Opinions on auction & fund-raising banquet?

[Monkeyleg]

Yes, I'm still working on fund-raisers.

At least one of them will be a banquet where we'll have guns for auction.

The guns will be purchased from a couple of local shops at cost plus $10 to cover the time for paperwork. The WCCM's "profit" will be whatever the guns sell for minus the shops' costs.

The ideal would be for me to buy the guns from the shop, go through the NICS check myself, and then treat them as private transfers after auction, so people could take them home with them that night. If that's not illegal, though, it's getting awfully close.

The shops want to have one of their employees take the guns to the banquet, watch over them, then have the winners of the auction come to the store sometime in the following days to go through the background check. Also, WI has a 48 hour waiting period on handguns.

Massad Ayoob will be the guest speaker. Given that this is a fund-raiser for CCW in WI, and that Ayoob is such a great speaker, I'm thinking that $75 for a dinner wouldn't be out of line. Your thoughts?

I'm also thinking that the $75 dinner ticket price would apply to a person's bid on an auction item. That might make the $75 price a bit more attractive.

Also, I have almost unlimited choice of guns to auction off: Bushmasters, Les Baer's, Ed Brown's, Wilson's, Kimbers...whatever I want.

I'm thinking, though, that not that many people will be able to bid on a $2000 pistol.

Any thoughts as to what guns would get bid up well?

The banquet is in July, but I'd like to get everything set right now.

Any and all opinions much appreciated.

 

[bedlamite]

The ideal would be for me to buy the guns from the shop, go through the NICS check myself, and then treat them as private transfers after auction, so people could take them home with them that night. If that's not illegal, though, it's getting awfully close.

Bad idea, that's a legal nightmare. Get a FFL or 2 there to do the transfers. If it's a rifle/shotgun, they can take it with them that day, and Anyone that wins a pistol won't mind an hour or two drive to pick it up 2 days later, or they can choose to transfer it to an FFL of their choosing.

I'd run it just like a DU banquet, dinner ticket gets you in the door and one ticket for the door prizes, then sell raffle tickets for the rest.

 

[Rembrandt]

On the events I've been involved with, ticket price is bumped 50-100% of your cost. (ie: If all your costs for meals, speaker, guns, etc come to $25 per person....then charge $50 per ticket). Offer a special rate if buying multiple tickets.

Best to have tickets pre-sold so a number count for food can be reached. Food people will pin you down for a head count commitment. The BIG MONEY MAKER at banquets is a well stocked bar. Some events you can make as much on alcohol as the auctions.

Enlist volunteers from a local soriety to help sell raffle tickets....guys get all stupid and start flashing their money around when a pretty smile in an evening gown asks for a donation.

People will pay the money knowing the proceeds go to a good cause....but make sure they have a good time, good food, and a chance to win something nice.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

A couple thoughts coming from a FNRA committee member:

1. The dealers are right. The winners should go through the background check and pick up the firearms later at the dealer. "Legal Nightmare" as described above if you do it any other way.

2. $75 per dinner would never fly around here. We get gripes at $25 per meal. Make sure you give them their money's worth on dinner, too. No paper plates, real silverware, real tablecloths. If you want to attract quality clientele, and bring them back, serve a quality meal. *disclaimer* Since you have Massad Ayoob as a speaker, I would gladly pay the $75.

3. High dollar guns are a risk. Most people won't recognize them as such. "Them 1911's cost $450 at the local gunstore" You get the drift. What we have had good luck with are Henry Golden Boys (as an added incentive, try to get the local trophy dealer to engrave "1st annual xxx Fundraiser 2006" on the reciever), AR-15's, the latest S&W 'super magnum', a nice hunting rifle (something in 7mm Rem Mag maybe, but with this being 2006, get something nice in 30-06 and sell it as a "Centennial Model"). Ruger Mark II or III, blued, with the white grips are a crowd pleaser. Any 1911 will sell tickets, as will anything new (think Springfield XD-45). Also new calibers, we have had great luck with anything in .17 HMR for the last couple years. "Flash" is what brings the dollars in at these events.

4. Maybe you ought to PM me. I've spent countless hours debating the above suggestions in meetings. We have pretty much figured out what works and what doesn't.

People will pay the money knowing the proceeds go to a good cause....but make sure they have a good time, good food, and a chance to win something nice.

Very wise advice. Please heed.

And now is not too early to plan for a July event. In fact you have your work cut out for you.

I'll think of more...

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

One I forgot about, and this one is always a winner:

Buy a j-frame LadySmith and 48 fake roses from Hobby Lobby or whatever. Staple a ticket to each rose and sell them for $20 each, winner gets the LadySmith.

The guys will stumble all over themselves to buy a rose for their lady and a chance to win the LadySmith for her. We always sell out in minutes.

$960 for less than a $400 investment, and everybody's happy, even the ones ending up with a $20 rose.

