Opening the door to unexpected visitors can go very wrong.....

[theotherwaldo]

Last I heard, Castle Doctrine in Texas begins at a latched front gate... .

Anyway, I'm tightening my security since there's another convoy of Hondurans heading our way. Last time, we had a couple messing around with our trucks and checking out our property.

Also had some try to pop our car doors open on two occasions when we were stopped in traffic. My sister always locks her doors when she drives and my doors lock when I put it in gear.

-And, of course, we're both armed.

 

[Craig_AR]

Last I heard, Castle Doctrine in Texas begins at a latched front gate... .

Caste Doctrine laws are not identical in every state. There are variations, including whether the law includes not only the home itself, but also nearby property, referred to as curtilage. Some even cover place of business, although maybe only for owners but not for employees. You really have to understand the specifics of both Castle Doctrine and SYG for your state. That is why Branca has a separate state-specific course for each state to supplement his full Law of Self Defense course.
As for Texas, reading Branca's Law of Self Defense (3rd ed.), Table 5-1, p. 224, Texas does seem to have one of the broader no duty to retreat laws, covering Castle (dwelling), Castle+ (curtilage), Castle++ (business), Castle+++ (vehicle), as well as "anywhere you have a right to be" (full SYG).
That said, I think we would need competent legal advice on whether a trespasser on your property can be considered a deadly threat solely by being there, without other indication of ability and intent to harm. Further. does simply opening a latched gate to enter the property constitute forcible entry? I rather doubt that, but again, IANAL.

Craig

 

[theotherwaldo]

No, I don't feel that I have the right to harm someone for entering my yard or poking around my property.
I DO feel that I have the right to ask their intentions over the P/A system and direct them to leave if they cannot provide a reason for being there.
If the trespasser becomes aggressive and escalates the situation then that is a different set of problems.

 

[Kleanbore]

Last I heard, Castle Doctrine in Texas begins at a latched front gate...

What that means is that one who is inside his gated yard is not required to retreat before using deadly force to protect himself from the actual or imminent use of deadly force--which would be lawful only if all of the other elements of justification were present.

 

[upptick]

No, I don't feel that I have the right to harm someone for entering my yard or poking around my property.
I DO feel that I have the right to ask their intentions over the P/A system and direct them to leave if they cannot provide a reason for being there.
If the trespasser becomes aggressive and escalates the situation then that is a different set of problems.

I think having a fenced property with a roaming (guard) dog puts an interesting spin on things too. In some jurisdictions, the trespasser would have a degree of protection and the property owner would have a duty of care toward the trespasser; in others, the home owner would have no duty to protect the trespasser and if he gets bit, it's on him. In virtually all jurisdictions, however, if a homeowner shoots someone who is not posing an immediate deadly threat, the homeowner would be in serious hot water.

 

[Kleanbore]

That said, I think we would need competent legal advice on whether a trespasser on your property can be considered a deadly threat solely by being there, without other indication of ability and intent to harm

The answer is NO.

In Texas, it is lawful to employ reasonable non-deadly force to terminate trespass. if it is immediately necessary.

Deadly force? No.

 

[DeepSouth]

What would you intend to do with it? Are you under the imperssion that it might somehow keep you from getting shot?

Not under the impression that it would keep me from getting shot, although since you brought it up, I suppose that is one possibility.

So far as what I intend to do with it, well I don’t know because I don’t know the circumstances at the door/in the yard, which is kind of the point. I HAVE used it to shoot possums, armadillos, and at a coyote once but didn’t hit it. Also (and where you wanted me to go to start with) in the unlikely event an ill intention human was there I may need to (God forbid) return fire, or stop them from coming in my house, or a myriad of other things, again, depending on the circumstances.

 

[Kleanbore]

in the unlikely event an ill intention human was there I may need to (God forbid) return fire, or stop them from coming in my house, or a myriad of other things

There are much safer ways to respond to a caller.

 

[DeepSouth]

There are much safer ways to respond to a caller.

no doubt, when it’s a caller I just answer the phone.

In all seriousness, I don’t know of a better way that works in reality.

 

[Kleanbore]

no doubt, when it’s a caller I just answer the phone.

In all seriousness, I don’t know of a better way that works in reality.

I don't know of a worse one.

 

[DeepSouth]

I don't know of a worse one.

Thanks for being so helpful

 

[Kleanbore]

Thanks for being so helpful

There have been a number of very helpful suggestions in the thread, and in other threads on this subject.

 

[DeepSouth]

There have been a number of very helpful suggestions in the thread, and in other threads on this subject.

Guess we can disagree on that.
Peoples situations are different what may work for one doesn’t necessarily work for all, and I have really seen a workable idea that would apply to my situation.

