First day carrying open and...

[Big R]

Hi everybody. I'm new here and this is my first post, so have some mercy on me if I break a rule. I'm also fairly new to firearms in general. Didn't shoot one until about 2 1/2 years ago after I started working at Big 5 Sporting Goods. My fascination has gotten the better of me and 5 guns later I feel pretty good. I have a 357 Snub Nose Taurus revolver that I got to use as a concealed weapon. I got my CCW and have carried it (concealed) just every now and again. I decided that I wanted to start carrying it on a regular basis and to get an open carry holster. After spending a few days around the house breaking in my Fobus paddle holster I finally felt comfortable carrying it out in public. First stop: gas station down the street. I go into the store and there are a few customers in line and one guy behind the counter. The cashier keeps looking over at me and I start to get the feeling that he noticed my pistol. While continuing helping others he asks me, "Hey, are you some kind of police officer or something?" I'm 23, look pretty young for my age, and have never been asked that before. I politely respond that I am not an officer. He starts telling me that he doesn't like seeing people with pistols on them and he would be more comfortable if I left it outside. I tell him I understand and continue to wait in line. He then goes on to tell me that growing up in South Central LA ("the bad part") guns meant bad news and that people didn't carry them unless they were looking for trouble. I'm mostly quiet about it and shortly one of the other customers tells him that he was born and raised here and that he isn't bothered by my gun whatsoever. And that he appreciated being able to see it in the open. He told the cashier that with all of the gang activity going on he doesn't blame me for carrying, and that the ones you have to be worried about are the gangbangers. The cashier peered over the counter and said he could tell it was a .38 Snub. (Close enough) He rang me up and I left with nothing further being said about the matter. I'm not the kind of person who like to stir things up or get people uncomfortable, but I know that I have every right to carry openly. I can see where he could get uncomfortable working in a rough neighborhood (were there was a gang shooting at that very location a month ago) and seeing someone come in with a gun, especially working at a convenience store. I am wondering if there are certain places that it is just best to leave it in the car. Just looking for advise from others who have carried for years on how to deal with unwelcome attention. It's a lot more comfortable and convenient to carry open but I don't know if I want to deal with getting hassled everyday. Thanks for reading.

Ryan

 

[Mad Chemist]

Thanks for sharing.
Paragraphs are easier for the eye to track.

This doesn't really belong in strategies and tactics, maybe general gun discusion.

Oh BTW, welcome.

 

[GojuBrian]

I can't carry openly in my state. Even if I could I wouldn't. I want my firearm to be a surprise if I ever have to use it. The fact that someone has intentions you don't know about and already knows you are armed gives them the upper hand. I want the upper hand, so I carry concealed everywhere.

I would advise to never leave your firearm in your vehicle. It might arm someone with your gun, wouldn't that be sad.

 

[BULLSI]

http://opencarry.org/index.html

 

[Avenger29]

I would advise to never leave your firearm in your vehicle. It might arm someone with your gun, wouldn't that be sad.

A secured lockbox is a must for the weapon carrying citizen. Good for holding weapons and other small valuables.

 

[GojuBrian]

A secured lockbox is a must for the weapon carrying citizen. Good for holding weapons and other small valuables.

and if your vehicle is stolen.....

If it's in a lock box then the person isn't carrying.

 

[ilikepancakes]

Welcome Big R,

I'd say try carrying it open a little longer if that's what you prefer, and if you find you're not liking it after a while then go back to CC. But do give it a chance before you get put off by one guy's comment. Remember in addition to having the right to open carry you also have the right to ignore people you don't want to talk to.

 

[Jumping Frog]

He starts telling me that he doesn't like seeing people with pistols on them and he would be more comfortable if I left it outside. I tell him I understand and continue to wait in line.

Just an FYI so that you have something to think about. In Ohio, and many other states, if someone asks you to leave the premises and you persistently refuse, you may be charged with criminal trespassing.

I am not saying you persistently refused in this case, since he asked you to leave the gun outside, not to leave. But for future reference, you may want to be aware.

For myself, if I am asked to leave, then I simply hand them one of my "No Guns - No Money" cards from Ohioans for Concealed Carry and leave.

I am wondering if there are certain places that it is just best to leave it in the car. Just looking for advise from others who have carried for years on how to deal with unwelcome attention. It's a lot more comfortable and convenient to carry open but I don't know if I want to deal with getting hassled everyday.

