Open Carry in Texas

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I might live in Florida but I'm all for Texas getting a right to Open Carry. Reduce the number to five states that don't allow open carry and soon (maybe ten years from now) Florida might become an open carry state. I do admit, like having to take a nuisance course and pay a relatively small fee to conceal carry, I wouldn't mind if a person had to get a permit/license to open carry. If you open carry and a cop wants to see your permit, then you have to be reasonable and let them see and check it. If they try and speak some garbage about statistics they have no knowledge of, or understanding of, just smile and politely say "well i'll be sure to look into that." Had a cop at bar I occassionally barback at tell me I didn't need a concealed carry permit (wasn't carrying at the time) and he went on and on about statistics so I showed him some of my knife wound scars from before I could conceal carry and told him "I guess I'm not part of the statistics then, damn glad I got my concealed carry permit."

Every arena of firearm ownership is open game, and for the past fifty or so years we have been in a struggle to preserve our rights. If you don't think a group is going about it the right way then feel free to offer your help. United we stand, divided the antis strip us of our rights and this country goes into the mire.
 
MagnumDweeb said:
I wouldn't mind if a person had to get a permit/license to open carry.
<SNIP>
Every arena of firearm ownership is open game, and for the past fifty or so years we have been in a struggle to preserve our rights.
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. . . but getting a 'permission slip' (license) from "the man" isn't preserving our rights.
 
So, how does one carry a sidearm in TX when you're out in the open range, on a horse?
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One of my gripes with Texas is the lack of public land, but at least it makes this sort of thing generally easy. If you are out on the "open range" here, or riding a horse, you are likely on private property, where open carry is quite alright.

The problem comes when you get off the horse and drive to the local diner and forget that you've got a gun on your belt. Thankfully the only time I did that no one in the small north Texas town seemed to care or notice. I can't imagine Austin would have been so kind.
 
Unremarkable

Remember, folks, one of larger the objectives for the RKBA community is to achieve a culture where guns are simply unremarkable.

The goal is that one worries about one's holster from a fashion perspective, not a legal one.

The bad guys have spent years trying to de-sensitize people to gun control, so that banning handguns, for example, is seen as "common sense."

There was a time when a gun on the hip simply wasn't remarked.

I remember that time. And I grew up in California.

You could walk through Placerville with a long gun and/or a hip-holstered pistol and only catch flak if your holster and boots clashed. That, or a poor selection of hat.

Kids came to school with a shotgun or rifle in the back of their pickup as a seasonal event. Gun racks were a favorite wood shop project. Cap guns and cowboys & Indians were the norm. "Let's round up the guys and have a war! . . . Cool -- can my sister play?"

Unremarkable.

So, after decades of assault on common sense gun carry, we find ourselves worrying about whether carrying one "makes you a target."

Our job is to re-sensitize people to loss of liberty (gun control) and re-acquaint them with common sense gun carry, and proper fashion.

Make it unremarkable.

"What? This old thing? Heck, I've had it for years. Grandfather gave it to me. Why do you ask?"

 
I'd love to stop worrying about a felony if I reach for a box of Wheaties at the grocery store and accidentally expose my firearm. IMO, Open Carry is a right withheld from the citizens of Texas. It's about time we demand it...again.
 
Quote:
So, how does one carry a sidearm in TX when you're out in the open range, on a horse?

One of my gripes with Texas is the lack of public land, but at least it makes this sort of thing generally easy. If you are out on the "open range" here, or riding a horse, you are likely on private property, where open carry is quite alright.
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And one of my gripes with Yankees who've never been to Texas (like the guy you're quoting) is that they think the whole state is an old Western movie. I know Houston is only the fourth largest city in the US, but we do have cars here, and yes, even pavement on the roads.
 
One of the previous posters brought up an interesting point.

Instead of championing open carry, maybe we should be working toward more freedom in the number of places we can carry, either open or concealed.
And while I support any law that allows (or removes restrictions upon) open carry, you won't see me doing it myself. I just love surprises. I'd also be interested in hearing what convicted felons have to say (assuming any of them have or will) about those who carry open vs. concealed.
 
"I'm also curious what the opinion of the LEO's in the open carry state. Do they believe it helps deter crime? Do they feel it's more of a hassle for them?"