 

[Kleanbore]

Peoples situations are different what may work for one doesn’t necessarily work for all, and I have really seen a workable idea that would apply to my situation.

So, your idea is to do something that you do not believe likely to keep you from getting shot, or to try to return fire if you are shot, and perhaps to shoot at possums and armadillos....

Why would doing something other than exposing yourself at the door not work better than that in "your situation"?

 

[DeepSouth]

So, your idea is to do something that you do not believe likely to keep you from getting shot, or to try to return fire if you are shot, and perhaps to shoot at possums and armadillos....

Why would doing something other than exposing yourself at the door not work better than that in "your situation"?

I think the only way to completely remove the possibility of getting shot would be to be able to predict the future, or possibly be faster than a bullet, neither of which apply to me.

I don’t know of a way to fully access most of my situations without exposure.

fwiw: “my situation” is normally wife hears something, like a knock, and I do not hear anything.
No one will sleep until the situation has been fully investigated.
so far I’d say 80% of the time it’s nothing
20% of the time it’s a animal of some form
0% of the time it’s a human

 

[P89DCSS]

I think the only way to completely remove the possibility of getting shot would be to be able to predict the future, or possibly be faster than a bullet, neither of which apply to me.

I don’t know of a way to fully access most of my situations without exposure....

Pssst, camera surveillance system. Allows you to see whats going on outside with exposing your position. I just installed an 8 camera system, 1080p, with on-site storage for under $400. No monthly fee.

 

[DeepSouth]

Pssst, camera surveillance system. Allows you to see whats going on outside with exposing your position. I just installed an 8 camera system, 1080p, with on-site storage for under $400. No monthly fee.

That’s a great idea and I plan on doing it when I build a new house in a couple years. It MIGHT even calm the wife, sometimes.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

I am an apartment dweller, use the peephole, also,look through the kitchen window. I have a front door and a storm door, the front door opens inward, the storm door opens outward, in addition to providing an extra barrier it seems to me you open it abruptly you could knock an assailant off his feet.
How about a Dutch door ? Provides an extra barrier, makes it easier to conceal a handgun in the hand or a long gun within reach.

 

[P89DCSS]

That’s a great idea and I plan on doing it when I build a new house in a couple years. It MIGHT even calm the wife, sometimes.

It pretty easy to set up a camera system with rechargeable batteries that use a wifi router to send the video data. Same thing for doorbell cameras.

I am an apartment dweller, use the peephole....

There are peephole cameras that work like doorbell cameras. Rechargeable batteries, camera and two way audio.

 

[Kleanbore]

How about a Dutch door ? Provides an extra barrier, makes it easier to conceal a handgun in the hand or a long gun within reach.

Taking a gun to the door entails risks of all kinds, and it mitigates none very effectively.

 

[Blue Jays]

Heck...if my doorbell were to unexpectedly ring now, I would ensure I was not looking through the peephole.
If it were a genuine criminal baddie, that is precisely where they will hope one is standing at that moment.

My sense is evaluating from an unknown spot elsewhere (either upstairs window or via camera) is the technique that leaves the visitor with the least amount of information. Homeowners are not beholden to visitors.

If a member of my family calls and says "they will be arriving in 20 minutes"...in that situation I will approach door when I hear the knock or doorbell...yet even then I will take a 2-second glance through peephole to verify it is indeed them before unlocking and opening.

 

[gnappi]

Suspect, victim killed after chaotic burglary turned homicide in Denver

https://www.denverpost.com/2020/12/29/denver-police-shooting-burglary-homicide/



The perps killed the homeowner, shot the daughter in the head, she's critical. Then the cops arrived in the middle of the mayham. The perps ran through the streets trying to jump in cars. One found an unlocked car door and jumped in. Poor lady had to be scared when a cop sent the perp to his just rewards, doa.

Moral of the story, never answer the door to unexpected visitors and keep your car doors locked.

I answer the door all the time to strangers, with a .40 Beretta at 5 o'clock behind me.

I answered the door one night to two "policemen" (I could see their uniforms in my video system) but since some have taken to impersonating officers I still answered armed. When after opening the door I saw the blue lights on the car and the legit officers from my city PD I told the officer, "Stand by while I put my pistol away" I went out and it seems as if the 911 system flagged my address on the wrong street. I bet that was a first for those officers

 

[Kleanbore]

I answer the door all the time to strangers, with a .40 Beretta at 5 o'clock behind me.

What do you intend to do with it?

Do you think you would be able to stop gunfire with it?

 

[gnappi]

What do you intend to do with it?

Do you think you would be able to stop gunfire with it?

??? The second my door is ripped from my hand...SFAQL.

What YOU would do is entirely irrelevant.

 

[Kleanbore]

SFAQL.

What?