GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL
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I don't know which one is stronger, Remington or Colt, but both of them are strong enough...
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Open top revolver durability
- Thread starter BCRider
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I know which one is sexier
Colt all the way
i've only put a few cylinders through my 1851 navy...but i was very surprised at the range to not have any probs whatsoever with the stock nipples/ Remington Number 10 caps, no jams, the recess in the frame seemed to allow the nipples to fall out each time i cocked it for another shot...didn't even have to put the gun at a funny angle.
edit- just so nobody gets upset, the remmy is pretty sweet too, i'll eventually have to pick one up as well.
Colt all the way
i've only put a few cylinders through my 1851 navy...but i was very surprised at the range to not have any probs whatsoever with the stock nipples/ Remington Number 10 caps, no jams, the recess in the frame seemed to allow the nipples to fall out each time i cocked it for another shot...didn't even have to put the gun at a funny angle.
edit- just so nobody gets upset, the remmy is pretty sweet too, i'll eventually have to pick one up as well.
NobleSniper
Member
Cannot pick Colt or Remington..............I am gonna have both of them
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madcratebuilder
Member
So that what's known as going both ways
OP
OP
BCRider
Member
I’m not disputing that.... At the same time I would point out that open-top revolvers didn’t disappear the minute later platforms were introduced.
... SASS, which is a fun game.
Besides the shooting part, SASS also promotes the history behind the guns, and cap & ball revolvers are an important part of that. ......
So it boils down to shooting whichever you like (or think you like) best.
Unfortunately, I like them all…
And that about sums it up nicely. Especially the part at the end about liking them all...
I'm thinking that if there's an issue with caps jamming the works then this can happen with a full frame as easily as with an open top. It would appear to be in the nature of the beast whenever there's nipples and caps to deal with. Is this not so?
Truth be told the two fellows shooting C&B at the event I attended didn't have any jamming at all in the 40 to 50 shots fired from what I saw. And I made it a point to watch the guns being used. One set was Remington and the other pair was the Walker and Army combo open top. So it would appear that while it may require a bit of homework that there's no reason why these guns can't be set up to be passably reliable.
I thank you all for your time and in a month or two once the mad money fund recovers you can count on seeing some fresh gun porn pics posted in this forum....
bigbadgun
Member
I think that is a very hard question to get a real answer to because I have both From a Walker down to a '51 and then I have a few remmies also I like them both. Its best what feels right in your hand really.
And there are others in my near future like I want '60 and a '61 but also want a Remmie with a 5.5 inch brl.
Darn there goes my addiction again:banghead: Oh well maybe I need a bigger gun case Thats the ticket a bigger gun case. LOL
And there are others in my near future like I want '60 and a '61 but also want a Remmie with a 5.5 inch brl.
Darn there goes my addiction again:banghead: Oh well maybe I need a bigger gun case
Thats the ticket a bigger gun case. LOLWhich is stronger? For a hammer, I'd choose a Remmie!! For lack of cap jamming, I'll use a Roger and spencer (one of the design features the Army liked when they ordered them). But for a sheer joy to hold, point and shoot gimme a Colt 1860. About CAS shooters, not many of them do more than CAS with their guns, on the otherhand, BP lovers frequently shoot, play with tweak and fondle their guns. As a result, they know what their individual beast(s), need to be dependable.
Fingers McGee
Member
Well, personnaly, I'll take Mary Ann over Ginger any day. 
My original advice to BC from about post number 3 to this thread stands. He should try as many different makes and models as he possibly can and choose what appeals to him and fits him the best.
Fingers (Who shoots Colt Navies 3-4 matches a month and really doesn't give a crap about what others shoot) McGee
PS. Colt made & sold over 340,000 Pocket models, 200,000 1860s and 215,000 1851 Navies between 1848 and 1872. More than any other manufacturer in the same period. Doesn't make them better; just more prolific.
My original advice to BC from about post number 3 to this thread stands. He should try as many different makes and models as he possibly can and choose what appeals to him and fits him the best.
Fingers (Who shoots Colt Navies 3-4 matches a month and really doesn't give a crap about what others shoot) McGee
PS. Colt made & sold over 340,000 Pocket models, 200,000 1860s and 215,000 1851 Navies between 1848 and 1872. More than any other manufacturer in the same period. Doesn't make them better; just more prolific.
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AdmiralB
Member
Patents have a way of making that happen. When you're the only one legally allowed to make revolvers, you tend to sell more than the competition, what?
CaptainCrossman - what am I doing wrong????
My open top Colts (2 Walkers, 2 Dragoons, 1 1851 Navy, 2 1860 Army's, 1 1862 Navy, 1 1862 Pocket Navy, 1 1862 Pocket Police) don't jam every cylinder. In fact, I can go several days with no cap jams at all.
I've been shooting open top Colts since 1973, and I've never modified them; you'd think by now I'd have seen some evidence of this problem. You sound like you have a great deal of experience in this area - can you help me figure out what I'm doing wrong?