My twin brother's a cop in Charlotte, NC, where open carry is allowed without a permit and cc is allowed with one. He tells me the problem he runs into is gangstas with no felony convictions (yet) carrying open. He's been in more than a couple situations where these guys outnumber him three or four to one. They usually qualify to own a gun, but due to misdemeanor drug and assault convictions, would not be able to get a CCW. If he could have it his way, he'd have it be a combined CCW/Open carry liscence that he could ask to see instead of having to go to his cruiser to run their driver's liscences (which many don't have since there is no law to have ID on you if you're not driving or buying booze.)
 
I'd love to stop worrying about a felony if I reach for a box of Wheaties at the grocery store and accidentally expose my firearm....
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There you go repeating the misinformation that those foreigners from opencarry.org are spouting. If you'd bother to read the pelal code for yourself, you'd find out that
PC w6.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holdets person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun. [emphasis mine]
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And if you read down further, you will also see that

or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) is a Class A
misdemeanor, unless the offense ,is committed under Subsection
(b)(l) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony of the third
degree. [emphasis mine]
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That's a prime example of why I think opencarry.org needs to either go back to where they came from or coordinate with someone from Texas who has a clue. Like maybe the TSRA?
 
Arfin,

I couldn't agree with you more. You nailed it! I too remember a time when guns were unremarkable. I've personally had rifles in the gun rack of my buddy's Jeep at high school. We would often hunt or target shoot after school. It was no big deal. Neither was the pocketknife I carried to school beginning in the 4th grade.

I hope we get OC in Texas. And I don't mind if we have to have a CHL to do so. The classroom training and range qualification are good things.
 
Excuse me?

Ah, Mr. Dickens, while you are technically correct TPC 46.035(a) states that it is an offense for a CHL holder to "intentionally [fail] to conceal the handgun" and 46.035(g) lists it as a class A misdemeanor, the reality is that it is up to a jury to decide whether the failure to conceal was intentional or not. Any lawyer even minimally worth their license could so obscure the meaning of "intentionally" as to make it seem that unless the CHL holder did everything humanly possible to keep the pistol concealed, they intended to display the weapon. In Travis, Dallas, and Harris counties it would virtually be a slam dunk if the prosecution wanted to push it. Might not even be all that hard to get a conviction in Bexar county. If the defendant could not afford a VERY good lawyer he/she could easily end up with the maximum 1 year in county lockup and $1k fine. Since a conviction for an "A" misdemeanor can permanently disqualify you for being a LEO or even a security guard, the effects would be significant.

BTW, while I don't like the idea of needing permission from Big Brother to openly carry a sidearm, neither do I especially like the idea of people openly carrying without being at least minimally exposed to the law concerning use of force - TPC chapter 9 - and especially the conditions under which use of deadly force is justified. I would also like to know that people who want to carry - be it concealed or openly - have been educated in and passed a test on where it is NOT legal to carry and basic firearm safety. I'd also like them to be able to pass the same laughably easy shooting qual that I have to to get/keep my guard license. Twenty rounds each from 3 and 7 yards and 10 rounds from 7 yards into a man sized target ain't that hard to do but you'd be surprised how many first time shooters miss from 7 or even THREE yards. I for one would be willing to voluntarily give up a tiny bit of liberty in that area only to have my family's safety increased.

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Cyborg
Burying your head in the sand only makes your a** a better target.
 
Quote:
Open Carry is a fight, at best, not really a right.
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No? I can open carry without permission from Uncle Sam, yet I have to pay for and beg my state for a license which allows me to conceal. which can be arbitrarily revoked at almost any time.

How is open carry not a right, again?
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"--the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

The way I read that, and the way SCOTUS reads it (Heller/Scalia) is that I have a right to keep, and to bear.

Nothing in there about "bearing concealed with a permit issued by the state."
 
Read More

Read more of the Heller decision.

They make a point of not upending the authority of states to determine the allowable uses and carry locations of firearms.

So, sure, keep and bear.

And when it comes time to deploy that arm, you'll want to know what the law is concerning that. Acceptable use should probably be taught in high school, along with things like driver's ed and *ahem* reproductive guidance.

