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Opinions welcome 80% Derringer kit appealing?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Gunby, Jul 3, 2016.

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  1. Gunby

    Gunby Member

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    Hi folks- What is your opinion please. If a 80% D.I.Y. kit was available for the High Standard Double Derringer in 22LR and 22 Mag, would many buy it?

    Let's assume it looks really good like the original, blue or nickel.

    No hassle with an FFL of course,

    And-- the jig comes with it--all you need to finish the kit is a cordless drill.

    What would the kit sell for ?

    Happy Plinking! and thanks for your time
     

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  2. JSH1

    JSH1 Member

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    How much cheaper is this kit than a finished gun? I have no need for an off the books gun so it would come down to price for me.
     
  3. Gunby

    Gunby Member

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    80% High Standard DM-100

    Hmmm.. considering that a 1911 d.i.y. that is available would cost around $1,000 all up (more than off the shelf Remington)
    And that an AR15 D.I.Y. would be $800 to complete, when a smith&wesson M&P AR is under $600 off the shelf.--
    I would guess that the High Standard Derringer would be slightly higher than a like new used one on gunbroker--$500--since the item is no longer in production---with the jig and drills needed to complete the build.

    Thank you for responding!
     
  4. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    I can't imagine enough people buying it to make it economically feasible.
     
  5. GBExpat

    GBExpat Member

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    I think that very few would be purchased.
     
  6. barnbwt

    barnbwt member

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    They already make the JACO-style and Leinad derringer kits, if I'm not mistaken. It'd be a niche product, just like G3 flats, but there'd be a market for them. Assuming you'd be able to afford doing so, I'd do a test-run of like fifty kits & offer them for sale at the various builder sites and forums, and see how long it takes to move them. Quite often, the market for things like this is satisfied by about a dozen sales at a time, due to the small pool of potential buyers, so be prepared to invest in some marketing if you want a larger scale return than that.

    If you can afford to sit on a pile of these kits almost indefinitely, they will slowly sell at a fairly consistent rate, I'd bet. You just won't become a millionaire ;). Price for these things needs to be some fraction of the finished item, unless you again plan on using marketing to play up the desirability of 'making it yourself.' I'd start at 3/4 of the complete derringer's price and see how they move, then adjust accordingly; just make sure your manufacturing costs are well below that figure, so the venture is worth your while.

    BTW, If it requires nothing but drilling a couple jigged holes to complete, I doubt the ATF will determine it to be 'not a firearm,' unfortunately. If you know to the contrary, I'd be glad to hear it, but the ATF has long been opposed to guns that are too 'easy' to make (God forbid someone make a product that only takes ten times as long as calling up the local illicit gun dealer before embarking on a drug deal or robbery :rolleyes:)

    I agree. But if you look at The Flat Spot, any one of their product lines fall in the same category (esp the 80% steel-sheet weld together AR), yet together support a successful portfolio for a laser cutter business. I'll bet there are keychains that sell better than most of his items, yet he is indispensable to a fair number of home gun builders (the Suomi and PPSH magwells are very convenient)

    TCB
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2016
  7. Swing

    Swing Member

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    I'd likely buy one as I like DIY projects and those old HS derringers. I don't know how many others would these days and I'd imagine it would remain a very niche item.

    I too have some doubts the ATF would let something so close to being a firearm slide, but who knows.
     
  8. joem1945

    joem1945 Member

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    Not something I'd buy.
     
  9. JSH1

    JSH1 Member

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    $500 - no sale. It would need to be about the price of a NAA mini revolver for me to be at all interested. ($225-$250)
     
  10. Bobson

    Bobson Member

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    Agreed. Even then it's super niche. A cool niche, but niche all the same.
     
  11. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    It would have to be priced at or below $100 for me to have any interest whatever in that variety of ware.
     
  12. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    Gunby

    I also don't imagine the BATFE would look very favorably upon something that purportedly comes in under the radar while requiring just a cordless drill to complete. Would definitely want to see official documentation from BATFE saying that this can be done off the books.

    And $500 is way too much; would consider it maybe in the $200 to $250 range.
     
  13. Acera

    Acera Member

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    Well they don't have an issue with the polymer 80% AR lowers that only take a drill to finish. You can home-build an AR-15 type rifle for under $600. (80% Lower + Jig, bits, etc. $80, rifle parts kit $480.)

    Plenty of 'documentation' out there where 80% or less is well within the law, be it a small handgun like the OP describes, a knockoff of the Glock, 10-22, or other popular firearms that are easily made at home.

