Speedo66
Member
I'm not permitted to answer that.
Open Carry
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Mainsail
Member
The so-called element of surprise applies to both open and concealed carry. After all, the mugger/robber/rapist will not know you're armed when he formulates his attack plan.
- Open carry springs its surprise before the attack.
- Concealed carry springs its surprise after the attack has begun.
It's up to you to decide whether you'd rather let your surprise send the bad guy off to look for an easier target or surprise him after he has already begun his attack.
The people that are robbed, mugged, or raped all have one thing in common- they all look exactly like a person carrying a concealed handgun.
RustyShackelford
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magic wands ....
I'd add not to assume when you open carry all hobgoblins, thugs or ex-cons will shrill & scurry away... .
Lethal force incidents/line of duty deaths(not traffic or vehicle accidents) of US law enforcement officers have increased about 89% in the last 2 years,
.
Doing uniformed security work, I've seen subjects both intoxicated & seemingly normal turn violent & aggressive.
Research "Flakka" or "gravel" these new potent street drugs cause users to wig out & turn berserk.
Your shiney custom 1911a1 in a $300.00 exotic leather holster isn't going to impress or scare some strung out junkie.
I'd add not to assume when you open carry all hobgoblins, thugs or ex-cons will shrill & scurry away...
.Lethal force incidents/line of duty deaths(not traffic or vehicle accidents) of US law enforcement officers have increased about 89% in the last 2 years,
.Doing uniformed security work, I've seen subjects both intoxicated & seemingly normal turn violent & aggressive.
Research "Flakka" or "gravel" these new potent street drugs cause users to wig out & turn berserk.
Your shiney custom 1911a1 in a $300.00 exotic leather holster isn't going to impress or scare some strung out junkie.
This I disagree with. 1) as someone concealed carrying I get to chose the situation to present my firearm. If two guys walk into a convenience store with shotguns and ski masks, and I'm standing in line, OC I'm a target, CC I'm just another patron. I get to chose wether and when I respond. 2)The perps have to worry about the 6 or 7 other people in the store, not just the one guy who was OC. 3) While I agree someone carrying openly is less likely to be a target, it is my feeling that when they are a target the criminals are always the ones who chose the location and time of the confrontation. And they are likely to be far more hardened criminals.
I have no objections to OC of handguns. If you want to carry do so, it offers some advantages and disadvantages. But 1) get a damn good holster with a minimum of level II retention 2) Be super aware, because if a bad situation presents itself you are almost required to use your gun wether you have the advantage or not.
BSA1
member
Why?
So you are saying that someone that is carrying concealed can be less alert and have less situational awareness that someone that open carries.
How does how I carry a firearm have to do with making me use a firearm?
There are so many statements being tossed around concerning firearms that just don't make sense. One of those is the idea that if a criminal sees a person carrying a gun he'll target that person first.
Where has this ever been the case? It doesn't make sense. Do we tell people to look timid and weak when they walk through the bad part of town at night?
I think carrying concealed makes good sense most of the time, but I don't think open carry is as tactically unsound as most make it out to be.
Where has this ever been the case? It doesn't make sense. Do we tell people to look timid and weak when they walk through the bad part of town at night?
I think carrying concealed makes good sense most of the time, but I don't think open carry is as tactically unsound as most make it out to be.
matrem
Member
No doubt each of us have our own reasons for carrying a firearm, as well as how we carry it based on our own perspective of how best to protect ourselves or others around us.
Anybody doing it for attention gets zero comment from me.
Years of thinking about what's best for most of my situations, still leaves a gun under a shirt.
Anybody doing it for attention gets zero comment from me.
Years of thinking about what's best for most of my situations, still leaves a gun under a shirt.
I retired after over 30 years as a LEO, most of it as a plainclothes investigator. I never saw the logic involved by LEOs in plainclothes OC on or off duty. More so in jurisdictions where OC is not allowed by everyone. I thought the reason for the plainclothes was so people didn't know you were a cop.
The reason you want an extra level of retention are the same reasons LE wants extra retention. You don't want a bad guy to be able to snatch your gun from your holster easily wether in struggle or in a snatch and run in a crowded public location.
No I'm not saying someone carrying concealed should be less aware, but open carrying means you have to conscious of the fact that a seen firearm escalates a situation. There is a reason the Secret Service conceal carries in protection situations. They don't want the bad guys to know what firearm they have and where they have it. When OC, you are giving away that advantage.
The answer to question three is quite simple really. If an armed robber enters a convenience store, a concealed carrier can chose not to present his firearm if the situation is not tactically advantageous. IF you are open carrying, you are either going to have to use it or hand it over to the bad guys.
Zaydok Allen
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Right, and that's why I said nothing is 100%. It was only one lawyer's opinion. The bottom line is a gun is a thing of value. If you carry it openly in a way that a criminal can see, that criminal may just try to rob you of that valuable item.
Zaydok Allen
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I agree Snyper. That's why I said I wasn't advocating anything, only sharing that one lawyer's opinion. Truth be told, he was pretty young, and a decade is not a long time to be practicing law. AND it was only in the state of Utah I believe. So take it as an anecdote.
Hammer059
Member
I open carry 4 days a week; the days when I'm not at my job where I'm a chef (and it would get in the way). I've only had someone mention my gun to me twice: once when it prompted a gas station employee to ask me how to get a CC permit; the second time I was carrying my Ruger 22/45 after the range and a taco bell employee asked me if it was a "dart gun" Normally I carry a Glock 17 when I OC.
I pocket carry when I'm at both of my part-time jobs though, because it would be a nuisance to have a gun on my hip. I'm also a part time college student and due to rules regarding carry of firearms on campus, I pocket carry there.