You can do all the keeping and bearing you want, but when it's time for using, you'll want to be well informed on the local laws for that.

 
bdickens said:
Opencarry.org should keep their butts in Virginia where they came from!
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Then what would your excellence suggest us TEXAN members of opencarry.org do to promote and decriminalize open carry? suck it up and get the CHL?
bdickens said:
Their proposed bill is poorly written; it looks like a first-year law student simply lined through parts of the Texas Penal Code.
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then kindly submit YOUR proposed legislation so we can compare, k?

bdickens said:
They have no concept of the political realities of Texas.
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Do I, as a Texas resident and member of opencarry.org have no concept of Texas political realities then? Are YOU the only one cognizant enough of Texas politics to decide what should and should not be done?

Please, enlighten us less intelligent open carry proponents of your wisdom and superiority.
 
Okay, DKSuddeth, why don't you ask the TSRA what they think of opencarry.org's bill? I bet they think it sucks, too.

Cyborg: there's been exactly two convictions in Texas for intentionally failing to conceal. That's 2. One. Two. In over a decade.

I for one would be willing to voluntarily give up a tiny bit of liberty in that area only to have my family's safety increased.
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Over 200 years ago, the esteemed Mr. Franklin had some choice words to say about people with your attitude.
 
We asked TSRA to join us and help support open carry, guess what we were told? That we were on our own and that was BEFORE any proposed legislation had been drafted. TSRA had/has different priorities and they didn't include open carry. So to hell with TSRA, we'll get it done ourselves. Maybe once we do that, TSRA can look to us for support on some of their later measures.
 
I know What Franklin Said

bdickens said:
Over 200 years ago, the esteemed Mr. Franklin had some choice words to say about people with your attitude.
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I know exactly what Franklin wrote. I also know that because I have a Guard license I am held to a higher standard in any use of firearms. I would like to know that everyone else who I see packing heat has demonstrated the ability to hit someone in the torso from 7 yards. Otherwise I can hear some whore of a shyster trying to convince that his client shouldn't be held accountable for the carnage that resulted from said client opening up on a supposed badguy. At the very least regulating open carry would ensure the carriers had been exposed to TPC Chapter 9.

Also, remember folks that the constitution does not apply to the states. We have no protection from individual states infringing on any of the rights enumerated in the constitution. That's why most all states - including our beloved Texas - have a RKBA section.

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Cyborg
Burying your head in the sand only makes your a** a better target.
 
I think open carry is sort of a mixed bag. On the positive side if it turns out your carry gun is less concealed than you thought it was your covered. On the negative side you have frightened anti-guners and idiots who think open carry makes them John Wayne. (not a winning combination)
 
Also, remember folks that the constitution does not apply to the states. We have no protection from individual states infringing on any of the rights enumerated in the constitution. That's why most all states - including our beloved Texas - have a RKBA section.
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That is incorrect.
 
NH open carry

NH open carry.

From a LEO perspective, I guess I'm a little biased because I live in the northern part of the state where it wouldn't get much attention. Good topic though for several reasons.......ok....just thinking out loud here so bear with me.......

--As a cop interacting with someone open carrying (I do this quite often), at least I'll "know where I stand" as it were...(and being a big Second Amend. rights supporter I'm all for doing it.) The complaintant can hardly BELIEVE it when I turn someone loose without arresting them, confiscating the weapon, and tell them "have a nice day" as they swagger away with it still on line!!! I always get a kick out of it. Then usually I need to spend the next few minutes with a VERY irate complaintant who just doesn't understand the law about open carry.

--For ME PERSONALLY (whether a cop or not)....I wouldn't want everyone knowing I was carrying (too keep any edge on a situation I can instead of a bright neon sign over me saying "hey...look at me!!!")

--I think with open carry comes a HUGE ammt. of responsibility though. You are representing yourself, your knowledge of firearms, your family, your town, your state, the Second Amend., other gun owners, and overall public perception of firearms. I feel that, if this is a choice to be made, one must strive to ACT LIKE A STEWARD of this freedom that we all enjoy in open carry states. That means talking with people calmly if they have concerns, dealing with the police (if they are called) with respect, EDUCATING those with open minds, and asserting YOUR rights in a way that doesn't "set us back"........I mean lets face it guys/girls......we need all the help we can get with "winning the hearts and minds". :)
 
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