My open top Colts (2 Walkers, 2 Dragoons, 1 1851 Navy, 2 1860 Army's, 1 1862 Navy, 1 1862 Pocket Navy, 1 1862 Pocket Police) don't jam every cylinder. In fact, I can go several days with no cap jams at all.
I've been shooting open top Colts since 1973, and I've never modified them; you'd think by now I'd have seen some evidence of this problem. You sound like you have a great deal of experience in this area - can you help me figure out what I'm doing wrong?
GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL
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Hey Mr. MyKeal!!! How you doing sir? Good to read you again. (tsk tsk my good man!) Well, God know's I have shot a Uberti Walker and a Uberti 1849 Colt Pocket .31 a lot in the blowing sand, in the rain and snow, in the ice and wind, and even in pretty weather conditions to, and God also know's I have had no, that is NO
problems. (except sometimes cold hands)
14th Alabama CSA..
problems. (except sometimes cold hands)
14th Alabama CSA..
BullRunBear
Member
Stick with a steel frame and get whatever model feels best in YOUR hand. For me, that was the Colt open top design but that is strictly a personal preference, not a right or wrong. I have very large hands and the Remington felt "crowded" (sorry, best I can come up with) and didn't point as well. When I was picking out a C&B revolver for my wife, who has small hands, I thought she would prefer the Remington, but she preferred the Colt 1860 Army. That's why we have two of them. I didn't want to share.
As for durability, any reputable maker of Colt or Remington should last more than a lifetime with basic maintenance. I rarely have cap jams in my Colts (never had one with the Ruger), maybe once in 200 shots. If the Colt design was as bad as CC said, who would stick with it?
Jeff
As for durability, any reputable maker of Colt or Remington should last more than a lifetime with basic maintenance. I rarely have cap jams in my Colts (never had one with the Ruger), maybe once in 200 shots. If the Colt design was as bad as CC said, who would stick with it?
Jeff
J.T. Gerrity
Member
Well stated and absolutely true.
comparison
This is a very interesting thread for me to read! Though I don't post much here, I read a lot and learn. I only have original CB revolvers, since there is a license needed for new weapons.
The Colt 1860, is greatly balanced, points naturally and has the looks of a true classic. I really like the grips they have, just a little to big for my girly small hands. Don't get much stuck caps either. Another good thing about open tops is a lot of crap will just blow out and away from the weapon instead of being able to get stuck on a top strap. Has very rudimentary sights, harder to master and shoot at paper than any other gun I've tried.
The Remington NM Army. I don't like the grips on this gun as much as the Colt or R&S. Otherwise this is my favourite when is comes to looks of the three arms. Like to be able to switch cylinders, just feels like a rugged gun. Has very good sights.
The Rogers&Spencer. Have never shot this gun yet, so I cannot say how it works. The grips on this gun are the best for me, of these three guns. The sights are quite easy to see. The most modern of these guns, with a gas ring for jam- free shooting. How does this gun handle cap fragments?
thats what I've learned so far. Happy Easters and all that
// Daniel
This is a very interesting thread for me to read! Though I don't post much here, I read a lot and learn. I only have original CB revolvers, since there is a license needed for new weapons.
The Colt 1860, is greatly balanced, points naturally and has the looks of a true classic. I really like the grips they have, just a little to big for my girly small hands. Don't get much stuck caps either. Another good thing about open tops is a lot of crap will just blow out and away from the weapon instead of being able to get stuck on a top strap. Has very rudimentary sights, harder to master and shoot at paper than any other gun I've tried.
The Remington NM Army. I don't like the grips on this gun as much as the Colt or R&S. Otherwise this is my favourite when is comes to looks of the three arms. Like to be able to switch cylinders, just feels like a rugged gun. Has very good sights.
The Rogers&Spencer. Have never shot this gun yet, so I cannot say how it works. The grips on this gun are the best for me, of these three guns. The sights are quite easy to see. The most modern of these guns, with a gas ring for jam- free shooting. How does this gun handle cap fragments?
thats what I've learned so far. Happy Easters and all that
// Daniel
Elbert P . Suggins
Member
In my humble opinion, I like the 58 Remington better for CAS. Because I can load extra cylinders and go to the reloading table and cap the cylinders and not hold up the show. Nobody even notices! But the real catch to this between comparing the two designs is in the cleaning. One of the earlier posters said the Colt is easier to clean and I haven't found that that to be true. On the Remington I remove the cylinder within a couple of seconds, remove the trigger plate with one screw and remove the grips with one screw. Throw it in the hot soap and water, scrub, and dry. With the Colt you do the remove wedgy thingy and remove 6 screws to remove the grips and trigger plate and putting these two firearms back together is not even comparable. The Colt is better balanced and both can be as accurate as you want them to be so no comparison there. The Remington top strap design WON OUT so why is there even a debate? And yes I have had more cap jams with the Colt than I have had with the Remington. This is a no BS post!
