Open Carry

[ROAshooter]

Well today, (5/29/15) in a popular buffet restaurant, during the evening dinner crowds, I observed an open carry. A casually dressed man, dark pants, white/blue plaid shirt, was filling his plate, many people around him, and not one person freaked out!! Was toting a 1911 in a high rise holster, and he was clearly not an off duty policeman. Times are a changing, much to the chagrin of the bleeding heart liberals. I choose to carry concealed, but in the great state of OKLAHOMA, it is legal to open carry!

 

[Malamute]

Being in a crowd, did it look like he had a retention holster of any sort?

 

[Styx]

I seen a few people on separate occasions OC holstered handguns in a busy Walmar there in Liberal Hampton Roads, VA, and no one batted an eye. As long as the carrier doesn't appear dodgy, and the gun remains holstered, I don't think that most Americans care... I think the current resistance and negative indication surrounding OC stems from those who carry rifles into these places... If the guy at the restaurant you were at had an AR15 slung around his arm, I'm willing to bet that people would be a little more on edge...

Also, I know many Liberal gun owners who like guns, but not other Conservative causes. At least from my experience, the whole generation that Liberals hate guns is media hype.

 

[JSH1]

I seen a few people on separate occasions OC holstered handguns in a busy Walmar there in Liberal Hampton Roads, VA, and no one batted an eye. As long as the carrier doesn't appear dodgy, and the gun remains holstered, I don't think that most Americans care... I think the current resistance and negative indication surrounding OC stems from those who carry rifles into these places... If the guy at the restaurant you were at had an AR15 slung around his arm, I'm willing to bet that people would be a little more on edge...

Also, I know many Liberal gun owners who like guns, but not other Conservative causes. At least from my experience, the whole generation that Liberals hate guns is media hype.

Exactly right.

 

[Saddlebag Preacher]

Not that uncommon where I live also. But KY was an open carry long before CCW was legal. I think it's becoming more common than a few years ago in urban areas. I've actually seen a few at the new Cabela's in Louisville when I visited it.

 

[627PCFan]

Im in Northern VA which can be very left. I was at lunch yesterday and noticed a young guy at McD's OC'ing a Kimber in a Fobus, wearing one of those "ATF, whos bringing the chips" tshirts. I was OCing but he didnt notice me. He seemed pretty dodgy, lots of rapid eye movement. I also noticed his hammer was on safety notch, no mag and I think his thumb safety was off. If your gonna OC, at least look the part

 

[Lord Teapot]

i never thought open carry made much sense

the point of carrying my gun is to protect myself, why would i show anyone who potentially seeks to do me harm;

1) that i have it

2) where it is

just my two cents

 

[Zaydok Allen]

i never thought open carry made much sense

the point of carrying my gun is to protect myself, why would i show anyone who potentially seeks to do me harm;

1) that i have it

2) where it is

just my two cents

That has always been my standpoint too. More than anything, I don't want to deal with the hassle of talking to cops if someone does freak out, though that is unlikely in the extremely gun friendly place that I live.

However, last year I took a class that qualified me for the Utah non-resident concealed carry permit. It was put on by a company called Legal Heat, and the instructor was a lawyer who specialized in cases involving firearms, and he claimed that he helped either Utah, or Idaho is popping into my head for some reason, revise their carry laws the last time they needed work. Not sure what that means, but he did seem knowledgeable.

His paraphrased comment on this notion was that in about a decade of working on criminal cases involving a firearm, and studying cases of self defense shootings, he had never seen a case where the criminal specifically targeted a open carrying citizen to remove them from the fight. He said that in suspect interviews after trial, he had often heard that if a criminal entered an area with intent to rob/steal/whatever, and they saw an open carrying individual, they typically left to avoid a potentially troublesome situation, or a murder charge. The lawyer did not specify how many individuals said this though.

The bottom line was that he felt open carry was in fact the best deterrent there was to criminals attacking you, or committing a crime around you. Obviously nothing is 100% though.

Personally I only open carry when I'm out in the woods. I choose to conceal the rest of the time to save myself headaches, so I'm not advocating anything. I'm only sharing the lawyer's thoughts that I spoke with.

 

[txblackout]

Most liberals do want guns banned. You can look at dailykos (liberal site) they have a contingent that is very pro 2A and are the RKBA (right to keep and bear arms) group but most are very anti.

 

[RustyShackelford]

cops, open carry ....

I'm curious to know how or why you "knew" clearly he wasn't a cop?
Detectives & sworn LE investigators in my metro area only seem to be armed or wear badges/ID about 30% of the time.
I'd add I have also seen detectives or federal agents wear badges & sidearms in restaurants or stores. It's normally low key & no one wigs out.