    AR-15 home build kits in .300 Blackout go for only $650, and that price includes the jigs, bits, barrel, all necessary parts, etc.

    You can even get everything you need to build a complete AR-10 rifle at home for about $1,100.



    ,
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2016
  14. Predator55

    Predator55 Member

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    I had one of the HS in 22 mag, nice little piece. Paid I think 100 and was offered 450 not long ago so it's gone. As mentioned prior I would opt for the NA mini with the larger grip. I have a feeling the kit wouldn't be that cheap.
     
  15. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    Really?:scrutiny:
    Post one ATF document or ruling where they mention "80%".
    The fact is... ATF doesn't use a percentage, only if the article in question is readily convertible to becoming a firearm.

    And as others have pointed out, a simple drilling out the barrel with a cordless drill isn't the same as assembling a an AR lower.

    If drilling out the "barrel" is all that needs done how are you going to machine that hole for rifling? I ask because you seem to be unaware that a handgun without a rifled barrel is an NFA firearm.....Any Other Weapon, requiring a $200 tax stamp to make.

    Kinda stupid to build an under the radar home built firearm, only to have to pay a tax stamp on it.:rolleyes:
     
  16. Acera

    Acera Member

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    Ok, the folks that make the 80% polymer AR lowers have this letter for theirs. So here is 'one'.
    http://www.polymer80.com/assets/images/AFT Letters/AR15 P80 Determination Letter.pdf

    https://www.atf.gov/file/11711/download


    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/what-“80”-or-“unfinished-receiver


    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/are...nfinished-or-80-receivers-actually-considered

    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/are-“80”-or-“unfinished”-receivers-illegal

    FYI, I view the term 80% as a generic term, that means not quite a firearm by law yet.

    Regarding the barrel issue you bring up, the glock like frames you finish on your own don't have a barrel, that is just an unregulated part you buy to put into your project.

    Haters gonna hate. If this ain't for you, you don't understand it, move on, I understand that this legal activity does not appeal to everyone.



    .
     
  17. barnbwt

    barnbwt member

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    The concern is more that the activity may not be legal at all (at least, the commercialization aspect of it; no worries about making a derringer for yourself whatsoever, so long as your barrels are rifled)

    TCB
     
  18. silicosys4

    silicosys4 Member

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    I would pay $100 for it.
    I wouldn't pay $150 though.

    The prices you quote for DIY guns are wildly off base.
    You can build a 1911 for much less than $1000,
    I just built a better AR than the M&P for less than $600,
    and you can find High Standard derringers for less than $300 online.

    All in all, a gun I have to finish myself I won't pay more than half of what I can buy that gun for new.
    Which is why I haven't bought an 80% AR receiver for $80...because I bought my last last finished AR receiver for $35.
    80% AR receivers make sense though, because you get a useful, multipurpose gun out of the deal...I don't consider a .22mag derringer to be particularly useful
     
  19. Gunby

    Gunby Member

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    Folks- it's here! It took the batf 18 months--non-firearm determination letter :) Pics can be seen at www.80percentderringers.com
    it is not for sale on the website though. Just talk about sales.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
  20. franktheitaliantank

    franktheitaliantank Member

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    I would prefer something bigger than a .22 and A LOT CHEAPER than $500... MAYBE if it was $100... just MAYBE, but probably not. As for $500 or even $250... No.
     
  21. Gunby

    Gunby Member

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    I saw one sell on g.b. 22 mag DM-100 for 350. The seller said a nickel plated one was coming--that was 2 months ago--to date nada
    Probably jacked the price up for the election scare
     
  22. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    Maybe a few... it's not a high demand item that has a questionable future. That's the big deal with AR15s, fear of ban/confiscation. The 1911 one is well beyond my understanding unless people think they can build a Les Baer quality gun for Kimber price. Single or double barrel pocket guns are not even on the radar for most folks.
     
  23. Gunby

    Gunby Member

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    I do actually - when I go out to a restaurant or somewhere that a lot of sitting is done I carry the DM-100 22 mag. in a pocket- slim little piece- no bulge- with a tucked in shirt one on the hip is pretty noticeable. I'm old schooler though- I know everyone must have a semi auto in case the hoard of thugs moves on them-
     
  24. entropy

    entropy Member

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    If I wanted one, I'd have kept the original I had, and I only paid $50 for that one. Pass.
     
  25. Mayvik

    Mayvik Member

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    Bluntly...hard to take your business seriously when you sell a brake shaped like a wang and your text is riddled with hyperbole and nonsense. Work on your marketing.
     
    Packman likes this.
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