Open Carry Encounters

[NavyLCDR]

Kleanbore, doesn't it just indicate that there is a problem with the way our system works? I think that as long as people are responsible with open carry, we (the RKBA movement) should be supportive. If it leads to more criminalization of CC, then OC has just advanced the schedule a notch or two. Eventually there will be a showdown between liberty and tyranny, and it will happen regardless of what the RKBA community does. I hate to be a pessimist, but I think it always gets worse before it gets better.

If you look at the way the firearms laws have been flowing the last couple of years, things are moving in our favor. People are fed up with the empty promises made by government that if we allow them to regulate everything they (the government) will make life better for us. People are starting to realize the government isn't going to help them.

I think we have already hit the low spot of the public trusting the government, and the last two years has done nothing but flush the toilet that the public trust of government was already in. Now is the time for us to display that it is up to the individual citizen to protect ourselves from crime. And, really, in order to maintain freedom, the government can't protect us from the criminal without taking away the freedoms of the law abiding citizens.

At this point in time, the general public is completely fed up with the government running just about anything and they are ready to vote FOR individual freedom in all areas.

 

[NavyLCDR]

The primary concern among CC people and CC-supporting law enforcement officers with whom I have talked is that the new criminalization of open carry may lead to charges against those who carry concealed who have inadvertently exposed parts of their firearms.

A secondary concern is that waving a red flag in front of the overwhelming number of people in the urban areas who still strongly oppose concealed carry (for idealogical reasons--there haven't been any problems so far) may fuel a campaign against the state preemption section of the concealed carry law.

I am sure that Rosa Parks and Susan B. Anthony's contemporaries probably said the same things about what they were doing as well.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by ccw_steve: Kleanbore, doesn't it just indicate that there is a problem with the way our system works?

I do not see how.

I think that as long as people are responsible with open carry, we (the RKBA movement) should be supportive.

Because the reaction here has been the enactment of anti gun laws and a renewal of the attack on concealed carry, not one person whom I know who supports RKBA is at all supportive of these activists, nor do any of them consider that they are being at all "responsible" with open carry.

If it leads to more criminalization of CC, then OC has just advanced the schedule a notch or two.

Why would one conclude that?

Concealed carry has been doing fine now for more than eight years.

Ten years ago, when it was put to a state wide ballot and was very narrowly defeated, the vote against CC was about 80% in the two major urban areas. When the legislature revisited the issue with a bill revised to accommodate some of the publicized objections and enacted the law with a veto override eight years ago, dire predictions were made, but things have been going along just fine ever since. While the media keeps reminding everyone of the 80% figure. There there has been no reason to expect problems, absent a catalytic event,

But now this. These activists have awakened a sleeping giant, as it were, and are causing problems that would most likely not have happened at all, but for their misguided efforts. This is not theory--this is what is happening in the city councils, right now and as a result of this so called activism. And unlike some of the rights struggles that have involved the liberty of very substantial majorities of our people, the margin of support in the courts for our side is very thin indeed.

Eventually there will be a showdown between liberty and tyranny, and it will happen regardless of what the RKBA community does.

I do not think that comment is relevant to the issue. Among the great majority of the general public, very, very few people considered the prohibition of open carry and concealed carry starting a century and more ago to constitute "tyranny."

I hate to be a pessimist, but I think it always gets worse before it gets better.

In anything cyclical, that depends upon when one starts measuring.

Yes, it got worse, starting during Reconstruction and continuing with the Sullivan Act and other like laws. And it took a very, very long time to start getting better. It has been getting better recently, with a win in Iowa. It could continue to get better, perhaps even with "shall issue" concealed carry in Illinois or maybe even in New Jersey.

Or it could get worse. No, I do not support these guys who are adding fuel to the fire to make that happen, nor does anyone else whom I know.