It isn't as bad as you think. I've open carried for years and have only had it create an issue on a handful of occasions.

If you are going to open carry, I recommend you get a digital voice recorder. I know of cases where police were called, got abusive and foul-mouthed, lied about the law, and then arrested the open carrier. The fact the incident was recorded changed everything. The charges were dropped, police were retrained or reprimanded, life was good. Face it, if it comes to a court case, the jury generally believes police testimony unless there is evidence to the contrary.

 

[Warhawk83]

I wonder how many times the clerk has been robbed by someone open carrying in a paddle holster.

If it were me,I would be relieved to see someone that wasn't a thug carrying a gun.

I have OC'd a few times now, and the weird is just now starting to wear off,it takes a while. It's mostly my own paranoia about what people are thinking.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I am not saying you persistently refused in this case, since he asked you to leave the gun outside, not to leave. But for future reference, you may want to be aware.

I beg to differ with you on the bolded part, Jumping Frog. The statement, according to the OP, was "he would be more comfortable if I left it outside." That is a statement of what the clerk would be more comfortable with, it was not a request for the patron to leave.

Big R,
Good on you! Just keep it up, you will discover that 95% of the time nobody is going to notice. What I do is always wear an undershirt and usually wear a shirt that works equally well tucked in or untucked. That way I can conceal my gun by just flipping my shirt over it. Or a light jacket that will just tuck in behind the gun or go over the gun depending on my choice.

Places I normally conceal are shopping malls and around family friends that I know are anti. Other than that I open carry just about everywhere, Wal Mart, movie theaters (unless they are in a mall), restaurants, both 7-11's in town. I live a pretty small and quiet community, though, and rarely does anybody say anything about it, and 90% of those that have are curious about it and go away with more factual information than they had before they asked.

Also, Ryan, might want to list at least a state in your profile so you will get more customized answers that would be more applicable to where you are from.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Just an FYI so that you have something to think about. In Ohio, and many other states, if someone asks you to leave the premises and you persistently refuse, you may be charged with criminal trespassing.

That depends on who is doing the asking. A cashier on his own may or may not have the authority to act on behalf of the company/property owner to make that decision.

As for the OP, I too think you will find that most people don't notice or say anything at all. You ran across one of the unusual cases. In fact, I'd have been tempted to ask for his manager and report him for harassing a law abiding customer minding his own business......

 

[ForumSurfer]

Paragraphs are easier for the eye to track.

+1. Thanks for making my eyes water!

Just an FYI so that you have something to think about. In Ohio, and many other states, if someone asks you to leave the premises and you persistently refuse, you may be charged with criminal trespassing.

Yeah, what he said. You need to research your local laws, but you'll find that to be the case almost anywhere. If you are asked to leave private property, you are required to leave. You may file charges later if you feel you have been discriminated against for whatever reason. If the owner or someone the owner authorizes with legal authority over the property (like the store clerk) asks you to leave, you are obliged to do so. If he asks you to leave and you persist, you're trespassing.

Good luck. I fully support open carry. I do not open carry since the laws are vague at best in my state (NC). I have a chp and I just happen to like that solution better for me.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Why the fascination over trespassing? The OP was never asked to leave the store...

 

[mcdonl]

I'm not the kind of person who like to stir things up or get people uncomfortable,

But, if your going to OC you are going to make people incomforable.

But, what I dont get is why.

I cannot know for sure, but I am guessing that out of every thug who has ever walked into a shop 'n rob and pulled a gun... NONE of them were OC'ing at the time.

Some people are just afraid of guns and when you are scared you do not act the same as you would under normal circumstances. You may have started him on the road to healing and getting over his fear of guns.

 

[Dave Bulla]

I don't carry a handgun but I do hunt a lot and it is sort of similar to discussions I've had on other forums about going into public places while wearing my camo. After a lot of talk and discussions over being PC or not PC or if you should even care since it's perfectly legal I've come to a conclusion.

When wearing camo (or if I chose to open carry a hand gun) I have no problem going anywhere that is legal. The kicker is this.... I make it a point to be polite to people. I'll hold a door for anyone coming or going in our out of a store at the same time as me, smile and nod etc. I'll say excuse me if passing someone in an aisle of the store and I've even helped an old lady with her groceries and stopped alongside the road to help a stranded motorist. My point is this. MOST of the people you meet while out in public in camo or while carrying a gun don't have much of an opinion one way or another about guns. Sure they'll notice you. You'll stick out like a sore thumb. SO BE NICE. BE RESPECTABLE. BE THE TYPE OF PERSON YOU'D WANT YOUR DAUGHTER TO BRING HOME ON A DATE.

