to wanting to take all sorts of game, and possibly multiple critters in rapid succession and be able to perform home defense effectively. Don't see that being plausible with a bolt gun, though I'd select a rugged bolt gun in a similar caliber if semi-autos were off the table.

 

[elChupacabra!]

jshirley,

I think we can agree to disagree. I think that's the whole point of threads like this one - to collect various opinions and perspectives, provide the rationale, and let the OP (as well as everyone involved & reading) make their own educated decision based on the contributions of others.

Also, I do appreciate a good spirited debate, for what it's worth. Just in perspective.

And, for what it's worth again, I do think we share more in common than not, and where we differ, well that's what makes the world go round, diversity and all.

 

[nambu1]

Any bolt action rifle in 30/06 or 308.

 

[younganddumb]

ok I really don't understand your logic at all your forgeting about the one do it all gun that can complete all of your needs you can hunt with it defend your home with it and every thing inbetween its a ....



REMINGTON 870 get a couple barrels for it and ammo should be no problem

 

[Matt-J2]

M1 Carbine.

I know I say that a lot, but I really think it's useful and underrated. Works fine for HD. Can take deer size game within limits. Certainly works for the smaller stuff. Wouldn't use it on Elk, but they're isn't exactly an abundance of those here anyway. I certainly don't need the long range ability. It's nice, for sure, but I'd rather have the handling characteristics and ease of use at the short ranges where I'm more likely to have dire need of the weapon.

If I had to grab something off my rack right now then I'd grab my Mosin M44 and not feel bad about it one bit.

 

[vicdotcom]

REMINGTON 870 get a couple barrels for it and ammo should be no problem

Normally I would like this stance on the question, but it does leave out the long shot if you ever need it. Slug guns are availble but I would still prefer a rifle.

My vote is what a few others have said. A 308 Bolt action rifle preferably a carbine for better HD reasons and iron sights. Plentiful ammo. Easy replacement parts if needed. Low maintenance. Long shots/ short shots. But more importantly its reliable and durable.

 

[neviander]

I think we've all asked ourselves which gun we'd pick if stuck in the wilderness; as to which type: rifle, shotgun, handgun, autoloader, bolt action, etc., etc.
But if we're limited to rifles, everything I've read on here leads me to something chambered in .308 winchester. Short of plinking pine cones through 9 layers of sheet rock at 2 miles , I'd say the .308 is pretty well rounded...round

That .357 lever action, revolver combo is a good idea though, I like that.

 

[goon]

As has been noted, repeatedly , a bolt action suffers from a lower rate of fire than a semi-auto.
Can't argue that.
But I wonder if that couldn't be dealt with through training and practice.
Assuming that you can work the bolt fairly fast (which isn't much of a stretch of the imagination), it shouldn't be too hard to fire, cycle the action, and get on another close range target fairly quickly. I'd think that the difference between two well practiced individuals with one packing a Remington 700 and one an M1A might not be as great as we think it would by the time you factor in recoil and getting back on target.
The biggest difference is that even if you go with an Ishapore 7.62 Enfield, you still don't have as much ammunition and you probably won't be able to reload as fast. That might matter, it might not, but I tend to agree that any scenario in which you fire more than a few rounds is probably going to work out badly for you regardless.
And, I also second the notion that a centerfire handgun makes up for most of the weaknesses of a bolt action rifle.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

"as DW would never allow such weaponry into the home"

??????

No disrespect intended, but THAT is a problem--HOW can WE help you solve that problem first???? What educational resouces can we provide?

Have you looked at Oleg Volk's (also our kind host here) posters/propaganda/photography---MUCH of it relates to women and firearms.

http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/

Many of the most utilitarian guns are 'ugly' EBR's, etc. Remember, twenty years back many women didn't desire trucks--now how many drive SUV's--little more than marketing makes the difference. The term 'sport-utility rifle' (SUR) is a nifty one and really applies.



This being said, M-1 Garand. It punches through 1/2"+ steel plate, hits torso with iron sights at 500 yards (if YOU can), and can be lawfully brought into Canada if needed.

It is NOT a forgiving mistress; you have to study, learn, and understand.

 

[Reddbecca]

The OP said it can't be a black/tacticool rifle.

So duracoat it to some other color and don't put any cool accessories on it.

 

[Jeff F]

In a serious rifle caliber I'd say .308-7.62 NATO or 30-06. They are both common rounds you can find anywhere and will get the job done with room to spare.

 

[Jeff F]

As has been noted, repeatedly , a bolt action suffers from a lower rate of fire than a semi-auto.
Can't argue that.

You should see me do a mad minuet with an Enfield.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

I'd want a DPMS AR10-type in .260 rem or .308 win, with lots of mags, loaded ammo, reloading components and supplies.

But a lot could be said for an M14 type, or XCR in 6.5 grendel or 6.8 SPC with lots of mags. Or for that matter, a good turnbolt - super reliable, extremely accurate, and fairly fast - getting off 4 shots in 5 seconds will keep someone's head down long enough to allow you to skeedaddle, most of the time. And skeedaddle is the best course of action where possible, in armed conflict in a TEOTWAWKI situation. Truth is, there are many guns that would serve well - being proficient in its use is more important that caliber, action type, or capacity.

Vern makes a good point. Having that generator and other gear (and a plan) is 500 times more important than having ANY gun, when normal society breaks down. Vern, sounds like in your world, with your luck, when the power comes ON, that the end of the world as you know it.

 

[goon]

Jeff F. - The Enfield is an exception.
And really, you should see me do a mad minute with a FAL if you think an Enfield has firepower.
Between two equally skilled shooters, the odds are that the semi-auto would win every time.
But the question we need to answer is "Is a bolt action fast enough?"
Right now, I'm leaning toward "Yep" but maybe someone on here has tried it out to know for sure.

 

[JFrame]

But the question we need to answer is "Is a bolt action fast enough?"
Right now, I'm leaning toward "Yep" but maybe someone on here has tried it out to know for sure.

I think Sgt. York tried it out and found out it was...