I have nothing against the AR platforms, especially from Rock River. But, I would have to chalk one up to M1A. I suppose I'm a bit biased... I'm a sucker for milsurps and don't really like new black rifles (not that the M-14/M1A is any more military surplus than the M-16, or that much older for that matter). Call me old-fashioned, I guess.
Opinions Wanted: M1A Scout Squad or RRA 308
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madcratebuilder
Member
I would recommend the ArmaLite AR10A4, accurate past 800 yards, under 8lbs in weight. Optics friendly, great parts support. Same price range new and can be found under 1k used.
The M1A well need a few tweaks to get to the accuracy level of the AR10. It's optics unfriendly, requires more maintenance.
I love my M1A's but they are not as versatile as my AR10. From stock configurations to barrel changes the AR10 wins hands down.
charcoalburner
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Thanks to all who have chimed in. I'm still on the fence as to which one. I have even opened the choices up to include DPMS, and Armalite (possibly used). I had originally ruled out the DPMS due to the mag price issue and several reports of trouble and multiple trips back to the factory. Does anyone know if they have gotten these problems ironed out?
As for the M1A, it seems scoping it is a major expense/hassle. I have already been warned about the Springfield rifles not being completely milspec and thus causing issues with some scope mounts and accessories. I love the iron sights on the Springfields, but I'm getting older and those sights aren't as easy to use as they used to be.
Any help is appreciated!
As for the M1A, it seems scoping it is a major expense/hassle. I have already been warned about the Springfield rifles not being completely milspec and thus causing issues with some scope mounts and accessories. I love the iron sights on the Springfields, but I'm getting older and those sights aren't as easy to use as they used to be.
Any help is appreciated!
Z-Michigan
Member
The DPMS .308 rifles are generally good. I can't guarantee you won't get one that goes back to the factory, but that isn't standard procedure for them. And their mags are among the lowest price for any .308 option other than a PTR-91 (which you don't want). The DPMS .308 pattern has been around for something like 8 years now, so it's not exactly brand new. Mine (LR-308B) required a bit of break-in, but after not quite 100 rounds it's running reliably, and it's shooting better than I am - groups in the MOA range with a 4x scope and cheap FMJ ammo, off a bench. I'm going to put on a 3-9x scope and try some better ammo sometime in the coming year.
Scoping an M1A can be done without huge hassle, but it sure isn't as easy as having a picatinny rail integrated into the receiver. Scoping the various flattop ARs is about as easy as it gets.
Scoping an M1A can be done without huge hassle, but it sure isn't as easy as having a picatinny rail integrated into the receiver. Scoping the various flattop ARs is about as easy as it gets.
The easy way to mount optics on the M1A over the receiver have been solved.
http://www.bassettmachine.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHSMm6qcc9c
If you like a red dot sight such as an Aimpoint to co-witness with your iron sights, this might be of interest to you...
http://ultimak.com/m8.htm
( I just recently had the opportunity to handle one, and I will be adding the M8 rail to an LRB M14SA Tanker when I get back home.)
So easy that I blind caveman can do it.
I have had 2 different types of these Bassett mounts for well over a yr now, and both have performed as advertised. Simple, reliable, return to zero if the mount/optic combo is removed, then re-installed. ( I'm deployed now, and have one as a back up to what I'm using now on an M14 service rifle.)(Army Infantry since before the 1st war in the Gulf of Persia.)
It seems like you need to get a hold of both and see as to which rifle feels better in your mitts. Ergos, manual of arms, etc are slightly different between the 2, and one may fit you like a glove, while the other feels like a lopsided piece of 2x4. Both of the original designs were made for fighting, and both excel at it. While I feel that the M14 is the better tool for gunfighting, the AR may feel better for you. ( I have used both in fighting, and the AR types dont hold a candle to the M1A/M14, as I prefer it over the AR...... just as 5.56mm isn't even close to the 7.62x51mm is in terminal performance from the muzzle on out to the shooter's maximum effective range, cover reducing effects, etc....but thats a whole other topic......
Contrary to popular belief, a rifle does not require a pistol grip to be an effective weapon intended to be used in combat, defense, or hunting...... unless said pistol grip feels better for that specific person. The M1A/M14 allows a body to have either or. I prefer the older GI synthetic stocks personally, and also prefer them with 18ish bbls, such as the Scout model of M1A sports. ( I would avoid attempting to clear rooms by yourself regardless of the rifle of choice, as the reality of such endeavors is not pleasant, and even if you have a few buddies with you.)
So.... my vote may be towards the M1A Scout/Bush or M14S "Tanker", but still think that you should find out for yourself as to which one fits you best. I couldn't stop at 2, so .....
Having been familiar with the SR25 and M110 in past deployments, if your looking for utter reliability, then a well built M1A/M14S would be the route to go IMO. Hunting, fighting, SHTF, etc.... (I like the AR10 types for the range, but have not met one yet that I would trust for use as a defensive rifle.)