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BCRider
Member
In amongst all the sidelines i'm happy to say that the oringal questions have been answered. And that was, in case any of you forgot , a question about the durability of open top revolvers. I say, other troubles aside, that the opinion seems to be that they are just fine and will endure for many years of shooting without beating the parts out of shape any worse than any other gun.
And yes, I already had a thing for the 1860 Army Colt. I'm pretty sure I can develop a feel for how hard to secure the wedge for reliability in shooting but not ram it in so hard that the metal gets peened. I've worked with metalwork for many years and generally if the stuff and fasteners all fit there's seldom a need to beat the stuff to death or tighten until it breaks and then back up one turn.
About cleaning. Is it really neccessary to pull the action apart each time? I can see removing the barrel and cylinder so the cylinder and cylinder axle can be cleaned but does the powder residue really blast down into the lockwork? Or is this due to the blowby from the caps?
, a question about the durability of open top revolvers. I say, other troubles aside, that the opinion seems to be that they are just fine and will endure for many years of shooting without beating the parts out of shape any worse than any other gun.And yes, I already had a thing for the 1860 Army Colt. I'm pretty sure I can develop a feel for how hard to secure the wedge for reliability in shooting but not ram it in so hard that the metal gets peened. I've worked with metalwork for many years and generally if the stuff and fasteners all fit there's seldom a need to beat the stuff to death or tighten until it breaks and then back up one turn.
About cleaning. Is it really neccessary to pull the action apart each time? I can see removing the barrel and cylinder so the cylinder and cylinder axle can be cleaned but does the powder residue really blast down into the lockwork? Or is this due to the blowby from the caps?
Elbert, Why can't you carry spare cylinders for your colts? With a small rawhide mallet you can unseat your wedge pin,(provided it's set properly), pull off the barrel and reinstall a cylinder along with the bbl in actually the same or less time than you can on a Remmie. The time saver is that there is no blind "lining up" of the cylinder pin to the center hole in the cylinder. Clint Eastwood did it in a heartbeat....but I'll bet it took more than just a couple of takes to get it right for the camera.
I strip my guns down all the way for cleaning each time I use them. I've seen guns that weren't cleaned properly and sometimes it's not pretty. Plus, taking the gun all the way down is a good learning exercise - you get to know the gun, literally, inside and out very well, and when something comes up at the range, you can handle it easily. And little cap fragments have a way of hiding in the innards, and you gotta track 'em down.
I just bought an 1851 .36 that was made in 1862. The gun has been cared for and it's as tight and smooth as any modern repro.
Whether or not I fully strip the action and clean it depends on how many rounds I've fired and how long it will be until it's fired again.
If it's going to be more than about 7 - 10 days between uses I strip, clean and lubricate all the parts no matter how many rounds were fired.
If I've fired about 40-50 rounds, or if the action parts are sluggish/jerky then I strip, clean and lubricate all the parts regardless of when I expect to use the gun next.
If it's going to be more than about 7 - 10 days between uses I strip, clean and lubricate all the parts no matter how many rounds were fired.
If I've fired about 40-50 rounds, or if the action parts are sluggish/jerky then I strip, clean and lubricate all the parts regardless of when I expect to use the gun next.
Elbert P . Suggins
Member
SLTM1, you can do the quick change with the Colt with extras just not as fast. Clint did the change with a Remington design and it can be done in around 4 seconds. That is faster than using a speedloader in a newer design. And on cleaning, once you get the floor plate and grips off and run hot water thru the works and let soak for a few minutes in hot soapy water, then use a hair dryer inside and out to where it is too hot to handle you are CLEAN. Spray the internals with WD and wipe down with the same. I don't dissasemble mine for cleaning.
madcratebuilder
Member
Elbert, glad to see you back. You need to watch Jerry Miculek, he reloads in about .4 seconds. In fact he fires six, reloads, and fires six in under four seconds.
GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL
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Yes, an experienced person who has practiced a lot can change a '58 cylinder in just a matter of a few seconds. I know they say don't do it but I roll in fully loaded cylinders, capped and all and ready to go. I'vd never had a problem. (that's the whole idea behind changing cylinders fast anyway) You won't have any problems if you know what you're doing. I don't reccomend it though because most people don't know what they're doing..14th Alabama CSA.
Elbert P . Suggins
Member
I don't advice changing cylinders after they are capped but if you go straight in and not get it crooked you won't have any mishap. I had a oldtime shoe repairman build me a speed loader container for two cylinders for the 5 and 1/2 58 and I carry this most of the time for CCW. I never have a fail to fire or jam with this Uberti and it makes a big hole and you have 18 ready to fire and I can do this in under 30 seconds easy all day long.
Elbert P . Suggins
Member
Not putting down archery but God I love these black powder pistols. It's almost embarrasing sitting in front of the History or Western Channel fondling these things. My wife looks over and says "what is wrong with you anyway, have you lost your mind?" Some women will never understand about the important things in life.
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