For most of my life, one needed the permission of the sheriff to acquire a handgun. Having one in the car in close proximity of the driver was unlawful, and concealed carry was forbidden. Those things have changed--finally. I do not want to see the misguided actions of a few put things back where they were.

Personally, I would like open carry to be legalized statewide. However, I have never understood why anyone would ever begin to think that carrying openly in areas in which the pavlovian response of the anti gun majority will inevitably be to do something to prevent it would somehow bring that about.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Personally, I would like open carry to be legalized statewide. However, I have never understood why anyone would ever begin to think that carrying openly in areas in which the pavlovian response of the anti gun majority will inevitably be to do something to prevent it would somehow bring that about.

The only way to change a Pavlovian response is to repeatedly expose the subject to something different.

There is an anti-gun Pavlovian response because the media and anti-gun groups have repeatedly exposed their subjects to views of guns that present the image that the gun itself is evil.

Concealed carry does nothing to change that. In fact, this fear of openly carried guns expressed by a limited number of the "pro-gun" crowd reinforces that Pavlovian response that guns are evil and should be hidden away from view.

What is needed is for the public to SEE guns carried by normal, everyday Americans in normal everyday American situations to SHOW them VISIBLY that it should be normal for an American to be able to protect themselves from criminals.

We need to counter the negative IMAGES that have been burned in the minds of the public by the anti-gun crown with positive IMAGES of our own. And promoting concealed carry simply isn't going to do that.

 

[PavePusher]

Kleanbore wrote: "There is concern that these actions will get CC eliminated."


Only if they want to get sued stupid(er).

 

[shamalama]

For me:

>> I've received positive or neutral comments and questions.
>> I've received negative, rude, or panicky reactions.
>> I was reported to the police as a "man with a gun."
>> No one seems to notice or mind that I'm openly carrying a handgun.

 

[PavePusher]

Kleanbore wrote: " However, I have never understood why anyone would ever begin to think that carrying openly in areas in which the pavlovian response of the anti gun majority will inevitably be to do something to prevent it would somehow bring that about."

Yeah, I guess all those lunch-counter sit-ins, marches, voter registration and bus riding during the Civil Rights movement were completely counter-productive, amIrite?

And please keep in mind that "keep and bear arms" is very much a Civil Right, equal to, and comparable with, any other.

 

[Kleanbore]

Yeah, I guess all those lunch-counter sit-ins, marches, voter registration and bus riding during the Civil Rights movement were completely counter-productive, amIrite?

No. But...that was not the same thing. Perhaps you have not taken into account that the principles of nondiscrimination were widely held by most people in most of the country; that the rights in question were being denied to half of the citizens in some states; that the right of those citizens to engage in economic boycotts that proved quite effective was not disputed; and that two US Presidents in a row had been willing to send in Federal troops and to nationalize various national guards to enforce Supreme Court rulings.. And while the right to keep and bear arms has finally been recognized by SCOTUS, the right of open carry, which appeals to a very small number of citizens, has not.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Why is it then, that this strong, anti-gun 'majority' has not been able to stop laws that are easing gun controls across the country?

Kleanbore, we aren't the minority anymore. At least not in an overwhelmingly majority of the US.

 

[CoRoMo]

...panicky reactions.

That's the one. A handful of people have almost wet themselves at the sight of a gun on me. Oh well... ain't my problem.

The ones who make a fuss are easy to count. The ones who never gave it a second thought... I can't possibly number them.

 

[Kleanbore]

There is an anti-gun Pavlovian response because the media and anti-gun groups have repeatedly exposed their subjects to views of guns that present the image that the gun itself is evil.

That, plus educators and screen dramatizations.

Concealed carry does nothing to change that.

True.

In fact, this fear of openly carried guns expressed by a limited number of the "pro-gun" crowd reinforces that Pavlovian response that guns are evil and should be hidden away from view.

Not true. Contending that willfully antagonizing the general public is counterproductive reinforces absolutely nothing along that line--nor can it.