Quality magazines for the M1A run at around $20 to $25 each, and can be found rather easily on the net. I get mine from 44mag.com, as I know that they only sell the real CMI mags there, and if I have an issue with anything from them, they will make it right. ( Use the same mags at work in my issued M14, and they work dandy.)
Note: Not a gunbuilder, seller, scientist here. Just an "end user".
Good luck with your decision sir.
11B
http://www.bassettmachine.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHSMm6qcc9c
If you like a red dot sight such as an Aimpoint to co-witness with your iron sights, this might be of interest to you...
http://ultimak.com/m8.htm
( I just recently had the opportunity to handle one, and I will be adding the M8 rail to an LRB M14SA Tanker when I get back home.)
So easy that I blind caveman can do it.
I have had 2 different types of these Bassett mounts for well over a yr now, and both have performed as advertised. Simple, reliable, return to zero if the mount/optic combo is removed, then re-installed. ( I'm deployed now, and have one as a back up to what I'm using now on an M14 service rifle.)(Army Infantry since before the 1st war in the Gulf of Persia.)
It seems like you need to get a hold of both and see as to which rifle feels better in your mitts. Ergos, manual of arms, etc are slightly different between the 2, and one may fit you like a glove, while the other feels like a lopsided piece of 2x4. Both of the original designs were made for fighting, and both excel at it. While I feel that the M14 is the better tool for gunfighting, the AR may feel better for you. ( I have used both in fighting, and the AR types dont hold a candle to the M1A/M14, as I prefer it over the AR...... just as 5.56mm isn't even close to the 7.62x51mm is in terminal performance from the muzzle on out to the shooter's maximum effective range, cover reducing effects, etc....but thats a whole other topic......
Contrary to popular belief, a rifle does not require a pistol grip to be an effective weapon intended to be used in combat, defense, or hunting...... unless said pistol grip feels better for that specific person. The M1A/M14 allows a body to have either or. I prefer the older GI synthetic stocks personally, and also prefer them with 18ish bbls, such as the Scout model of M1A sports. ( I would avoid attempting to clear rooms by yourself regardless of the rifle of choice, as the reality of such endeavors is not pleasant, and even if you have a few buddies with you.)
So.... my vote may be towards the M1A Scout/Bush or M14S "Tanker", but still think that you should find out for yourself as to which one fits you best. I couldn't stop at 2, so .....
Having been familiar with the SR25 and M110 in past deployments, if your looking for utter reliability, then a well built M1A/M14S would be the route to go IMO. Hunting, fighting, SHTF, etc.... (I like the AR10 types for the range, but have not met one yet that I would trust for use as a defensive rifle.)
Quality magazines for the M1A run at around $20 to $25 each, and can be found rather easily on the net. I get mine from 44mag.com, as I know that they only sell the real CMI mags there, and if I have an issue with anything from them, they will make it right. ( Use the same mags at work in my issued M14, and they work dandy.)
Note: Not a gunbuilder, seller, scientist here. Just an "end user".
Good luck with your decision sir.
11B
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The Scout does come with a foward mounted rail, as well as the Socom16. It just depends on the type of optic desired, and personal preference. In order to utilize the scout mount, one must use an optic with enough eye relief for it to be effective if placed there. (holo sights, dot style reflex sights, "scout" scopes, or pistol scopes)
It also allows one to use the cartridge clip guide, as some types of receiver mounts use this as a mounting point, such as the ARMS#18.
A Bassett mount does not, but must be removed first in order to use the clip guide, but as long as the optic mounted to it is zeroed, it can be re-installed without loss of zero.
11B
It also allows one to use the cartridge clip guide, as some types of receiver mounts use this as a mounting point, such as the ARMS#18.
A Bassett mount does not, but must be removed first in order to use the clip guide, but as long as the optic mounted to it is zeroed, it can be re-installed without loss of zero.
11B
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Springfield Armory isn't the only game in town.
http://www.lrbarms.com/m14receivers.html
http://www.smithenterprise.com/
http://www.fulton-armory.com/
http://www.762mmfirearms.com/
http://www.jamesriverarmory.com/
All of the above build M14/S rifles with 18/18.5 in bbls, and chrome lined if you prefer. Other than the M14 service rifle, I have had my hands on all but the SEI, 762, and JRA M14S myself.
BTW.... If you come across a Norinco, or Polytech M14S rifle, please contact me via PM, as I am always on the lookout for another.
11B
http://www.lrbarms.com/m14receivers.html
http://www.smithenterprise.com/
http://www.fulton-armory.com/
http://www.762mmfirearms.com/
http://www.jamesriverarmory.com/
All of the above build M14/S rifles with 18/18.5 in bbls, and chrome lined if you prefer. Other than the M14 service rifle, I have had my hands on all but the SEI, 762, and JRA M14S myself.
BTW.... If you come across a Norinco, or Polytech M14S rifle, please contact me via PM, as I am always on the lookout for another.