 

[Monkeyleg]

A couple of things: raffles or other games of chance are illegal for a political event.

The idea of having young nubile females is obvious. Given that this is an event for concealed carry though, and in a pretty liberal state, they may be hard to find. Hunter Rose, where are you??

Don't know about getting a cut from the sale of beer and booze. The banquet halls around here seem to require their bar, their bartenders, and their stock. I suspect they're low-balling the dinner price a bit, knowing that they'll make the rest up on bar sales.

Just doing some very rough numbers here: 200 guests at $75 each = $15,000. Assume $37.50 for the meal, and we're down to $7500.

Assuming 30 guns with a "profit" of $100 each, that's $3000.

Total is $10,500.

I know that the DU dinners, Sierra Club dinners, and other banquets for the well-heeled crowd bring in four or five times that much.

And assuming 200 guests at $75 each is risky. We had Massad Ayoob here back in 2002 for a banquet at $35 per person, and got roughly 225 guests.

All I'm trying to do is raise as much money as possible in as short a period as possible. Having many volunteers work many hours for just a few K doesn't make sense.

Any further advice is very much appreciated.

 

[mpthole]

raffles or other games of chance are illegal for a political event.

Dick, is there a way this can be organized so its not "political"? Can't it just be a fund raiser for WCCA? DU, Whitetails Unlimited, etc bring in plenty of money as you stated - aren't they political in a way?

 

[Strings]

>The idea of having young nubile females is obvious. Given that this is an event for concealed carry though, and in a pretty liberal state, they may be hard to find. Hunter Rose, where are you??<

Right here, Dick. I can guarantee Spoon (who is saying she's either not young, nubile, or female. I married this woman WHY again?). And I can dig up more volunteers (I think). Heck... we could probably talk to some of the college kids, and HIRE some sorority girls by providing dinner...

 

[Monkeyleg]

mpthole, this is a fund raiser for our political action committee.

Maximum contribution to Mark Green for governor is $43,128. Maximum contribution for attorney general (JB Van Hollen or Paul Bucher) is $21,560. Maximum contribution for state senator is $1000, and for assembly $500.

That's a lot of money to be raised.

To be honest, I don't know what the WCCA would do with that money that would be more effective than having the WCCM (our PAC) contribute to the candidates.

Also, Ducks Unlimited draws an entirely different crowd, a crowd that wouldn't be interested in Massad Ayoob.

I'm hoping to "persuade" one of the shotgun types in the WCCA to put on a trap/skeet event--again, possibly with guns for auction--that would attract the DU crowd.

 

[StopTheGrays]

Another venue idea

I helped with a fundraising committee and we have had a very good response from The Brentwood Country club in Milwaukee. They were willing to do a very nice banquet for closer to $25 a plate. Something to think about if they are interested in helping your cause.

 

[Monkeyleg]

StopTheGrays: I have two banquet halls I'm looking at, one very nice, and one very, very nice.

The first wants roughly $21 per person, including food, gratuity, and sales tax.

The second wants $33 per person, including the above charges.

Back in 2002, I really messed up by listening to people who said that we should only charge $35 a plate for a banquet with Massad Ayoob as guest speaker.

Now that CCW is really on the front burner, I just don't think that $75 for a dinner, a speech by Massad, and an auction of two or three dozen guns is an outrageous price.

Before committing to any hall, I'd like to check out as many as possible. I'll check out Brentwood as well.

 

[StopTheGrays]

I would think $75 a plate is reasonable to charge for food/speaker/auction per person who attends.

I do have concerns about a gun auction. It is hard for me to see people bidding more on a firearm than what they could go to Gander Mountain and buy one for themselves. Unless your source got them on some special deal I do not see how WCCA can make a worthwhile profit. (I am sorry I cannot think of a better alternative.)


Can you create a separate org whose sole purpose is to raise money and then have that org donate money to WCCA? Is there anything stopping individuals raising money on their own and then donating it to WCCA?

 

[MGLouie]

Can you create a separate org whose sole purpose is to raise money and then have that org donate money to WCCA? Is there anything stopping individuals raising money on their own and then donating it to WCCA?

I've been wondering the same thing.

Monkeyleg, what is the max amount an organization can donate to the WCCM? Could an organization hold a fund raiser to buy the guns and donate them to the WCCA/WCCM for auction?

That way the WCCA/WCCM keeps all monies raised at the auction without the possibility of loosing money on the gun.

Wisconsin politics:banghead:

 

[AJ Dual]

Can you create a separate org whose sole purpose is to raise money and then have that org donate money to WCCA? Is there anything stopping individuals raising money on their own and then donating it to WCCA?

If you tried to do it for the Political Action comittie or PAC, the WCCM (which is what Dick's interested in raising funds for at this time...) I'd bet you dollars to doughnuts that would be "Conspiracy to violate WI election law." etc. etc. etc. Dick can tell you more about what a legal tightrope being the treasurer for the WCCA and WCCM is, if he cares to.