I used open carry for my M&P Compact .45acp in Nov/2013 for approx 3 weeks in rural PA. To me, it was just faster & easier to add a gun & mag holder then go about my day then re-arrange my clothing choices to conceal my .45acp pistol.
It was cold weather & snowing a lot so concealed-open carry was really a non issue. If I lived in the same place year round I'd pack a S&W J frame revolver or a Shield 9mm in a strong side retention holster.
Weapon snatches or security would be concerns for open carry but I've had handguns slip out or slide off more than anything, .

 

[BSA1]

Folks in my part of the Merry Old Land of OZ are pretty relaxed about open carry.

I think the current resistance and negative indication surrounding OC stems from those who carry rifles into these places... If the guy at the restaurant you were at had an AR15 slung around his arm, I'm willing to bet that people would be a little more on edge...

Just as it has taken a long time to disprove the anti's claims about bloodbaths in the streets when conceal carry laws started to be passed and getting the general public comfortable with seeing guns it is going to take a while to change attitudes about open carry of long guns. The media is actually working to change attitudes in our favor with their constant reporting of terrorist attacks, beheadings and the recent attack by two terrorists in Texas.

i never thought open carry made much sense

the point of carrying my gun is to protect myself, why would i show anyone who potentially seeks to do me harm;

1) that i have it

2) where it is

The biggest reason for me is flexibility and comfort. During cold weather it allows me to remove my coat to avoid getting too hot when inside a building. During our long hot 90-100+ degree days anything more than a tee, polo or light shirt is just to dang hot to wear.

In addition maybe the sight of my firearm may convince the poor misguided person to reconsider his profession.

 

[Ankeny]

Most liberals do want guns banned.

I disagree, but that's a topic for another thead.

There are plenty of open vs. concealed carry threads, and I think the point the OP os trying to make is that the sky isn't going to fall if a person open carries. In my state concealed carry doesn't require a permit. When people OC folks around here raise their eyebrows and wonder what's the point?

 

[jmr40]

Times are changing. OC is becoming much more common and people are accepting it. For the most part I don't care much either way as long as those who do so act responsibly. So far I'm not aware of any issues here in Georgia. I just picked up my mom, took her out for breakfast and to the grocery store. Saw 2 people open carrying before 9 AM.

 

[RustyShackelford]

open carry ....

I think if more gun owners used open carry it will be less significant or fewer people would be alarmed by it.
It's like cell phones. In the 1980s/early 1990s, it was rare to see anyone carrying or using a cellular phone.
Now they are common and people use them all the time.

If someone uses open carry they should be mature & responsible just like if they had a CCW gun. I do not see any reason to wear political or aggressive type clothing then expect passers by to ask you about your beliefs or your firearm. That "peacock" mentality doesn't help or support 2A/gun rights IMO.
To be clear, by aggressive I mean things like I don't call 911 or Fight crime, shoot back!
I own & wear gun t shirts(Glock, S&W, etc) but they are logos or brands nothing that stands out.

 

[Tirod]

I'm reading a lot of fearmongering and class warfare into some of the comments.

The debate over use of a retention holster will probably go on longer than whether one or the other would Open Carry. I put the comment in the same class as "racking the shotgun."

Whether you choose to Open Carry, or not, make it on an assessment of whether it would do you any good. I can see where it would be negative for me - not tactically, but socially, as many would go out of their way to point out I didn't have the ability or skills. How they make that assessment having never met me before is always an interesting accomplishment on their part. They see to divine my past and skill levels entirely by looking at me and making assumptions.

A lot of you have that same issue. All too many of the more vocal citizens in life like to tell us what we can and can't do. It all plays to the disarmament lobby - so I'm not going to tell anyone they can't Open Carry. Do so all you want.

 

[RustyShackelford]

open or concealed ....

I honestly do not care if a citizen/gun owner chooses to carry open or concealed.
I carry my M&P Shield 9mm concealed because I'm mandated by statue.
If open carry was "street legal", I'd carry my handguns that way maybe 80-90% of the time.
I would not engage or remark on other citizens who might open carry or have guns either. It's not a big deal to me & not a concern unless the gun owner/open carry was reckless or obnoxious.

CSM Kyle Lamb(US Army special ops: E9/retired), a well known instructor & tactics-gun industry writer does not advocate open carry or carrying rifles-shotguns around. His points are valid but others may choose to carry(where legal or allowed).
If a stranger or restaurant patron asked me about guns or CCW-carry laws I'd give brief, concise replies then keep going. If some street thug or bum approached me or wanted to "size" me up, I'd leave or ignore them.

 

[Malamute]

The subject tends to bring out some strong feelings, sometimes seemingly pretty personal emotions.

I carried openly for years, it was the only legal way to carry at the time and place. I figured it was a deterrant. At this point, I'm not sure if thats true, or at least universally. I now prefer to be discrete when carrying unless out in the hills or mountains. I wish it didnt cause alarm among some, but it does. Thats not my only reservation, just sayin'.