What is needed is for the public to SEE guns carried by normal, everyday Americans in normal everyday American situations to SHOW them VISIBLY that it should be normal for an American to be able to protect themselves from criminals.

I have noted that when lawfully armed citizens have been reported as having defended themselves, there is some slight but growing realization that guns may not all be bad.

On the other hand, when people walk around trying to show that they have a right to carry by doing so openly and taking video cameras with them, the result among the general populace and the politicians has been just the opposite of what had been intended, and the media continue to make it worse. They aren't projecting a positive image; they are just waving a red flag at the bull.

We need to counter the negative IMAGES that have been burned in the minds of the public by the anti-gun crown with positive IMAGES of our own. And promoting concealed carry simply isn't going to do that.

Actually, whenever a lawfully owned weapon is properly used, it does seem to do that. Where I live, they are all concealed.

Promoting concealed carry isn't something we do to counter images, however. It is to enable citizens to protect themselves. It is the prohibition of concealed carry that keeps me out of several states.

...we aren't the minority anymore. At least not in an overwhelmingly majority of the US.

Where I live, people who support concealed carry are a still a very small minority, but I think we are growing slightly. The number of people who support open carry in the metropolitan areas is insignificant. And this is a "conservative" state.

State-wide, we were a slight minority ten years ago. Where it stands now I do not know.

What count, however, are the numbers in the city councils, in the legislatures, and on the courts.


__________________

 

[Lou McGopher]

Outlook: Positive

This

vs. this

I appreciate all those who have voted, and those who have shared some open-carry anecdotes. The reactions experienced by my fellow OCers are mostly encouraging, and I hope more open carriers will chime-in.

 

[230therapy]

95% never notice...and I watch. Sometimes I have a friend walk behind to gauge reactions.

 

[gym]

I think this is a leading question best left unanswered, as people can pick and choose parts of your story, good or bad, and use it to make their point in a context that you didn't necessarilly mean it in.
If you guys remember a week or so ago this was discussed as to answering or not answering certain kinds of questions being we don't know where they go.

 

[simon_rook]

Well one time I was coming back to Tucson from school up in Phoenix. After the long drive I was exhausted. I was sitting at a red light with the clutch in in first and didn't realized I was rolling backwards. I bumped the truck behind me at the light.

The owner jumped out swearing up a storm calling me everything from stupid to ignorant cussing up a storm. I exited the vehicle left side to him apologizing. My dog got fired up because of the commotion and tried to exit the vehicle with me. I turned to push her back in and the mans whole demeanor of hostility vanished.

I hadn't gotten my CCW permit yet and was open carrying my XD.45 on my right hip. I walked to the back of my pick up politely spoke with the gentleman as to weather or not he wanted to call the police and do a report. He said no there was no damage, but just to pay more attention to what I was doing.

I know it was my pistol and not my polite attitude that changed this mans approach to me. To be honest I felt bad. He had every right to be angry. At the same time though I was also grateful not to be scolded like a 12 yr old on the side of the road by a complete stranger.

 

[bikerdoc]

Not one comment to me in 40 yrs.

However, I was at a group breakfast a few yrs ago at a place tourists stop in the summer. A lady noticed one of our group open carrying and said, "That is dangerous, it would never be allowed back home."

Before I could offer a calm explaination of RKBA he blurts out " So carry your fat butt back home." Not the right response and a lost opportunity to futher our cause.
Remember we need to educate those in the less free states.

 

[Dnaltrop]

I have 2 canned responses for the Day that WILL come when someone sees me carrying in my car, or on my property.

1) "I'm sorry sir/madam, but I'm severely disabled, and don't heal properly. Your loud, aggressive reaction is causing me great alarm, Kindly control yourself before I call the police and have you arrested for menacing"

2) " Have you ever had someone threaten to douse your children with gasoline and set them afire, because of where you work? "

There is a good reason I cover up in the general public, but I DO relish the enhanced right of self defense, it's the only good thing about being a physical wreck. NO-ONE can claim that I was not in genuine fear for my safety.