11B
henschman
Member
charcoalburner said:
Mags are not an issue with DPMS now that both Magpul and C-products make quality mags for them at very reasonable prices. They are actually easier and cheaper to find mags for than Armalite now.
OK, I will give you that the M1A isn't quite as accurate out of the box or as optics-friendly, but how do you figure that an M1A requires more maintenance than an AR-10?madcratebuilder said:
Z-Michigan
Member
I'm not madcratebuilder, but owning examples of both guns, I see these as additional M1A maintenance items:
-unscrewing gas plug and cleaning piston
-more work to disassemble and reassemble compared to AR pattern
-if you have a glass bedded model, you basically can't do full disassembly without affecting accuracy, and serious shooters with glass bedding will often completely redo the bedding annually
The AR has the usual carbon accumulation, but it's super easy to take apart, wipe down and put back together.
An Armalite AR10A4 chambered for 7.62x51mm weighs in at 9lbs unloaded, and also sports a 20in bbl. Depending on the type of stock, an M1A Scout will weigh in at 8.5 to 9 lbs on average. The Scout also comes out of the box with iron sights, while the AR10 does not.
Overall length of the AR10A4 is at 41 inches, where as the Scout runs at 39.5 inches of OAL.
Edit: A 20rd M14 magazine topped off with 147gr M80 weighs exactly 1.5 lbs.
I find both of them easy to maintain myself.
11B
Overall length of the AR10A4 is at 41 inches, where as the Scout runs at 39.5 inches of OAL.
Edit: A 20rd M14 magazine topped off with 147gr M80 weighs exactly 1.5 lbs.
I find both of them easy to maintain myself.
11B
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I've thought about selling my national match and replacing it with a scout squad, and just mount a ~4x acog on the included rail. Scout squad seems like about the sweet spot as far as size and barrel length.The Scout does come with a foward mounted rail, as well as the Socom16. It just depends on the type of optic desired, and personal preference. In order to utilize the scout mount, one must use an optic with enough eye relief for it to be effective if placed there. (holo sights, dot style reflex sights, "scout" scopes, or pistol scopes)
It also allows one to use the cartridge clip guide, as some types of receiver mounts use this as a mounting point, such as the ARMS#18.
A Bassett mount does not, but must be removed first in order to use the clip guide, but as long as the optic mounted to it is zeroed, it can be re-installed without loss of zero.
11B
i have an ar15 and 2 m1a's i think cleaning the m1a is easier and faster. i have not weighed by m1a bush rifle with the usgi synthetic stock but it feels rather light compared to my ss loaded model. also most of the parts on my bush rifle, stock, bolt, oprod, trigger and a few smaller parts are all usgi. you never know with these rifles, older ones tend to have alot more usgi parts then newer ones, but not always. like one of the other posters said their are several companys making mill spec parts.
henschman
Member
Yeah, you have to occasionally pull the gas plug and clean the piston on an M-14... have you ever tried to clean the gas tube of an AR?
The star chamber isn't exactly easy to just wipe clean, either.
I'm with fragout. They both have their little quirks, but they are both actually pretty easy to disassemble and clean, especially compared to other designs.
lebowski, you cannot mount an ACOG on the forward scout rail. ACOGs have very short eye relief... even the models with the most eye relief only have something like 2.5". You would not get any kind of sight picture if you mounted it on the scout rail.
The star chamber isn't exactly easy to just wipe clean, either.
I'm with fragout. They both have their little quirks, but they are both actually pretty easy to disassemble and clean, especially compared to other designs.
lebowski, you cannot mount an ACOG on the forward scout rail. ACOGs have very short eye relief... even the models with the most eye relief only have something like 2.5". You would not get any kind of sight picture if you mounted it on the scout rail.
charcoalburner
Member
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- Aug 3, 2006
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Thanks again for all the posts. Question for you M1A owners; Springfield recommends only 7.62 x 51 NATO rounds be used due to the free floating firing pin and gas system on the M1A, do you only use the 7.62 NATO loads in your M1A? It is my understanding that using commercial ammo can lead to slam fires and also damaging pressures or stress on the op rod especially with heavier than 147 gr. bullets. What has been your experience?
AR platform shooters: Have you been able to use any load with your rifles or have particular ones given you trouble?
DPMS owners: Have you had any issues with your 308 rifle or has it been just fine out of the box?
fragout: Thank you sir for your service to our country! God bless you and keep you safe. Nice looking rifles you have there.
AR platform shooters: Have you been able to use any load with your rifles or have particular ones given you trouble?
DPMS owners: Have you had any issues with your 308 rifle or has it been just fine out of the box?
fragout: Thank you sir for your service to our country! God bless you and keep you safe.
Nice looking rifles you have there.FMJMIKE
Member
I was considering these two rifles too................ I went with the Armalite AR-10. It has a lifetime warranty, shoots 7.62 X 51 and .308 Winchester ammo and has a chrome lined barrel. Good Luck...............
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