His paraphrased comment on this notion was that in about a decade of working on criminal cases involving a firearm, and studying cases of self defense shootings, he had never seen a case where the criminal specifically targeted a open carrying citizen to remove them from the fight. He said that in suspect interviews after trial, he had often heard that if a criminal entered an area with intent to rob/steal/whatever, and they saw an open carrying individual, they typically left to avoid a potentially troublesome situation, or a murder charge. The lawyer did not specify how many individuals said this though.

The bottom line was that he felt open carry was in fact the best deterrent there was to criminals attacking you, or committing a crime around you. Obviously nothing is 100% though.

On another forum, a number of LEO's commented on the then current story about a guy being robbed of his openly carried gun. Several guys knew of that happening in other places. One guy, from a large city, said he knew of 3 such instances in his city.

 

[Snyper]

His paraphrased comment on this notion was that in about a decade of working on criminal cases involving a firearm, and studying cases of self defense shootings, he had never seen a case where the criminal specifically targeted a open carrying citizen to remove them from the fight.

That only speaks to his personal knowledge, and not if it takes place.

http://breakingnewsusa.com/2014/10/07/open-carry-enthusiasts-gun-stolen-at-gunpoint/

An open carry enthusiast had his gun stolen from him.

William Coleman III of Gresham, Oregon, was robbed of his Walther-brand P22 handgun. The gun was stolen by a young man who walked up to Coleman, pulled out his own gun, and said, “I like your gun. Give it to me.”

Coleman handed the man his gun, then the man ran away with the recently purchased P22.

 

[Speedo66]

When I carry, I carry for self defense as I presume most do. In a conflict, the element of surprise is everything. I'm not giving that up by open carrying.

Want to look cool open carrying, do it in your house.

 

[RustyShackelford]

open carry, crime rate ....

I think the LE concern or the apprehension on the part of gun owners to open carry is not really needed in all areas or places.
If you are on some urban street corner at 330am you might be in a situation where a open carry gun could be snatched or stolen but(as in most gun owners/armed citizens) you're not going into areas or be in places where criminal activity is likely or where some crook-felon will pounce on you to grab your OCed pistol, .
In the mid 2000s, a licensed(trained) armed guard in my metro area was robbed of his weapons, badge, cell phone etc. He was working in a high crime area, when 2 clever robbers targeted him. They did a "hey can you give me directions?" ruse then when the friendly guard offered to help, they pulled guns out . The robbers were never captured or convicted either.
As with a CCW or concealed weapon, if you elect to open carry, you need to have due dillegence & be aware of your surroundings.

RS

 

[xxjumbojimboxx]

When I carry, I carry for self defense as I presume most do. In a conflict, the element of surprise is everything. I'm not giving that up by open carrying.

Want to look cool open carrying, do it in your house.

Words like that do nothing for our cause. Thanks!


The "Element of surprise" doesn't mean a damn thing when someone is attacking you. Are you a top secret assassin? I hope not.

I would much rather have my gun easily accessible, for a good fast draw, than have the element of surprise.

On top of that, I used to work for an alarm company. When you have an alarm notification sign in your yard it takes your odds of being broken into throught a lifetime from 1-10 down to 1-60. Criminals pick easy targets. Someone wielding a gun is not an easy target.

 

[Red Wind]

Want to look cool open carrying, do it in your house.

Yeah, I just looked in the bedroom mirror. My Smith 686P .357 Mag does look very cool!

But being in Florida, I can't leave the confines of my lovely house, unless camping, fishing or hunting. Maybe.

 

[tyeo098]

People show their true colors when they tell others how to live.
Me open carrying harms no one else. Am I a target? A deterrent? Who knows, and more importantly, why do you care?

 

[22-rimfire]

Well today, (5/29/15) in a popular buffet restaurant, during the evening dinner crowds, I observed an open carry. A casually dressed man, dark pants, white/blue plaid shirt, was filling his plate, many people around him, and not one person freaked out!! Was toting a 1911 in a high rise holster, and he was clearly not an off duty policeman. Times are a changing, much to the chagrin of the bleeding heart liberals. I choose to carry concealed, but in the great state of OKLAHOMA, it is legal to open carry!

Open carry in an urban environment takes some getting used to. I suspect you were likely to see a lot of open carry people at the civil demonstration in front of the mosque yesterday in AZ. But I never heard anything more about it other than on CNN before the event. I think you need to keep it concealed.

Just recently responded to a survey which asked specific questions about firearm carry and law.

 

[tomrkba]

Here is why OC makes sense:

1) Most states have turned concealed carry into a taxed and regulated privilege. Open carry is the actual expression of the right to keep and bear arms in many states with open carry.

2) It protects concealed carriers if they accidentally reveal their gun.

3) Protects people from frivolous charges should they use a firearm in self-defense or for other purpose such as hunting.