 

[FROGO207]

I do open carry whenever the opportunity presents itself and I feel it will help the masses become used to the idea. However there are times that discretion needs to be used. Another point is that in a small community that swells 500% in the tourist season I don't want a lot of unknown people following me around with the thought of "he might have many more of them at home" and returning there for a visit after I have gone to work later on. Most of the people I trust know about my being a "gun nut" but others do not need to know I own a bunch of them. I have at present had no negative experiences with open carry yet in 50 years doing it.

 

[ChCx2744]

The only times that I've open carried were when I was LEO in uniform, off-duty with my badge and ID badge next to it and sometimes when camping and hunting. I've never been approached about it, except one time: I was in full duty gear and stopped by a Cuban sandwich joint for lunch and a little boy came up and asked what kind of gun I had. I smiled, told him and he smiled back and said "Cool!"

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

these guys on my local state gun forum always like to cause drama, insisting on OC'ing at events where it's been banned like a fireworks show or a private business that doesn't allow firearms on the premises it for example, just to "exercise their rights" or prove a point.


they fail to understand many businesses don't allow it because it's a liability for them that their insurance may not cover if they don't disallow it. it doesn't mean that business is "assaulting the 2nd amen".

 

[SpaceFrank]

What is needed is for the public to SEE guns carried by normal, everyday Americans in normal everyday American situations to SHOW them VISIBLY that it should be normal for an American to be able to protect themselves from criminals.

I'm much more inclined toward CC for the usually stated reasons, but if anything was going to motivate me to OC, it would be this.

 

[simon_rook]

+1 SpaceFrank and Navy LT

I CC but have a lot of respect for those who open carry now that I'm more informed as to what they are representing. I had all but forgotten the leering and glares i would get before my CCW Permit arrived.

 

[ObsidianOne]

I've only received one negative comment so far, I CC and OC depending on the situation. Though I do prefer to OC as my paddle SERPA holster is far more comfortable than my other holsters.
I was picking up my mother's friend from the airport in Las Vegas, NV and on the way back we stopped in Searchlight, NV for a bite to eat. It was late at night at McDonald's was closed there. I bought a sandwich and asked the cashier if it would be alright if I went into the casino area to sit at one of the tables to eat the sandwich. She said it'd be no problem. I went in, sat down and started eating, my mother's friend was playing a slot machine and I went over to explain the rules of this particular machine and was approached by a female casino employee who asked me "Excuse me, may I ask why you're carrying a gun? Are you an undercover cop?" I was caught a little off guard by this, as I'm 21, and I look a bit younger than I truly am, and I was open carrying a semiauto. I was thinking, "Man, I'd be a terrible undercover if I was open carrying". I told her "No, I'm not. I carry for personal protection", in which she proceeded to tell me that I cannot be there with a gun, as it is illegal to carry a gun into a casino in Nevada. Which, is a crock. I understand most casinos don't WANT you to carry, but there weren't any signs posted what-so-ever.

A positive time, I went into Autozone for the second time in two days and the guy at the counter said "Man, you carry a different gun every day, huh?!" and I told him that it's the same gun. Then he asked me to pull it out to show him and I politely let him know I wasn't about to draw a gun in Autozone

 

[goshooting]

i only like to open carry at gun range or privater property. a guy at my gun store bought a pistol and went to a store where a man watched him take the gun from dash to under seat and stole his gun while in store then the man came out and confronted him about steeling his gun so man pulled out gun and shot him with his own gun. if gun was concealed noone is a wiser.i like carrying concealed because nobody eles knows or has to know or need to know in my 2 cents

 

[Snowbandit]

I was given a badge when I retired from law enforcement so, on the rare occasion that I open carry, I can hang that on my belt and no one has ever questioned it. As a general rule, for myself, I prefer concealed but fully support those who open carry.