Normally I carry a Glock 17 when I OC.I pocket carry when I'm at both of my part-time jobs though, because it would be a nuisance to have a gun on my hip. I'm also a part time college student and due to rules regarding carry of firearms on campus, I pocket carry there.
Zaydok Allen
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I agree. I open carry when I feel like increasing my comfort level when I'm on a long hike. Am I likely to need any more firepower than when I'm walking the streets? No.
However, I do carry a larger gun with more firepower than I choose to conceal because why wouldn't I if I was open carrying? I don't think it is tactically unsound to open carry, and I don't care what other's choose to do so long as they do it in a safe manner.
When I open carry, I do use a retention holster, but only to keep my gun from slipping out while I'm crawling around on boulders.
If someone is carrying prominently with an obvious goal to display the fact that they are carrying, then they're an idiot in my book.
I carry to live. I do not live to carry.
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xxjumbojimboxx
Member
Hey Hammer. What kind of holster do you OC your 2245 in?
Hammer059
Member
JumboJimbo, I use the "Tactical Solutions" holster shown in the link provided. I'm very happy with it. I practice drawing from the holster a LOT at the range and so far there's no holster wear on the finish.
The gun fits very well and I actually have to put my left hand on the bottom of the holster while drawing to prevent from pulling my pants up with the gun, because the retention is pretty snug. It's really not inconvenient for me though, especially after all the practice I do with it.
When I'm in most vehicles, I sometimes unholster it and put it in the glove box. I have the 5.5" barreled model and the holster is a tad longer, and overall it's just a large/long handgun to carry while seated in a car. For hikes and the range, I highly recommend it. I also occasionally wear it when I take my dog for walks.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/42...ger-mark-i-mark-ii-mark-iii-22-45-kydex-black
The gun fits very well and I actually have to put my left hand on the bottom of the holster while drawing to prevent from pulling my pants up with the gun, because the retention is pretty snug. It's really not inconvenient for me though, especially after all the practice I do with it.
When I'm in most vehicles, I sometimes unholster it and put it in the glove box. I have the 5.5" barreled model and the holster is a tad longer, and overall it's just a large/long handgun to carry while seated in a car. For hikes and the range, I highly recommend it. I also occasionally wear it when I take my dog for walks.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/42...ger-mark-i-mark-ii-mark-iii-22-45-kydex-black
xxjumbojimboxx
Member
is there room for a fast fire on top?
RustyShackelford
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2 thugs with shotguns ....
The "2 thugs with shotguns" scenario is a highly unrealistic example for either OCers or those who elected CC.
They are going to burst in rush the cash register then cover the door/exit. Once they get the $$$ they will either; shoot at anyone who resists or isn't compliance or flee.
If you can't act or decide what you will do in those seconds, the bad guys/robbers will decide for you.
Take down or group attacks are common in my metro area. 3/4/5 thugs swarm in then rush the clerk/cash register. One or two might be outside as back up or drive a vehicle but not always.
The "2 thugs with shotguns" scenario is a highly unrealistic example for either OCers or those who elected CC.
They are going to burst in rush the cash register then cover the door/exit. Once they get the $$$ they will either; shoot at anyone who resists or isn't compliance or flee.
If you can't act or decide what you will do in those seconds, the bad guys/robbers will decide for you.
Take down or group attacks are common in my metro area. 3/4/5 thugs swarm in then rush the clerk/cash register. One or two might be outside as back up or drive a vehicle but not always.
Hammer059
Member
I'm pretty sure there is. I don't have any optics on mine, so I can't say for certain. But based on the reviews I've read of the holster, lots of people use them with various optics without a problem.
SigP229R
Member
I have mixed feelings on OC. It has always been legal in N.C as far as I know. It is however not common to see it anywhere much except hunting lands.
We still have a few up-tight liberals who would make a big thing out of it so, I just don't do it in order to keep down any to dos that might arise from it.
We still have a few up-tight liberals who would make a big thing out of it so, I just don't do it in order to keep down any to dos that might arise from it.
Red Wind
Member
Why did the young man look out of place? In Alabama. In Walmart.
TomJ
Contributing Member
When I worked as a patrolman, I was advised to buy the best holster I could. We had a brawl break out during a 4th of July festival. In the process of breaking it up, I felt someone grab my gun from behind and try to pull it out of my holster. Fortunately I listened to the advice I was given and they weren't able to get it out of the holster. Keeping BG's from taking your gun is why you need a good holster.
If the holster is moving your pants on the draw you need more belt. Go to a double weight belt that locks up tight. If you have to use two hands (one to hold down your holster) when you draw you will be in trouble in close quarters situation. You need you non drawing hand free to fend off an attacker.
The "2 thugs with shotguns" scenario is a highly unrealistic example for either OCers or those who elected CC.
They are going to burst in rush the cash register then cover the door/exit. Once they get the $$$ they will either; shoot at anyone who resists or isn't compliance or flee.
If you can't act or decide what you will do in those seconds, the bad guys/robbers will decide for you.
Take down or group attacks are common in my metro area. 3/4/5 thugs swarm in then rush the clerk/cash register. One or two might be outside as back up or drive a vehicle but not always.
I suspect most situations are uncommon that result in SD shootings. I just feel like that OC makes you a target in an armed robbery. Concealed carry gives you the option of waiting and deciding to present your weapon when you think it's best. Not every bad guy wants to use a gun, and most are concentrating on store employees and worried about the gun possibly hidden behind the counter in those siuations. I'd much rather have the bad guy or guys think I'm just another innocent bystander than to percieve me as a threat immediately.
The flip sid of this, and a plus for OC, is that if they case the place they may not act if they see someone open carrying. Car jackings are very common in the Detroit area, I suspect that if someone is open carrying they simply don't become a traget for a carjacker. I'm not saying OC is wrong, just that the tactical considerations are different.
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