There is nothing stopping individuals from raising money though. IIRC, individual donations to PAC's are limited to $1000 dollars. (Correct me if I'm wrong Dick...)

And a BIG +1 on following the advice of the gun stores and having them do a full NICS and transfer on the firearms. Persoonal transfers would be WI legal, but If you thought Spivak & Bice's hit piece on the planned machinegun shoot was bad... Also, this way you can try to work it out with the shops so that the WCCM dosen't have to buy any guns that don't meet the reserve.

To be sure they sell, I would go for low cost firearms that also have a bearing on CCW. Kel-Tec, Ruger, Taurus etc. With a few high-end/high price attention getters for the high rollers if any. I also think you want to make the bids public so that people get competitive and drive up the price. A silent auction would depress the earnings, IMO.

I would also take a hard look at auctioning other desireable gun-related items like holsters, ammo, cleaning kits, gun club memberships, gun training or classes (If donated, 100% profit!), SureFire tactical flashlights, high-end pepper spray etc. That will give the WCCM the opportunity to get a few extra bucks from those who had to scrape up the $75 (like me ) to come to the banquet in the first place, and can't afford a realistic bid on a gun right now, even at cost.

 

[Monkeyleg]

StopTheGrays, we'll be getting the guns at cost, plus sales tax. So people will be able to buy the guns at a fair price and we'll still make money. I'm hoping that people will see the value in paying more for a gun than Gander would charge, though, realizing that the additional $$ is going to a good cause.

As for an organization or a bunch of individuals buying the guns and then contributing...no can do. Illegal.

State election law is set up so that every contribution can be linked to the name and address of the person who contributed. If a group of people got together and bought a gun to contribute, each member of the group would have to be reported. And the person who organized the group would have to register as a political action committee.

On the other hand, if an individual contributed a gun to the WCCM, I would report that as an in-kind contribution, and report a fair market value for the gun in that person's name. That would be legal.

Same thing with StopTheGray's suggestion for having somebody collect money from individuals. As long as the person gathering contributions gets a separate payment from each person, along with name and address, that's fine. If, OTOH, the WCCM gets a single check from StopTheGrays for contributions he raised from others, that's not legal.

As for the $1000 limit that AJ mentioned, the limit is actually $10,000 annually to any combination of PAC's, candidate committees, political parties or referendum committees.

So, if a person wasn't contributing to any candidate or party, he/she could contribute $10,000 to the WCCM.

And MGLouie's opinion of WI politics is spot on. All of these restrictions are a real pain in the neck. It's very, very easy to run afoul of the law and not even know it.

By the way, the fund-raiser is July 18th. It looks like it will be at Klemerers on 104th and Oklahoma in Milwaukee. Cocktails will be at 5:30, dinner at 7:00, Ayoob at 8:00, and then we'll try to wrap up the silent auction items after that.

Also, we'll have certificates for Ayoob's LFI-I course in September for auction.

AJ, I'll also be hitting up the shops for things like SureFire lights, etc.

 

[AJ Dual]

$10,000?

And here I am thinking I've only got $9XX.xx to go to max out my contribution. Where's that "digging in the couch for change" smiley? I can't find it...

I'm trying to network for "fat cat" pro-gunners, but haven't found any yet. I've got one lead, but it's super-tenuous, some retired surgeon who's looking to insure his collection, but my father the insurance broker has to land him as a client first.

I'd like to volunteer if there's a need (and/or attend if that's not mutualy exclusive), Unless there's a unexpected wedding or a funeral on July 18th.

Check your PM's. After some not insignificant internal debate, I have something the WCCM can auction.

 

[Monkeyleg]

"I'm trying to network for "fat cat" pro-gunners, but haven't found any yet."

I've dusted off my Rolodex from years ago when Tom Reynolds first ran for congress. There were a few people with a lot of cash and very conservative views. A phone call, maybe thirty or forty minutes of talk, and I'd walk out with a check to Reynold's campaign for $1000.

I've since lost contact with those folks, so I've asked someone who's stayed in touch to give them a call.

Here's what really makes me want to puke, though:

This single banquet, and all of the effort put forth by all of the volunteers (some of you ARE volunteering, aren't you?) should net $10,000 to maybe $15,000. We're going to have Massad Ayoob fly in. We're going to have great food. We're going to have maybe $20,000 or more in guns for auction.

OTOH, Governor Doyle can send one of his flunkies down to Chicago to meet with a single exec from a road-building company, a utility company, a casino, or some other industry looking for favors. And, after a half an hour of happy talk, Doyle's flunkie walks out with a personal check for $10,000.

My gripe isn't with the person who writes out a $10K check to help elect a candidate who represents his interests. My gripe is with people who will spend nearly that amount or more on guns and ammo, but then kvetch about spending $75 to protect their interests.