If you run into a vocal anti, maintain your cool, keep your voice even and calmly state that you are not breaking any law so you would appreciate not being hassled and you'll be on your way.

Of course, standing in line at the grocery store with full camo, a gun on your hip and a cart full of beer is gonna leave a bad impression. Whether or not that bothers you is up to you.

 

[mcdonl]

Of course, standing in line at the grocery store with full camo, a gun on your hip and a cart full of beer is gonna leave a bad impression. Whether or not that bothers you is up to you.

You just described the afternoon in the supermarket for much of the people in my community during deer and turkey season. Maybe if you try this in a yuppy community you will leave a bad impression, but if you try this in Maine, you are called... a hunter.

PS - I don't drink

 

[Big Boy]

Check out www.opencarry.org The forums are full of info.

You'll find a lot of people for OC, and a lot of people against it at this fourm.

I OC my self, and I encourage you to open carry where ever it's legal, and you are comfortable doing. The only thing I'd suggest is getting a retention holster. Something with a thumb break, or something like a blackhawk serpa holster.

Standing in lines in stores with people right behind me makes me uncomfortable unless I have a retention holster.

 

[bonza]

BigR, where in eastern Washington are you?

 

[Gouranga]

If it were me,I would be relieved to see someone that wasn't a thug carrying a gun.

ditto. Point to bring up to that clerk should you cross his path again. Outside my fav gun store, there is a BP station. For about a year they had a HUGE cardboard sign on each door that read "ABSOLUTELY NO FIREARMS ALLOWED!". On matter of principal all of us who went to that gun store avoided that place like the plague.

The criminals treated that gas station like their own personal ATM, they were robbed (by gun toting criminals) 1-2 times every month. After a year of that, they took down the sign and made a point to the store that they were now inviting us to bring our guns in. In the last 7 months since then they have not been robbed once. Not once.

Criminals do NOT like coming into a store full of armed citizens. it complicates things and they do not want complicated. They want to control the situation, get in, get the money, maybe a quick thrill (shoot or beat the clerk), and get away. They generally do not open carry OR patiently wait in line to rob the clerk.

 

[Zoogster]

You may have the right to open carry, but businesses have the right to refuse you business and ask you to leave as well.

Something to keep in mind. If you are asked to leave by someone and do not, it can become trespassing.
Or even the more serious "armed trespass" some places.


Open Carry is important as it specifically keeps people from retaining irrational fears like the clerk had. If he saw open carried firearms on a regular basis they would be normal, instead the rare firearm reminds him of his past where only criminals carried firearms (and most certainly not openly.)
If the entire public passes several people carrying while on normal errands each day, then guns are just a normal tool, and the emotional response to them fades away.
On a typical day of doing some shopping in some large public stores or supermarkets passing 100+ people is normal. In some places a busy day is several hundred people.
That means if just 1% open carried most people would pass at least one open carried firearm.
On a busy day or some places they would pass many.
Hard to retain irrational fears or a perspectives that all guns are bad in that environment.

 

[wishin]

Welcome to THR.

I rarely see anyone in my neck of the woods open carrying, yet when I OC during the summer no one says anything to me. I'm a white bearded 69 year old. So, maybe the fact that you look young is what may prompt people to question your carry. Be polite when asked, but don't be defensive. As mentioned already, unless you're asked by the proprietor to leave, the laws of most states that allow you to carry are on your side. Some States require businesses to post that firearms are not permitted.

Familiarize yourself with your local laws and be a shining example of RKBA. You're off to a good start.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I've only seen one person in my life OC in southern NH, I am 17 but still. As I recall the OC'er was a EMT.

 

[average_shooter]

So if the cashier asked the OP to leave before paying, does the OP get free gas, or would they get to charge him with theft even after they told him to leave before he could pay for it?

 

[KodiakBeer]

He then goes on to tell me that growing up in South Central LA...

You could just as easily have replied that people from South Central LA make many people feel uncomfortable, but since you're not a bigot you hadn't brought it up. Then ask him to keep his own bigoted views in check, for the sake of good manners.

 

[jlott00]

wish here in "the natural" state we could OC, but mainly for those times your shirt gets untucked and your glock says peekaboo